Who was convinced the Spurs were going to win it all in 1995?

[kingmalaki]

It’s easy to double off of people you know aren’t going to make you pay for sagging off of them to defensively crowd the one player that can. You haven’t legitimized the efficacy of that defensive scheme, but that is precisely why it was easy to nullify the Spurs in the post-season during Robinson’s pre-Duncan, pre-Pop years.

So they only doubled off of these people in the playoffs and not the regular season? His teammates were able to make shots in the regular season then all became non-threats in the playoffs, for the overwhelming majority of his career? Like, every year almost, because Robinson was worse in the postseason almost every year. Stop blaming others for the decrease in his individual level of play.

Olajuwon’s deepest runs required critical shots from clutch players that made their inside-outside game dangerous.

But even when he wasn't making deep runs he wasn't routinely playing worse in the playoffs, even with garbage teammates. Robinson was. When Robinson won MVP in 95 he made 53% of his shots in the regular season. He only made 45% of his shots in the playoffs. 43% in round 1, 45% in round 2 and 45% in round 3. Stop blaming others for his decreased level of play.

Robinson did not have that luxury which is why you desparately want to assert that he wasn’t double or triple teamed in the playoffs. He was definitely double-teamed and triple-teamed on almost every possession in Game 5 - I know because I was in attendance. But go ahead and keep lying to yourself, keep trying to deceive everyone else. It still doesn’t make it true.

Robinson didn't elevate his game. He played worse, which was routine for him in the playoffs. No, Houston wasn't constantly double and triple teaming him. Guess what, I attended games too! Give Dream the exact same teammates Robinson had and the Spurs go further, because he had a legit post game and Robinson didn't, which matters a lot as far as playoff basketball goes. Robinson scored a lot facing up and on the break, and you get less of those opportunities in the playoffs.

[Phenomanul]

Now you’re just flat out lying. Congrats.

Hakeem would’ve done jack with the likes of Vinny and Avery.

[kingmalaki]

Now you’re just flat out lying. Congrats.

Hakeem would’ve done jack with the likes of Vinny and Avery.

He would have gotten further than Robinson and his numbers wouldn't routinely drop come playoff time, which you still have yet to address. A man plays worse in the playoffs almost every year and you are blaming other people for it.

[Slippy]

Now you’re just flat out lying. Congrats.

Hakeem would’ve done jack with the likes of Vinny and Avery.

Phenom you have made accurate & valid arguements. Some fans on here don't understand the game, probably havnt ever played & cant put 2 & 2 together - that basketball is team game. Supporting casts do matter.

Fans claiming avery & delnegro are the calibur of Smith, Cassel & Ely is a crackup. You know theres no point in arguing if they truly believe that.

[baseline bum]

Lets see...

The Rockets took Game 1 on a very close finish (94 - 93). Rodman elected to double off of Mario Elie who hit the game winning dagger.
Rodman was publically lambasted by coach Bob Hill for that play, despite an otherwise good performance from Rodman in Game 1 which resulted in Rodman throwing a tantrum the very next game. In doing so, Rodman gift-wrapped Game 2 to the Rockets (chucking three 3-pt attempts in the first quarter before getting yanked for the remainder of the game).

fify

It all hinged on Game 5 where inexplicably (despite the two road victories) Bob Hill decided to demote Rodman from the starting lineup. Rodman played half-heartedly again disrupting team chemistry.

Rodman got benched for being really late to practice before Game 5 if I remember right. He was pretty much daring Hill to bench him.

[21209]

David actually won MVP that year.

That fact alone ate away at Olajuwon and he was determined to prove in that series that he was the true MVP. which he did.

[barbacoataco]

This is one of those debates where both sides are right. Robinson didn't have a great supporting cast, but the blame also lies on him too.

I've been defending DRob, but to play devil's advocate I'll point out 2 things.
1. Robinson missed clutch free throws in that series, and he was a good FT shooter. That is kind of the ultimate choke job, because you're not being defended and you just can't do it.
2. More importantly, Robinson's biggest flaw in the playoffs was his lack of a "go to" shot that he could make in the face of heavily pressure in a slow half court game. That is what Duncan had that Robinson didn't.

I still say that with his overall skills, if he had players like Ginobili and Parker that could drive to the basket and break down defenses he would have had more success in the playoffs.

