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Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with pretty much everything you've said.
Great thread. Finally some real substantive basketball talk.
Excellent points from both sides posted here. I have to side on being sure he’s the same player he was before his WCF injury. Anything short of that and his contract will wreak havoc on the roster makeup. Wall In Washington got that bloated figure and he’s proven to be injury plagued (and vastly overrated to begin with).
As for Leonard and possible ill will he'd have towards management, not sure how credible that would be seeing as how he's making 18m this season having missed nearly all the games. At a certain point you gotta earn your keep, a principle exemplified magnificently by the previous franchise player in SA.
The Mysterious Injury of 2017-2018 is baffling beyond belief. Knowing the makeup of how this front office operates, I cannot possibly see an offering of the max this summer. Ball is in Leonard's court. He has to overcome his hesitancy and earn that extension starting in April and May. Anything short of a deep second round run and he will have to prove it in 2018-2019. That's my opinion as well.
Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with pretty much everything you've said.
I find it strange that he has not once commented on this injury given the fact that he hasn’t played pretty all season. I get the whole, “he’s shy” thing, but not one word from him makes it strange. Apparently he really is Di’scon from the rest of the team. I’m okay with not being the vocal type of leader, but a leader should be somewhat connected to the team. Duncan wasn’t very vocal and didn’t care about the spotlight, but you could tell he had a good relationship with his teammates. I honestly don’t see that with Kawhi.
This makes sense to me.
I think a lot of people are frustrated about not hearing anything. Hopefully the next thing we hear is ‘I’m feeling great and ready to play!’
One point I ain't clear about. What is the disagreement on the treatment about? I get a feeling the Spurs claim he should be good to go based on medical reports yet Kawhi 's camp is saying that he is not ready. Buford dropped a comment as in how TP had the same injury and recovered fine even though he is much older. I would not think he would have dropped that comment innocently.
On the other hand it could be the opposite, Leonard wanting to play and PATFO holding him back. For some reason I don't think that's the case.
The real issue here is the lack of clarity on where he is at with his injury. My gut feel tells me the Spurs think Leonard is playing games. Any takes?
These are all very legit questions that I've wanted to know the answers to since stuff leaked about him being disconnected. I'm not sure which is the answer, or if there are multiple answers. I don't think anyone on Spurstalk would know the truth on what is going on for sure.
Last edited by Ice009; 02-12-2018 at 04:11 AM.
I'd like to think I'm a great Spurs fan. From supporting the team in any way. My car, everything is covered in spurs stuff. I have at least 8 spurs jerseys, 7 had, blankets, scarfs, house shoes, been to gms, an I buy team pass every yr. I've invested alot of time an money into the Spurs. No, I'm nothing special buy I'm sure alot of fans feels the same. Not only Kawhi, I'm disappoint in Spurs!!! I seriously thought they was a better organizations than this. I was just getting over Pop pulling the ing "Rest" card in April on my birthday against the Mavs. I paid $616 for 2 tickets an only got to see Brent Forbes, Kyle Anderson, Mills, an Simmons. This the Spurs are a great organization is getting old. Kawhi can't play the whole season over ing cramps... while people who's had surgery is back in mths. But what do I know, I'm just a ranting fan who's watched basketball for 25yrs.
Kawhi is getting and should deserve the max...the guy was the best player in the league IMO despite the media fellating durant for going to tje warriors and winning as easy chip...kawhi was jordan levels of great on offensive potential, and better than pippen defensively...dont be stupid and play cute...the warriors and MAYBE the bucks are the only teams that wont trade their best player to get kawhi
You lowball him for being injured and risk him leaving is the stupidest move we can do
You give him the supermax and deal with it later. They’re not competing without him ... you either have a healthy Kawhi or a Kawhi clogging up the books allowing the team to tank.
Letting him walk in FA and filling the books with Patty and Pau types is going to be a recipe for first round exits in perpetuity. Same with the yield you would get back in a trade right now. So roll the dice.
So what do you do if he's a s of himself and is constantly injured, or if this current injury keeps reoccurring year after year? What do you do with that 200+ million contract you signed him to? You ever thought about that?
The Spurs can't blindly just sign him to that amount of money until they see if he's recovered first IMO. The Spurs ed up with Mills and Gasol contracts, but you can't compound those mistakes by giving out 200M plus to a guy if you haven't seen him recover and play well coming off of this injury. If he plays this season and shows to be the player we saw last season, then you do in no questions asked. But if he doesn't play at all the rest of this season, I'm just not sure on handing out that money without seeing if he's recovered first.
