Apple, Returning Overseas Cash, to Pay $38 Billion Tax Bill

[ElNono]

That's all bull . Very few understand the long term implications of our debt. I understand the short term implications of mine however.

It's not really that complicated. Inflation, first, followed by lower standards of living...

How is it unavoidable? What could I personally do to avoid it?

Who said you or the OP had to do anything personally? OP isn't celebrating she received a tax holiday, she's celebrating that Congress enacted a tax holiday that enabled Apple to skirt billions in taxes.

So yeah, it was avoidable, and it was wrong, IMO.

[DMC]

It's not really that complicated. Inflation, first, followed by lower standards of living...



Who said you or the OP had to do anything personally? OP isn't celebrating she received a tax holiday, she's celebrating that Congress enacted a tax holiday that enabled Apple to skirt billions in taxes.

So yeah, it was avoidable, and it was wrong, IMO.

All I can do is not buy Apple products. I don't own any. So from where I stand, if it puts more money in my pocket vs removing money from my pocket (all else being equal in my life), then it's not wrong.

[rmt]

who are you kidding? Those are data center jobs, not menial work. You can't seriously be this naive.

You still seem oblivious that the government is us. You and me.

You take 1/10th of the $100b they skirted *US* (you and me), put it on an infrastructure project, you employ just the same amount of people, benefit way more than 20000 people and you still have $90b to spare.

The argument that they wouldn't bring the money over is ridiculous, and nonsense. The only reason they don't pay what they're due is lack of enforcement and closing of loopholes. None of which this administration did (nor the previous one).

This is just another handout from the swamp to the well connected, too big to fail, while you and me are going to get audited to and back if we screw up a line on our tax return.

You really think that the government is us - you and me? What a joke if you think those two-faced politicians in DC represent us? Me? Do you think I would be shutting down the government over illegal immigrants? What don't you understand about - under the previous law at 39% no company in its right mind would bring back those billions. Now 15% is law - forget the old - that is no longer law. Why do you feel en led to it? IMO, money is best used in our and companies' hands - not the government - who take their "share" for their healthcare, pensions, "administrative costs", distribute to who knows what and wastes the rest.

[ElNono]

You really think that the government is us - you and me? What a joke if you think those two-faced politicians in DC represent us? Me? Do you think I would be shutting down the government over illegal immigrants? What don't you understand about - under the previous law at 39% no company in its right mind would bring back those billions. Now 15% is law - forget the old - that is no longer law. Why do you feel en led to it? IMO, money is best used in our and companies' hands - not the government - who take their "share" for their healthcare, pensions, "administrative costs", distribute to who knows what and wastes the rest.

For once, please get past the dogma, and actually read and learn something. This isn't about representation, it's about simple economics.

Let's start with basic math: 15% of $350b isn't $38b, it's $52.5b. So, right off the bat, we both know they've a "tax holiday" going on. But, regardless, that cash has been there prior to this law, and there's much more out there (to the tune of trillions) which should've been paid for, at the previous or current rate. Are you aware that US citizens that live overseas still have to report and pay US income taxes? I mean, even if you permanently moved. The rules should apply to everyone equally.

Second, as already explained above, every tax dollar that doesn't come in, gets covered with debt. The roads you use, the military that protects you, the education (that you opt not to use, but most people have to work and don't have a choice in that), etc etc etc gets paid with tax dollars or debt.

Remember when you mentioned how your children will have a huge debt burden on their shoulders? You did sound really worried about it. Well, this just put an extra burden on your children.

Third, there's a more complicated technical issue with economy in general, and I can go more into detail about it, but basically, when you have a small number of players hoarding the currency, that's not a healthy economy. That's primarily why taxation exists at all. As much as your dogma tells you that wealth redistribution is a bad thing, it's an integral part of any healthy economy. Taxation is the tool to do that.

Now that we have economy explained, let's circle back to representation: So these 'two-faced politicians in DC' that doesn't represent you put a higher burden on your children's future, and you're celebrating and hoping more of this happen???? Do you hate your children or something?

[ElNono]

All I can do is not buy Apple products. I don't own any. So from where I stand, if it puts more money in my pocket vs removing money from my pocket (all else being equal in my life), then it's not wrong.

