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i've been pleased with his progression since the move to the starting unit; there is nothing better for a younger player than not having to look over your shoulder.
Exactly. Fox doesn’t shoot 6 for 6 from deep most nights but people take him outperforming from deep by 9-12 points as a reason to jump to conclusions about Murray. Seriously...
While we’re playing this game, how about all those boards Fox grabbed? All zero of them. Also 2x the assists. And if all we do is care about shooting, Murray didn’t miss. And Forbes shot almost as well as Fox.
i've been pleased with his progression since the move to the starting unit; there is nothing better for a younger player than not having to look over your shoulder.
Most of the things in here are bull though. Murray does look scared to shoot sometimes, and tonight he was doing a lot of tentative side to side and not much "going downhill", tbh.
That's my only problem with Murray right now: he needs to start being more aggressive.
I want to see Murray attack the rim more. He spent way too much time on the perimeter. I'm okay with an above-average TO rate if he would put more pressure on the defense with his speed and length, draw some fouls.
Lol spurstalk
Pop's going to do the right thing and give Murray at least until the ASB to evaluate him, but so far, it hasn't been the jumpstart we were hoping for. His offensive problems are obvious, and he's not nearly as good defensively as his stats suggest (to the point that it almost calls the whole system into question). He looks like he'll be a fine NBA player, but he's not there yet. Not all that close at all.
Starting lineups continue to put the team on devastating holes that we don't have enough talent to overcome throughout the game.
I like the kid, but having him, Fathead, Green, and Bertans start together is where basketball and shooting goes to die
One player moving into the SL isn't going to jump start anything unless they're a star. Are you expecting him to be that?
This team has too many one dimensional role players..just look at the point differential..the lowest since 96/97.
Murray actually grades out 21st in RPM out of all PGs.
Patty 49th..
Tony 81st.
Murray is the best option right now, but he's not the star to pick up the whole team.
I didn't expect him to do that. I also didn't expect him to start. Pop is clearly looking for anything he can do get the team back on track mentally.
My point about him though is that the gap between how good his stats suggest he is and how good he actually is is so wide that it almost breaks the system.
Rpm doesnt mean anything. Get that through your thick skull
Wow. Being awesome and making your team look like dog . Stupid stat
The way we shoot, there’s a lot of rebounds to grab.
There is no choice... when Patty or Tony aren't clearly better, they did the right thing to see what they have in him.
That was exactly what Pop said when they promoted him to starter "again," that he's a young talent and they intended to find out exactly what they have there.
Part of my comment about Pop being between a "rock and a hard place" is that they have an iden y crisis between a team that wants to contend and win right now and thus have signed up really really really old WIN NOW players, while at the same time being a team that needs to develop. They need young talent period. But they are half assing it bc if they are developing they aren't doing it right. You know what I mean? and their win now players aren't clearly enough which is why Pop has to develop.
see the rock and the hard place?
Murray is the best choice... Let's not pretend as if we were good with patty and Tony starting... Our worse scoring game was with Tony a starter... We scored enough to win... One of our issues is that our big are soft defensively, and are horrible rebounders
Well I'm glad you weren't expecting that like your post implied
And not everyone goes by the Chinook gospel. Your player analysis is just that -- your player analysis. I.E -- I never agreed with your gospel when you said Simmons wasn't a NBA player or when you were adamant about how the Spurs should sign Sullinger to a 4 year deal 2 summers ago. And this is just another one of your analysis that I disagree with.
I think Murray is as good as his stats suggest -- especially defensively and he's getting better and better on the offensive end. His stats since coming into the starting lineup: 10 points 9 boards 5 assists on 47% shooting.
Here are a few other stats:
When Dejounte Murray is on the court, Spurs give up 96pp/100 (1st defensively in NBA)
When Dejounte Murray is off the court, Spurs give up 104.8pp/100 (12th defensively in NBA)
Offensively, Spurs are only 2.7pp/100 worse with Dejounte, and remember they are 8.8pp/100 better defensively.
Spurs are a significantly better team defensively with Murray on the floor compared to when Tony or Mills are on the floor. And on offense, the separation gap isn't nearly as wide between DeJounte and TP/Mills.
People say defense isn't the problem overall because Spurs have the 2nd best D. These same people are oblivious to context, as a large part of that ranking is because of Murray playing and on the floor, not Tony or Patty.
The reason why the gap isn't as big on the offensive end is because the volume of offensive possessions for TP, Mills, DeJounte isn't as significant as most PGs in the NBA. They are all utilized off ball just as much as they are in PnR. And recently, if you watch the games, when Murray goes to the weakside of the floor he floats to the dunker spot, where he can have an advantage on the offensive glass or he can be the beneficiary of a drive and dish. Not to mention DeJounte making his defender (usually a PG) the interior defender to strong side penetration. As this all happens, the other big, whether it be Pau or Bertans -- they float to the 3 point line to still provide the spacing.
Is DeJounte a finished product? Not even close. Does he have work to do still? Of course he does. But as of now, he's clearly the best option for the Spurs as he's already made the leap over Tony and Patty and he's only 21 years old. His dribbling has gotten better, he's been finishing better lately, he works his ass off defensively and it shows in his advance stats as he's number 1 in DRPM for PGs in the NBA and how he's top 5 in the NBA in overall DRTG.'