Who said anything about filling in his roster spot with Gasol and Mills type of players? You can try and trade those guys, but if you can't trade them, do you really think the Spurs wouldn't be able to sign another star player with Kawhi's slot? You don't think they can get another star player to sign if they have a max slot open?
Well any way you cut it, this is what PATFO are up against. I think everyone here understands his value to the team and wants him here as our franchise player for his carreer. That being said if you wrap up the lion’s share of your money in someone who is not able to play an 82 game season then selling tickets will be the issue. Get well soon Kawhi! Some people on here seem to be forgetting he is under contract in 2028/2019. He isn’t a free agent. If the worst case scenario plays out and he doesn’t play this season then you re-evaluate next season and negotiate accordingly.
How so? Whats your game plan if Kawhi can't come back the way he was before that makes the Spurs championship caliber? There is literally nothing they can do to win a ring if Leonard is done until they draft another top 5 player.
You pay it to him while the team tanks and racks up lottery picks for a few years the way the Sixers have done. What do you care if he's making more than he should at that point? What does it hurt?
The best player the Spurs have ever been able to Lure here is LA. He's not good enough to build around. The only player in recent history that led to a championship through free agency is Lebron James. Before then you an say KG and Ray Allen, but Boston already had a franchise player in Pierce. You don't build a championship team through free agency unless you get the best player in the league and San Antonio has had a hard enough time getting much worse players to come here and will have a very hard time competing with other markets in that direction.
It ignores the history of free agency.
They've lured 0 superstars and 1 star in 2 decades worth of being the most successful franchise in professional sports and even then, they barely fended off a bottom feeder; likely winning out because they were essentially home.
There's about 9 certified superstars currently in the league and give or take that many at any given time. If they couldn't lure one in the Duncan era and so far have been unable to do so in the Leonard era (and if he extends, who really believes that's changing?), what makes you think they'd be able to without the latter?
TD21 is right. Unless the Spurs were GSW status (an almost guaranteed shot at the Finals), then no bonafide star is going to come to SA.
There's about 9 certified superstars currently in the league and give or take that many at any given time. If they couldn't lure one in the Duncan era and so far have been unable to do so in the Leonard era (and if he extends, who really believes that's changing?), what makes you think they'd be able to without the latter?
A star is going to look at 1) either getting a ring or 2) going to some city that's fun for a young black millionaire to live in.
San Antonio just doesn't make the cut.
Especially if Leonard is gone.
Agree with this 100%
pay him the supermax and deal with the consequences later.
If he doesn’t comeback from this injury I would do a sign and trade for an upcoming star and a high draft pick or picks.
but if he doesn't come back his value plummets
There are teams/owners dumb enough to trade for him and that would value him high. There is always one out there who falls in love with a certain player that would do anything to get that player on his/her team. I honestly hope it doesn’t come down to the Spurs trading him and hope he returns this season, but if he doesn’t the Spurs won’t have any problem trading him and getting back someone great in return.
OK, I think you guys have convinced me. They're going to have to do it through the draft as they're not likely to lure anyone here, so I guess if Kawhi can't play, they can still get talent through the draft and rebuild that way.
Do you mean if he doesn't return this season? You want to trade him before next season starts and not even offer the Supermax? You don't want to see how he plays next season before making the trade?
I would still keep him if he's upset and doesn't want to re-sign, you gotta let him play next season and up his trade value. I think if he doesn't come back and you try and trade him before anyone sees him play, then his value would be at the lowest point. Not the best time to trade IMO. When do you guys think would be the best time to trade him value wise if it ever came to that?
Anyway, I'd rather Kawhi come back healthy and stay. I hate talking about this stuff.
It's not easy to build through the draft. Spurs have lucked out in the past with Robinson,Duncan, and then Kawhi. I look at my home team the Hornets who have been in the lottery a bunch of time since coming back to Charlotte in '04 and how they have yet to have been able to draft a superstar in the draft. Since '04 the Hornets have made only 3 playoff appearances and have had 13 lottery picks. The best pick they have made out of those 13 lottery picks is Kemba Walker and he's not even close to being a superstar.
So what do you suggest the Spurs do? Despite some of their ty picks late in the draft the past 10 years or so, I still think the Spurs would do better with a higher pick that most other NBA teams. The Spurs are likely to pick someone they believe they can develop into a good/great player. Other teams might pick the same player, but they may not be able to get as much of his potential out as the Spurs can.
Well I can’t see this team tanking and rebuilding. I also can’t see Kawhi not returning to basketball and having a great season next year if he doesn’t return after the ASB. We are about to find out if he’s coming back this season.
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