Parker & Mills

[MaNu4Tres]

I explained this box score. It was pretty obvious why Murray was a net positive and TP was not. You are being results oriented. TP played with a terrible defensive crew that mis-fired on much better quality looks than Murray generated for his teammates.

And you keep pointing to RPM. Murray although a positive grades out as a non-starting level player. He has not been good. So dont confuse “playing better than Mills or TP” with “good”.

His offense is atrocious and there is reason to be concerned that over a bigger sample that positive RPM will decline if his offense doesn’t improve.

I'm aware Murray isn't a good half court offensive player. Never said he's good at that aspect. I think its an injustice to judge a players overall ability by how he handles a particular aspect of the game ( such as an PnR playmaker in half court offense).

He's actually been really solid in offensive transition, getting guys open looks and he's been very solid in defense, deflections, and rebounding and overall activity. His length disrupts the game in many ways on both ends on the boards, and on D. Those things make him a positive player, despite his flaws running a PnR or being unable to knock down an open 3.

Kind of like Tony Allen did for MEM but to a lesser extent. I.E.Tony Allen was an active force who made a bigger impact than a Brent Barry.

I'm not sold that Murray is the answer long term at PG, but as of now, he gives the team an edge if he starts with Green & Kawhi. That s elite perimeter D & length that makes a huge impact.

[DPG21920]

Well it makes an impact, wouldn’t say huge. The defense whether Murray was playing a lot or not was still in the top 3. The offense was not good.

It’s gotten so much more difficult for non-offensive players to make an impact. Tony Allen, etc, used to be able to do so more often. It’s still possible but it’s become more difficult to play 4 v 5 on offense. It really is a killer especially in the playoffs when teams can scheme.

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

[DPG21920]

And I think you are over simplifying his offensive issues. It’s not just a lack of PnR ability. Or lack of a 3PT shot. He literally has 0 offensive game. He can’t get into the paint. He can’t finish when he does get there. He has no post moves. He has no mid-range game. He has no 3PT shot.

It’s way more than just lacking some spacing due to a lack of 3PT shot. And PnR is a huge deal. I love that he gets SA to play a bit faster and can push tempo, but it does not happen often enough.

[MaNu4Tres]

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

[DPG21920]

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

So what does it say that Murray literally leads the nba in DRPM and still grades out overall as a non-starter?

[TD 21]

I think its an injustice to judge a players overall ability by how he handles a particular aspect of the game ( such as an PnR playmaker in half court offense).

Depends on role or what's needed. Right now, they need him to be the PnR playmaker in the starting lineup, so him not being able to do so is crippling. Not his fault so much as the reality of the predicament they've put themselves in.

Hopefully his starting is them showcasing him for Hornets.

Astute point about the rotation though (if this move is in perpetuity). If they ever get healthy, guessing Anderson would take the spot minute role that was previously available to Forbes / Bertans.

Parker / Mills / Ginobili is untenable defensively though. We saw it tonight, with Mills attempting to guard Oladipo. That should never happen.

Well it makes an impact, wouldn’t say huge. The defense whether Murray was playing a lot or not was still in the top 3. The offense was not good.

It’s gotten so much more difficult for non-offensive players to make an impact. Tony Allen, etc, used to be able to do so more often. It’s still possible but it’s become more difficult to play 4 v 5 on offense. It really is a killer especially in the playoffs when teams can scheme.

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

[DPG21920]

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

In the playoffs, in the modern NBA, Tony Allen tanks teams. Roberson does too unless there is a fluky shooting period. It’s hard to play non-offensive threats against good teams in this NBA.

You’ve seen this and SA has attacked this with other teams numerous times

[MaNu4Tres]

In the playoffs, in the modern NBA, Tony Allen tanks teams. Roberson does too unless there is a fluky shooting period. It’s hard to play non-offensive threats against good teams in this NBA.

You’ve seen this and SA has attacked this with other teams numerous times

I'm not expecting Murray to be a savior at all. I just think he's the logical choice with the crap they have to work with. He gives them the best chance over Tony/ Patty.

[DPG21920]

We will see. I want Murray to do well but I don’t see how he’s magically going to develop an offensive game mid-season when he sucks so bad there?

But ya, I agree with TP/Mills sucking he’s the best of the worst at this point and just have to hope Defense is so damn good that SA wins that way. Going to be interesting

[palangi]

This has to be the most expensive backup PG duo in league history. What a waste of money

[tholdren]

He actually was overall more impactful tonight. Only Spur in + in +/-.

You use plus minus youre not good at evaluating basketball. You might as well use ppg

[Ice009]

You use plus minus youre not good at evaluating basketball. You might as well use ppg

How about you tell us some of your thoughts on evaluating basketball. You seem to come off like you know what you're talking about, but you never elaborate or go in depth.

[BillMc]

Animatronic Frogger statue.
It will be glorious and nauseating at the same time.

[duncan2k5]

Good move starting Murray...Parker is getting worse as time goes on (same as last year), and murray can only get better...

[duncan2k5]

I explained this box score. It was pretty obvious why Murray was a net positive and TP was not. You are being results oriented. TP played with a terrible defensive crew that mis-fired on much better quality looks than Murray generated for his teammates.

And you keep pointing to RPM. Murray although a positive grades out as a non-starting level player. He has not been good. So dont confuse “playing better than Mills or TP” with “good”.

His offense is atrocious and there is reason to be concerned that over a bigger sample that positive RPM will decline if his offense doesn’t improve.

so why werent you saying this when Murray had to play with those same bench players? you didnt hold that against him...Parker routinely scores below double digits nowadays, and will get worse...his offense is predictable, that's why we get into slumps vs the better teams on the league...Parker is out there running the same pick and pop play from 2004...murray is more dynamic and has more to offer...plus he WILL get better...gets to the rim at will (which we NEED at this point)...he just needs to learn to take contact and finish instead of constantly doing that floater...and Pop needs to stop pulling him after every mistake...give him the confidence to open up his game and try things...if Kerr was pulling Curry when he pulled up from 40 on a fast break the first couple times he did it, curry wouldnt be the threat he is today

[SAGirl]

How about you tell us some of your thoughts on evaluating basketball. You seem to come off like you know what you're talking about, but you never elaborate or go in depth.

He is a troll.

[objective]

This has to be the most expensive backup PG duo in league history. What a waste of money

$26 million worth of two guys who aren't good enough to start on an NBA team. And can't defend. And Mills gets another three years.

It must take a remarkably poor job of managing the cap to have 25% of the cap committed to guys who aren't good enough to separate themselves from a second year player who can't shoot, won't shoot, can't finish, and can't take care of the ball at a high level.

[SAGirl]

$26 million worth of two guys who aren't good enough to start on an NBA team. And can't defend. And Mills gets another three years.

It must take a remarkably poor job of managing the cap to have 25% of the cap committed to guys who aren't good enough to separate themselves from a second year player who can't shoot, won't shoot, can't finish, and can't take care of the ball at a high level.

True. What a horrible summer Spurs had. Of course this only gets exposed bc Kawhi got injured. He would have carried this roster far had he been healthy and covered up the PG spot like he has done the past couple of seasons.

and that doesn’t even get to how they built a roster with 8 guards, only 2 playable bigs, a non nba player in Joffrey, a summer acquisition that has also been injured and was questionable when signed, etc.