[Phenomanul]

He would have gotten further than Robinson and his numbers wouldn't routinely drop come playoff time, which you still have yet to address. A man plays worse in the playoffs almost every year and you are blaming other people for it.

You can't play better if more defenders are consistently thrown your way. But that's the part you want to conveniently ignore.

David's first two seasons, when he had decent coaching (Larry Brown) and a decent point guard (Rod Strickland) - his playoff numbers were better than his regular season ones.

IT WASN'T UNTIL DAVID'S PLAYOFF STARTING SQUAD INCLUDED AVERY AND VINNY that playoff defenses focused solely on stopping him - HENCE the decline in his efficiency.

But go ahead and keep lying to yourself , after all the 1994 and 1995 les are all that Houston fan can reminisce about.

[Phenomanul]

That fact alone ate away at Olajuwon and he was determined to prove in that series that he was the true MVP. which he did.

It's "fans" like you that keep perpetuating Kenny Smith's narrative that do a disservice to Robinson.

Fact is Olajuwon's Rockets don't take that series IF

1) Dennis Rodman didn't gift wrap the first two games for them
2) Mario Elie doesn't hit the dagger in Game 1
3) Cassell doesn't play out of his mind in Game 5
4) Robert Horry doesn't close the series out

Despite Hakeem's otherworldly numbers.

Again, Amar'e Stoudemire went bananas on the Spurs during the Spurs vs. Suns 2005 series. But no one remembers that because the Spurs took the series. It was a series in which Duncan had significant help from Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Horry, and Barry.

[Phenomanul]

fify


Rodman got benched for being really late to practice before Game 5 if I remember right. He was pretty much daring Hill to bench him.

He stayed partying in Houston and didn't ride the team bus back to San Antonio. Which made him late for practice. Found an excerpt from Dennis Rodman's book... rather telling reading his perspective on the matter.

Rodman was a basketball compe or, but didn't like being controlled - in San Antonio this was a recipe for disaster. It's sad his personality couldn't mesh so that management could reign in his talents as a win for both sides. Ultimately if it meant picking Pop vs. Rodman - Pop gave us Duncan, which gave us 5 ships - so in the end "Pop's way" was worth way more to the franchise in the long run.

It started to fall apart in the Western Conference Semifinals against the Lakers. In Game 3 of the series, which we lost, I came out of the game in the second half and took my shoes off on the sideline. This was no different than most other games. I didn't see a place for me to sit, so I lay down to the press table that ran behind the baseline. So there I was, shoes off, towel over my head, kicking back watching the game.

Then, during a time-out, I didn't get up. I didn't join the huddle. I sat where I was, watching. The television cameras caught me the whole time, like they always do, so the whole world saw me sitting there, back against the press table, with my shoes off.

Bob Hill didn't like this. Gregg Popovich didn't like this. I didn't play any more in that game. Nothing was said to me; I guess it was just supposed to be understood that I wasn't going back in. After we lost that game, we still led in the series, two games to one, and the Spurs decided to suspend me for Game 4. They said the suspension was for "insubordination". Then, after we won that game, they decided I wasn't going to start Game 5.

I understand that it didn't look good for me to be lying over there when the rest of the team was in the huddle. I understand that. But I also think they made way too much out of it. They let themselves be so distracted by me that the whole team lost its focus. They couldn't just let me be myself for a while and deal with it another time. They had to make a big deal out of it, right there, because they wanted to make sure I knew who was boss.

They treated me like a child again. I got out of line so they had to sit me. The players wanted to take a stand against me. Management wanted to take a stand against me. The whole organization wanted to send a message to me.

Some of the players - Doc Rivers is one guy I remember - said I was being immature and doing things to hurt the team. That's when I first realized I wasn't going to be back next year. Players started deciding I wasn't worth the trouble, that the team would be better off without me.

The suspension was Popovich's decision, but I believe he had the approval of the coaches and the players. They weren't going to say anything he didn't want to hear.

If another player had done what I did, I wouldn't have given a rat's ass. So what if a guy didn't go into the huddle. Like I said before, if there are so many guys in the huddle who aren't paying attention - what's the difference? I wasn't in the game, I wasn't going back into the game right away, so why did it matter? It's all appearances and image, and I wasn't representing the Spurs the way they wanted to be represented.