At a personal level you can also vote to stop sending these guys over to DC. But what we can do personally doesn't preclude stating our opinions about something that's just plain wrong and us all up. This is one of those, IMO.

[rmt]

For once, please get past the dogma, and actually read and learn something. This isn't about representation, it's about simple economics.

Let's start with basic math: 15% of $350b isn't $38b, it's $52.5b. So, right off the bat, we both know they've a "tax holiday" going on. But, regardless, that cash has been there prior to this law, and there's much more out there (to the tune of trillions) which should've been paid for, at the previous or current rate. Are you aware that US citizens that live overseas still have to report and pay US income taxes? I mean, even if you permanently moved. The rules should apply to everyone equally.

Second, as already explained above, every tax dollar that doesn't come in, gets covered with debt. The roads you use, the military that protects you, the education (that you opt not to use, but most people have to work and don't have a choice in that), etc etc etc gets paid with tax dollars or debt.

Remember when you mentioned how your children will have a huge debt burden on their shoulders? You did sound really worried about it. Well, this just put an extra burden on your children.

Third, there's a more complicated technical issue with economy in general, and I can go more into detail about it, but basically, when you have a small number of players hoarding the currency, that's not a healthy economy. That's primarily why taxation exists at all. As much as your dogma tells you that wealth redistribution is a bad thing, it's an integral part of any healthy economy. Taxation is the tool to do that.

Now that we have economy explained, let's circle back to representation: So these 'two-faced politicians in DC' that doesn't represent you put a higher burden on your children's future, and you're celebrating and hoping more of this happen???? Do you hate your children or something?

Somewhat old: 6/17

Speaking to Bloomberg Businessweek, Cook said bringing that money back is "what's good for America." Cook suggested that a more reasonable percentage — 10 percent or 20 percent — repatriation should be required.

"The issue is not that there's a tax on international earnings. The issue is the existing tax has been crazy," Cook said. "No one would bring it back at a 40 percent—I mean, 35 percent federal and then state taxes. That's the problem. I think it's smart for the United States to have some kind of tax revenue for international earnings—if that tax were reasonable."

It's not the first time that Cook has suggested Apple has an unreasonable tax burden. With most of its $256.8 billion cash overseas, Apple has taken some creative measures to keep taxes low in places like Ireland.

15% of 256.8 billion (cash) = 38 billion - that's where (I guess) the tax amount articles are mentioning is from. Maybe the other $100 billion is for capital expenditures (for the 2nd campus, equipment) which may be deducted/written off immediately (don't quote me on this but I remember reading something like this). So I don't think there's any "tax holiday" - unless you're still stuck on the old 39% which as Tim Cook said above was never gonna come back.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/15/appl...atriation.html


Were you complaining or concerned about the country's debt when Obama was rolling out his shovel-ready jobs, $ in stimulus, Cash for Clunkers and whatever program they dreamed up? At least, we can see tangible results now in the stock market, data/numbers, and uptick in (future) jobs. I can also tell the difference from a year ago with the number of job emails for dh and when looking for intern jobs for ds (under Indeed "mechanical engineer intern") - shows up a lot more results than a year ago. The future is looking a little brighter but you are so underwhelmed by $350 billion in investment - it's like hoe-dee-hum-hum - just another day.

I am interested in the jobs (which is what such a huge investment [and hopefully more companies follow suit] will affect) - not what taxes the government gets - because very little is coming back to me. Other than keeping me safe (military), natural disasters (that local governments might not be able to handle and need outside help), and roads when I go on my yearly vacation, I'm not affected much by government - it's mostly I pay my taxes and file my return.


It's not my dogma telling me anything, it's my common sense/self-interest/human nature telling me that - after all, what is the use of working for something, if it's just going to be taken from you and given to someone else?


And please, must you sound so condescending? I took 4 eco classes in college - I don't need the economy explained to me. Regardless of what you say, I'm going to continue to vote and act in my and my kids' best future interests (and I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment whether individual or company) - which is the least taxes possible. If you are so enamored with the government getting what you consider their fair share, you are free to give them more of yours, but please keep your hands off mine.

[ElNono]

Somewhat old: 6/17

Speaking to Bloomberg Businessweek, Cook said bringing that money back is "what's good for America." Cook suggested that a more reasonable percentage — 10 percent or 20 percent — repatriation should be required.

