A tank this late in the season will barely land them in the lottery.
I think you guy are overlooking the fact the backup SF is not capable of putting up the offense that the Spurs need at the position.
The past 4 years He's always alone, unguarded in the corner all the time and still passes up wide open shots.
Time to ship him out while trolls give him all-star votes and still think he's the next Magic Johnson...
Don't Jose and Rose have No trade clauses because they are one year deals?
hornets give up kemba for unloading howard and batum. they receive a ton of cap space, TT, expiring contracts/players that might agree to get bought out.
batum's contract is awful but cavs would at least move $50+ million that's due to shump and jr.
kemba, isiah
crowder, korver, wade
lebron, batum, green
love
howard, bogut
best case: they somehow win
worse case: lebron leaves but cavs still have draft pick, kemba for a year, and dwight would at least be an expiring contract
The idea of tanking for a team that already has 32 wins is weird to me, especially when that would mean they'd be tanking for the 14th or 15th pick. I still think even if the Spurs fall to the 4th seed the they'd at least make the second and the WCF if Leonard is back and the Spurs get the 3 seed.
If the Spurs aren't planning on resigning Green, for whatever reason, then it may make sense- in this tanking scenario- to move Danny to Cleveland for Frye, their 2018 1st (currently the 22nd pick) and Zizic/ Osman.
I wouldn't mind that trade. I don't really care about this Lost Season. Making it to the second round or WCF is not the goal. By trade and/or draft the Spurs need to focus on shedding the dead weight on the current roster and bringing in some talent to complement Kawhi. LMA does not. I think he is very expendable this off-season in order to improve Kawhi's supporting cast. Pop and RC should also be expendable, btw. This creaky offense built around two iso- players is pitiful.
I would really like to see that 50 game win streak continue even if we cannot get the ring.
Tbh, I am torn. The 50-win streak is pretty cool, but would that be a crutch that Pop could use to justify the typically minimal moves PATFO make to re-load the team? If so, maybe losing the streak would be a catalyst to shake things up.
Question: How low would the Spurs have to go in order for the Holts to replace Pop and RC?
Probably more a next season trade, but what about Noah’s crap contract + Knicks 1st for Pau?
I have been thinking about this and based on the recent Pop and players' interviews I think Pop is just focused on getting the guys that are injured back 100% healthy to try to put together a winning run when they are 100%.
The team not being whole, missing 2 top 3 scorers explains all that ails them, before they get to anyone or anything else.
Meantime, they are focused on Dijon's development, as well as trying to optimize the guys they have right now available. They will only be under pressure with a fully healthy team that is losing games and that has not happened this season. Also the significance of the injured players matters.
If Kawhi never gets health, this roster doesn't matter. It was built around him and he's missed over 40 games while most of the FEW he played he was insevere minutes restrictions and out of rhythm and not 100%.
Basically whatever they can do to advance the development of their young players who need experience and will struggle at times is about all they can do right now. I do wish that everyone gets healthy after the ASB else so we can really weigh in.
Last edited by SAGirl; 01-27-2018 at 09:38 PM.
no, their superstar game masked that the rest of the roster is very weak (logically this should have become clear in WCFgm1), they never created a list to maximize Kawhi's strengths
Not much lower. 1 ring in a decade with the amount of franchise players Sam Presti and the Pacers gave us? Inexcusable.
I'd think some albatross Danny G-League & Fathead extensions would seal the deal
Knicks would most likely stretch and waive him than give up a lottery pick. After this season, Noah is owed $37.8 million over the next two seasons but that means if they stretch him then they could divide that over the next five seasons at about $7.5 million a season, its not great for them but it beats chasing an bad idea [of signing him in the first place] with another [ giving up a possible lottery pick to be rid of him].
I do think they carry vestiges from another era...
But one has to think the guys they have signed, specially the FA were all about Kawhi bc if not, who?
Draft picks you basically get whoever is available at 30, 29, 28 from the list of guys they liked. One can criticize not getting Bell for example but that's basically a scouting deficiency if you want to criticize picks. It's always unknown if late picks will pan out anyways or how good they will be.