Murray has been one of the few bright spots this season. He could have taken a nosedive into his sop re season but he's progressed pretty nicely and he has improved. He's made the leap over Tony and Patty and Spurs desperately needed this positive sign as he is their best prospect in the pipeline.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 02-04-2018 at 09:48 AM.
Who was primarily responsible for guarding Rubio last night?
advanced stats >>> watch games = logic spurstalk
Did you watch the game? How did Rubio score most of his points with Murray on him?
If you watched the game, Murray was going under on the screens and Rubio was hitting all of his outside shots from 17-26 feet out -- something he hasn't been able to do his whole career. If you don't believe me, go back and read the play by play. On top of that Rubio played 13 extra minutes with Murray not on the floor.
Variance is part of the game.
So youre saying that since murray is so great at d, he let a ty shooter like rubio get imto a rhythm and instead of fixing his error he kept doing the same thing?
Murray is garbage. Hes the poorest mans verion of westbrook flailing through the lane but then he avoids all cantact and throws up a terrible percentage shot.
Can he rebound. Yep. But are 7 rebounds a game really worth his overrated d, his inability to score, pass or run any type of controlled offense?
Destroyed by ball and rubio. And he has literally gone coast to coast where the end result was him dribbling it out of bounds. Will he get better, yep. The nba talent is so bad this guy is in the league. Kind of a joke
I was just pointing out that Rubio was guarded for the most part by Murray. He didn't adjust very well. And his D stats took a big hit last night.
Can't be too results oriented over one game. You typically want to turn Rubio into a jump shooter 10 times out of 10.
Sounds like the fish I'd play in online poker back in the day. Running so well over a small sample of 50-100 hands, in that spot heads up over the long run they get crushed ( Like Rubio if all he does is take 17-26 foot jumpers ).
One game doesn't really effect his D stats for the year.
Yes, you typically want to turn Rubio into a jumpshooter. But within a single game when he is going off like Curry, you have to adjust.
I didn't imply anything about my own expectations. I said that we were hoping for a jumpstart. If you weren't, I don't know what to tell you. Getting rid of Jefferson did not make the team better because of much on the court. But it totally jumpstarted the other players. In that same way, I think Pop was looking for a spark to break the malaise his guys are in. It didn't work. I didn't expect it to, but of course, I was hopeful.
I love the ad homenims you tossed in here while trying to seem placating. Outside of those, this line pretty much means nothing. Obviously, we're giving opinions here. That's never been forgotten, so I don't know why you'd restate that.And not everyone goes by the Chinook gospel. Your player analysis is just that -- your player analysis. I.E -- I never agreed with your gospel when you said Simmons wasn't a NBA player or when you were adamant about how the Spurs should sign Sullinger to a 4 year deal 2 summers ago. And this is just another one of your analysis that I disagree with.
I don't think Murray is as good as the stats say. I think he is a mediocre one-on-one defender who gets schooled by any competent guard save Lowry the first time. He can't contest without fouling. He's so tall that he shouldn't leave his feet or reach nearly as much as he does. Guys would have a hard time shooting over him straight up. Offensively, he's not as big of a disaster with the ball as he was the start the season, but he's completely dependent on his inconsistent shooting. He's a bad streaky shooter. When his floaters go in, he looks great. But when he's missing layups and tip-ins, he looks really bad. His lack of spacing has totally hurt the offense. Way too many times, he gets the pass out to the perimeter and passes up an open shot just to try to make another play. He can't be such a bad shooter that he can't can shots at at least a 30-percent rate. That's not good enough, but at least he would be doing more than he currently does.
Rebounding is by far the biggest misnomer for him. The team is just not built for a PG to go for some many offensive boards. He needs to be above the FTLE to help in transition. That's especially true in the current SL Kyle and Pau. Him being down there automatically means at least one of the two primary break defenders will be a slow-footed guy. It's not likely to get any better when Kawhi comes back, because not only is Leonard not particularly strong in transition D as it is, but (and this probably feeds into the last point quite a bit), he also spends a significant portion of his time below the FTLE. For everything to work, Pau has to sit for a legit wing (as in not a combo-forward). Otherwise, the D will remain as exploitable as it's been all season.
Does any of that mean that I think Murray is a bad player? No. I think he's learning to play the right way and is a better play-maker than a lot of folks here are willing to admit. And there were times last night when DeJounte, Danny and Kyle were snatching all these passes from Utah, and you could see what the team could become defensively if everything works out. But the stats make it seem like PG isn't a problem for the team, and it very clearly is. Right now, Murray is not good enough to lock down that position. By far, the best play on action outside of a roster move is for Pop to just hope someone is playing well when the time comes. Tony and Patty have spurts when they are significantly more impactful than Murray, whether the stats detect it or not. There's something to be said about really being able to run an offense, and Patty is the only guy on the team who can seriously get shots off curls. The team needs that more than anything else right now (other than Kawhi coming back). They need Tony to give them a series like Memphis and for Patty to give the bench some points. It's just the way it is, and no amount of plus-minuses and on-offs will change that.
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