"The issue is not that there's a tax on international earnings. The issue is the existing tax has been crazy," Cook said. "No one would bring it back at a 40 percent—I mean, 35 percent federal and then state taxes. That's the problem. I think it's smart for the United States to have some kind of tax revenue for international earnings—if that tax were reasonable."

It's not the first time that Cook has suggested Apple has an unreasonable tax burden. With most of its $256.8 billion cash overseas, Apple has taken some creative measures to keep taxes low in places like Ireland.

15% of 256.8 billion (cash) = 38 billion - that's where (I guess) the tax amount articles are mentioning is from. Maybe the other $100 billion is for capital expenditures (for the 2nd campus, equipment) which may be deducted/written off immediately (don't quote me on this but I remember reading something like this). So I don't think there's any "tax holiday" - unless you're still stuck on the old 39% which as Tim Cook said above was never gonna come back.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/15/appl...atriation.html

It's on the article you posted on the OP:

In its December approval of the most extensive tax-code revisions since 1986, Congress scrapped the previous international tax system for corporations -- an unusual arrangement that allowed companies to defer U.S. income taxes on foreign earnings until they returned the income to the U.S. That “deferral” provision led companies to stockpile an estimated $3.1 trillion offshore and many were criticized for the moves, including Apple.

By switching to a new system that’s designed to focus on domestic economic activity, congressional tax writers also imposed a two-tiered levy on that ac ulated foreign income: Cash will be taxed at 15.5 percent, less liquid assets at 8 percent. Companies can pay over eight years.


Like I said, it's a tax holiday for ac ulated foreign income. The only winners on this tax write off are Apple shareholders and the politicos that will get said money on their coffers in the next campaign.

Were you complaining or concerned about the country's debt when Obama was rolling out his shovel-ready jobs, $ in stimulus, Cash for Clunkers and whatever program they dreamed up? At least, we can see tangible results now in the stock market, data/numbers, and uptick in (future) jobs. I can also tell the difference from a year ago with the number of job emails for dh and when looking for intern jobs for ds (under Indeed "mechanical engineer intern") - shows up a lot more results than a year ago. The future is looking a little brighter but you are so underwhelmed by $350 billion in investment - it's like hoe-dee-hum-hum - just another day.

I am interested in the jobs (which is what such a huge investment [and hopefully more companies follow suit] will affect) - not what taxes the government gets - because very little is coming back to me. Other than keeping me safe (military), natural disasters (that local governments might not be able to handle and need outside help), and roads when I go on my yearly vacation, I'm not affected much by government - it's mostly I pay my taxes and file my return.


It's not my dogma telling me anything, it's my common sense/self-interest/human nature telling me that - after all, what is the use of working for something, if it's just going to be taken from you and given to someone else?


And please, must you sound so condescending? I took 4 eco classes in college - I don't need the economy explained to me. Regardless of what you say, I'm going to continue to vote and act in my and my kids' best future interests (and I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment whether individual or company) - which is the least taxes possible. If you are so enamored with the government getting what you consider their fair share, you are free to give them more of yours, but please keep your hands off mine.

As I repeated many times, I was (and I'm not) concerned about the debt because there's no signs of inflation. Heck, at the time, we had signs of deflation.

This idea that if the stock market is doing well, the economy is doing well, is another completely misguided take. The market actually went up 33% in the first 250 days of Obama as president, as opposed to 21% with Trump as president, which means it's an indicator of nothing really.

This isn't your 1970's market, where people actually invested long term in companies, companies got the funding to hire more and expand. Companies like Amazon, an incredible behemoth of our times has barely posted a quarter of profit or two in it's two decade of existence.

I'm not being condescending, I just look at your posts on this topic for a while now, and I have to guess you're either extremely clueless or incredibly hypocritical, tbh.

Being the swole guy I am, I choose to think you were just clueless (hey, it happens to all of us), and I genuinely tried to explain why we're all getting ed except for these guys, including your children, and there's nothing to celebrate about this. Obviously, I guessed incorrectly, tbh.

After all, why don't you try calling the IRS in the next few days, and telling them that following's Mr Cook's advice, you're going to pay this year's taxes whenever you want, and at the rate you think it's fair? Come back to us with the response, tbh.

Wrapping this up, if you don't think you, me, your children, etc are the government, why do you think the debt or deficits matter? It's not your debt, right? It's the government...