However FA signings like Patty and Pau.... One has to Think their shooting skill complements Kawhi. I don't like the Patty contract and have been critical of it, but I figured they think he complements Kiwi, same with getting shooting bigs to play with him so he has space... Without Kawhi some guys don't make sense... Like why pay Patty this much if you need ballhandlers and real playmakers? The only way they would feel comfortable about that I think is that they were planning on playing Kawhi on the ball a lot and needed off the ball players.
Kawhi not playing has exposed some deficiencies but they were deficiencies they could live with bc they were counting with Kawhi's game.
If they haven't built around Kiwi then who?
I wouldn't trade Pau for Noah and a 1st round pick, Pau is to valuable to this team at this point and the better player. Besides Noah potentially could get bought out and I hope he signs with Cavs (LOL).
Kawhi boosted the roster. He didn't mask . I don't know what people expected a Spurs team without Kawhi to look like, but third in the West without a top-five player from last year is pretty amazing. As far as the actual issues with the roster, Kawhi didn't mask those either. The lack of quality guard play and play-making was an issue when he was on the court too, and it cost the teams wins.
Speaks more to the degregation of the league than anything the Spurs have done specifically this season. The Spurs are 14-4 last two seasons with a double digit point differential without Kawhi. I don't know what team your watching out there but this year's team isn't even in the same zip code as the Spurs teams of the past two years. They're going backwards and after this past offseason, they don't have the cap space to fix it. Heck WITH Kawhi, they're only 5-4 which includes losses to the hapless Clippers who couldn't buy a win at the time, Dallas and Detroit. This is not a good basketball team.
The argument that the West sucks died a year ago. It's tougher than it has been in quite a while right now. Anyways, the team is way more talented than they were last year. They are hurt and may never get healthy. But if a "not good" basketball team can get ahead of several teams with multiple All-NBA --caliber guys it speaks to their relative talent level. Of course they aren't as good without Kawhi. And they aren't as good without Gay and without rhythm. Only dumbasses expected them to be. But for some reason, a lot of people DID expect them to be better than they are despite their injuries. And that's what's really stupid. You wanna talk about their lower 2K rating? I can get with you. You wanna say they have been bad this year? I think you're delusional.
What we are seeing now is that an MVP-caliber player is the difference between a contender and a top playoff team that is ultimately not a true contender. Who the woulda thunk it?
All of this. Those last 2 sentences seems to be lost on so many people here
Spurs still have their cash considerations to spend. I think they could pay enough to cover this year and next year's Joffrey deal with extra on top to a team with space or a trade exception.
Let me see if I get this straight.
Laughverne, > Dedmon?
BP3 > Simmons?
Parker 2017-18 > Parker 2017-18?
Bryn Forbes and Davis Bertans as KEY rotation players?
Paddy Mills is a pg
2017-18 Spurs > 2016-17 Spurs?
The king of delusion is call me delusional?
It takes a special kind of stupid to think this team is better than last Year's team. WITH or WITHOUT Kawhi, they aren't contenders. The rhythm aspect is dually noted Chinook however, you can put lipstick on a pick, but it's still a pig. No matter how the Spurs so choose to dress up their scrubs, they're still scrubs no matter how in rhythm they are.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 01-28-2018 at 12:40 AM.
Gay is better than Simmons and Dedmon combined, and since he will be taking those minutes, that's the better comparison. Forbes now is better than Forbes before, which is all that matter for a guy who figures to only get very situation minutes. However, yeah, he's at least as good as Simmons was. Jon wasn't good last year -- he just had a volume-shooting series against GS to get hype.Let me see if I get this straight.
Laughverne, > Dedmon?
BP3 > Simmons?
Parker 2017-18 > Parker 2017-18?
Bryn Forbes and Davis Bertans as KEY rotation players?
Paddy Mills is a pg
2017-18 Spurs > 2016-17 Spurs?
The king of delusion is call me delusional?
It takes a special kind of stupid to think this team is better than last Year's team. WITH or WITHOUT Kawhi, they aren't contenders. The rhythm aspect is dually noted Chinook however, you can put lipstick on a pick, but it's still a pig. No matter how the Spurs so choose to dress up their scrubs, they're still scrubs no matter how in rhythm they are.