[ElNono]

Oh, and I pay my taxes every year, like stand up citizens do. I don't really have a choice, when the penalty is jail. But I'm no Tim Cook, tbh

[Th'Pusher]

It's on the article you posted on the OP:

In its December approval of the most extensive tax-code revisions since 1986, Congress scrapped the previous international tax system for corporations -- an unusual arrangement that allowed companies to defer U.S. income taxes on foreign earnings until they returned the income to the U.S. That “deferral” provision led companies to stockpile an estimated $3.1 trillion offshore and many were criticized for the moves, including Apple.

By switching to a new system that’s designed to focus on domestic economic activity, congressional tax writers also imposed a two-tiered levy on that ac ulated foreign income: Cash will be taxed at 15.5 percent, less liquid assets at 8 percent. Companies can pay over eight years.


Like I said, it's a tax holiday for ac ulated foreign income. The only winners on this tax write off are Apple shareholders and the politicos that will get said money on their coffers in the next campaign.



As I repeated many times, I was (and I'm not) concerned about the debt because there's no signs of inflation. Heck, at the time, we had signs of deflation.

This idea that if the stock market is doing well, the economy is doing well, is another completely misguided take. The market actually went up 33% in the first 250 days of Obama as president, as opposed to 21% with Trump as president, which means it's an indicator of nothing really.

This isn't your 1970's market, where people actually invested long term in companies, companies got the funding to hire more and expand. Companies like Amazon, an incredible behemoth of our times has barely posted a quarter of profit or two in it's two decade of existence.

I'm not being condescending, I just look at your posts on this topic for a while now, and I have to guess you're either extremely clueless or incredibly hypocritical, tbh.

Being the swole guy I am, I choose to think you were just clueless (hey, it happens to all of us), and I genuinely tried to explain why we're all getting ed except for these guys, including your children, and there's nothing to celebrate about this. Obviously, I guessed incorrectly, tbh.

After all, why don't you try calling the IRS in the next few days, and telling them that following's Mr Cook's advice, you're going to pay this year's taxes whenever you want, and at the rate you think it's fair? Come back to us with the response, tbh.

Wrapping this up, if you don't think you, me, your children, etc are the government, why do you think the debt or deficits matter? It's not your debt, right? It's the government...

You should ask DMC how he feels about the forced redistribution of wealth. That’ll be fun.

[rmt]

It's on the article you posted on the OP:

In its December approval of the most extensive tax-code revisions since 1986, Congress scrapped the previous international tax system for corporations -- an unusual arrangement that allowed companies to defer U.S. income taxes on foreign earnings until they returned the income to the U.S. That “deferral” provision led companies to stockpile an estimated $3.1 trillion offshore and many were criticized for the moves, including Apple.

By switching to a new system that’s designed to focus on domestic economic activity, congressional tax writers also imposed a two-tiered levy on that ac ulated foreign income: Cash will be taxed at 15.5 percent, less liquid assets at 8 percent. Companies can pay over eight years.


Like I said, it's a tax holiday for ac ulated foreign income. The only winners on this tax write off are Apple shareholders and the politicos that will get said money on their coffers in the next campaign.



As I repeated many times, I was (and I'm not) concerned about the debt because there's no signs of inflation. Heck, at the time, we had signs of deflation.

This idea that if the stock market is doing well, the economy is doing well, is another completely misguided take. The market actually went up 33% in the first 250 days of Obama as president, as opposed to 21% with Trump as president, which means it's an indicator of nothing really.

This isn't your 1970's market, where people actually invested long term in companies, companies got the funding to hire more and expand. Companies like Amazon, an incredible behemoth of our times has barely posted a quarter of profit or two in it's two decade of existence.

I'm not being condescending, I just look at your posts on this topic for a while now, and I have to guess you're either extremely clueless or incredibly hypocritical, tbh.

Being the swole guy I am, I choose to think you were just clueless (hey, it happens to all of us), and I genuinely tried to explain why we're all getting ed except for these guys, including your children, and there's nothing to celebrate about this. Obviously, I guessed incorrectly, tbh.

After all, why don't you try calling the IRS in the next few days, and telling them that following's Mr Cook's advice, you're going to pay this year's taxes whenever you want, and at the rate you think it's fair? Come back to us with the response, tbh.