Most of the things you're trying to laugh about are focused on the 9th-13th men on the roster. Of course those guys aren't as good as the rotation players of last year -- they aren't competing with those guys. Again, trying to criticize the team's performance this year given how much they are playing their deep bench is really dumb. Pretty much no other team (besides Golden State and maybe Boston and Houston for spurts) is going to win games missing their top guy and multiple other rotation players. If you told anyone before this year began that the team would be where they are now with Kawhi missing half the season, not even optimists like BSF would have believed it. That's why it's utter bull to see the same krew try to clam victory now.
They want to say "This team without Kawhi won't get out of the second round
Your infatuation with Rudy Gay is quite alarming considering he isn't healthy and hasn't been for quite some time. Of course, that should come as a surprise to no one since his entire career has been marred by injury. The Rudy Gay you know and love is s career stat padder who's only playoff appearance was due in large part to him being out of the lineup, and when he came back, they promptly got bounced out in the first round. Better than Simmons? Who the isn't? Better than Dedmon, It's debatable and in some cases situational.Gay is better than Simmons and Dedmon combined, and since he will be taking those minutes, that's the better comparison. Forbes now is better than Forbes before, which is all that matter for a guy who figures to only get very situation minutes. However, yeah, he's at least as good as Simmons was. Jon wasn't good last year -- he just had a volume-shooting series against GS to get hype.
Most of the things you're trying to laugh about are focused on the 9th-13th men on the roster. Of course those guys aren't as good as the rotation players of last year -- they aren't competing with those guys. Again, trying to criticize the team's performance this year given how much they are playing their deep bench is really dumb. Pretty much no other team (besides Golden State and maybe Boston and Houston for spurts) is going to win games missing their top guy and multiple other rotation players. If you told anyone before this year began that the team would be where they are now with Kawhi missing half the season, not even optimists like BSF would have believed it. That's why it's utter bull to see the same krew try to clam victory now.
They want to say "
Forbes 'before' was unplayable, Forbes 'now' is virtually unplayable. I guess you've got me there though he's still a scrub and he's receiving regular rotation minutes and in some cases, closing games even with a healthy Ginobili. That doesn't sound like guy who's getting situational minutes..
I remember back during the 2016 season, I criticized Pop for his regular season rotations and I was reassured by many of the know-it-alls that it was just the regular season and when the playoffs came, it would be a different story. Yeah, and then the OKC series happened. I know you think that the 9-13 guys on the roster won't be impactful when the season matters but we've seen from past experiences that this isn't the case. Pop always plays a deep bench and this team is far less compe ive than in year's past when they've had to stretch the bench to win games. Nobody said they have to win all their games but to have a bottom third offense, a losing record on the road, getting clowned against .500 teams at home, losing to the Hawks, getting slapped by the Lakers and getting pummeled by the Orlando Magic. No Leonard, but they still have All-Star Aldridge and Pau Gasol on the court. There's zero excuses for losing to some of the worst teams in the league because Kawhi didn't play. And if that is the case, then that's all the vindication one needs to realize this roster beyond Kawhi really stinks.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 01-28-2018 at 04:35 AM.
I would think too, but the reporting seems to be that they are trying to shed his salary, teams asking for the pick, and Knicks saying no at this point. I think it’s probably a next season thing, but an interesting prossibility given the flexibility of Pau’s last year, and the spurs needed to show Leonard something.
The other similarly situated team is Phoenix with right combo of picks and bad contract long term (Brandon knight).
Unless they're feeling the heat from Leonard, I fully expect them to do nothing and blame their impending 1st or 2nd round flameout on either injuries or lack of rhythm due to them.That doesn't at all explain what ails them. Leonard and Gay are ISO scorers. With how putrid this offense is, that will obviously help somewhat, but what really ails them is the lack of a player who can break down the defense and create for others.
That is a typical star trade though (pick, prospect, veteran, long term salary relief). Sure, Murray isn't as good or at least doesn't have the cache of the typical prospect in a star package, but Walker is a lesser star playing the league's most saturated position and they're determined to rid themselves of a bloated contract in the process.
They can fool the blind faith and casuals with this 61 win, up 25 vs Warriors in game 1, but the realistic fans and people who cover the league know this gaping hole prevents them from being taken seriously.
I don't think the team was built around Leonard. I think the team was built with, in their mind, the best talent they thought fit into their precious culture / "system", who they could afford and were willing to play here. As good as Leonard is, he's not Jordan or James and even them, in the current state of the league, wouldn't be contending for a championship without another perimeter star.
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