Wrapping this up, if you don't think you, me, your children, etc are the government, why do you think the debt or deficits matter? It's not your debt, right? It's the government...

I have already explained that it is far more difficult for there to be a gain in the market when it's high than when it's low.

Look, you may research what are good companies, earnings and what not - everyone is en led to do what they think is best. My underlying philosophy is buy low, sell high. There is a reason Amazon stock is high - notwithstanding it's only one or two quarters of profit. I only have to see my own behavior trying to get away from Amazon and not being able to. People look at bit coin and think it's crazy because it's got nothing backing it but it has value in that people are willing to pay/buy it for $12k.

You can think I'm extremely clueless or incredibly hypocritical - I've been called far worse on this board - people can call me whatever.

Mr. Cook is doing his job - acting in the interest of his company and following the law as it NOW exists. And chances are, if you own any S&P 500 index fund, you're one of those Apple shareholders.

You still insist that we are the government - so what - we're "f*****g" ourselves? I don't consider myself the government, but I have no choice but to pay for their mismanagement, corruption and distribution of wealth (in taxes) since like you, I don't want to end up in jail. You can consider yourself the government (or anything you want) and so think that you're being cheated out of the taxes that this new law lowers.

[ElNono]

I have already explained that it is far more difficult for there to be a gain in the market when it's high than when it's low.

Look, you may research what are good companies, earnings and what not - everyone is en led to do what they think is best. My underlying philosophy is buy low, sell high. There is a reason Amazon stock is high - notwithstanding it's only one or two quarters of profit. I only have to see my own behavior trying to get away from Amazon and not being able to. People look at bit coin and think it's crazy because it's got nothing backing it but it has value in that people are willing to pay/buy it for $12k.

You can think I'm extremely clueless or incredibly hypocritical - I've been called far worse on this board - people can call me whatever.

Mr. Cook is doing his job - acting in the interest of his company and following the law as it NOW exists. And chances are, if you own any S&P 500 index fund, you're one of those Apple shareholders.

You still insist that we are the government - so what - we're "f*****g" ourselves? I don't consider myself the government, but I have no choice but to pay for their mismanagement, corruption and distribution of wealth (in taxes) since like you, I don't want to end up in jail. You can consider yourself the government (or anything you want) and so think that you're being cheated out of the taxes that this new law lowers.

So the national debt doesn't affect you or your children, right? Since it's government debt, not your debt?

Something's gotta give here, either it's your debt or it's not. If it's not, then why are you worried about it?

[ElNono]

Basically, we just added a bunch of billions of dollars to the debt for 20,000 jobs (over 5 years, but let's pretend all happen right now). Even if we 'only' added $5b (let's pretend we don't have to pay interest on it, etc) to the national credit card, that comes to... $250,000 per job

Bargain, tbh

[ElNono]

The good news is that Apple stockholders probably won't need to be looking for a job anytime soon either, tbh... there's also that.

[Th'Pusher]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...b0dc592a09697c

Paul Ryan collected $500k in Koch contentions after tax bill passed.

[boutons_deux]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...b0dc592a09697c

Paul Ryan collected $500k in Koch contentions after tax bill passed.

yawn, just the oligarchy paying off their s with pocket change

... is why Congress doesn't give a about voter preferences, while fulfilling all the preferences of the oligarchy, continuous confirmation of the the Princeton oligarchy study.

[Splits]

Jesus, EN giving rmt a painal ITT

[DMC]

At a personal level you can also vote to stop sending these guys over to DC. But what we can do personally doesn't preclude stating our opinions about something that's just plain wrong and us all up. This is one of those, IMO.

it doesnt matter who I vote for. just a feel good move.

[ElNono]

it doesnt matter who I vote for. just a feel good move.

true, tbh, same here... but it is one of the few tools we have...

[Th'Pusher]

it doesnt matter who I vote for. just a feel good move.

true, tbh, same here... but it is one of the few tools we have...

Maybe you two should become community organizers.

[boutons_deux]

"This isn't about representation"

Bull ing .

The oligarchy hired the Repug "representatives" to represent primarily, exclusively the oligarchy.

The oligarchy's Repug s are now polluting the Federal judiciary with extreme right wing, pro-oligarchy judges, a pollution which make the Federal judiciary a SuperFund site for decades.