None of the players stood up for me. I lost a lot of respect for the guys on that team when that happened. They left me out there, hanging, just to save themselves. They played it safe. They knew it wasn't good for the team to make me sit out, and they knew what I did wasn't the worst thing in the world, but they didn't have the guts to stand up and say something.

This is the playoffs, and they were more worried about sitting on me than winning the games. I had a hard time understanding that.

I'm not sure, but I think these were the same players who were coming up to me at the beginning of the Lakers series, talking about what we'd done in Detroit and what we needed to do to win it all. They would come up to me before games and talk about championship basketball, asking me for tips on how to play certain players, what to look for from the referees, how to turn the intensity up.

In the end, though, everyone looks out for themselves. A player who's near the end of his career isn't going to say anything, because he knows he could be gone if the general manager doesn't like something he says. Who's going to stand up and say something? A guy who's up for a new contract isn't going to say anything. A guy who might be looking for a new contract from that general manager a year or two down the road isn't going to say anything. Sometimes it doesn't take much to piss off management, and nobody's going to put themselves on the line for someone as unpopular as me.

I didn't like the coaching in the playoffs. Simple as that.

Bob Hill coached the conference semifinals and the finals like we were playing Minnesota in the middle of December. He was going with a nine- and ten-man rotation. You don't do that in the playoffs. You don't sit me out for long stretches when I'm the team's best rebounder, best defensive player, and the only guy standing there with two championship rings. It's ridiculous. You play six or seven guys in the playoffs and make sure your stars are out there for forty minutes a game. That's the only way you can win.

After we lost Game 3, we won two of the next three to advance to the Western Conference Finals against the Rockets. They won in Los Angeles without me. I admit that. I sat and they won. It worked out perfectly for the Spurs: they got another chance to show they were "taming" Dennis Rodman, and the team won the series. Perfect.

The television cameras were on me again the whole series in Los Angeles, and again against the rockets. I was like this sideshow to the game, and they didn't want to miss anything - on the court or off. It seemed like they had a camera just for me in the entire postseason.

I think that attention made the Spurs do what they did. I've been talking off my shoes on the bench for years; that wasn't anything new to anybody on that team. I did that in Detroit, and it was never an issue. I do it because I want to let them breathe, and I want to feel free when I'm not in the game. MY feet get sore when I'm playing, and taking my shoes off when I'm not in the game helps me feel more comfortable when I'm in the game. It's not like I'm taking my shoes off to shove them in somebody's face. There's a reason for it.

But once everybody in the country saw me without my shoes on, the Spurs - and probably the NBA - decided something had to be done. They couldn't be seen as having lost control of one of their players. There's an image to protect - the image of the NBA Man.

After we beat the Lakers, we had three days to wait before playing the first game of the Western COnference Finals against the Rockets. The Rockets went seven games to beat the PHoenix Suns, and the last game of that series was May 20, two days after we finished off the Lakers.

I wanted to go to Las Vegas during that time off, so I did. I went with my friend Dwight Manley and Mike Silver, an reporter from Sports Illustrated. This, of course, drove everyone crazy. They didn't know where I was, and they were worried that I'd just bailed on the team.

Jack Haley called me in Las Vegas and told me everyone was panicking. He told me I had to get back to San Antonio that Saturday Night, May 20, to attend a team dinner with everybody and their wives. Then Bob Hill called and told me I better be there - or else. So that was my choice: stay in Vegas and have fun or go back to San Antonio and sit around with everybody and their wives.

What I really wanted to do was fly from Las Vegas to Phoenix for the seventh game of the Rockets-Suns series. I wanted to just walk in and sit courtside to blow everybody's mind. They'd be thinking, What's with this guy? He's everywhere. I thought that would have been really cool, to show up there to see who we were going to play.

That's the aura I want to throw out there: a guy who's everywhere. When somebody tells me my hair is going to fall out because it's been dyed so many times, I tell them when it all falls out I'm going to get two eyeballs tattooed onto the back of my head. Eyes in the back of my head - how perfect is that? I'm going to do it too - so everybody knows I'm always watching.

Anyway, I went back for the team party. I listened to Jack Haley and Bob Hill and decided to come back. Jack was the only guy on the team I could talk to, and I think the Spurs used him to get to me. Everybody around the league - and all the fans - thought that Jack was like my baby-sitter. That's how he's always described, as either my baby-sitter or my translator.

I let Jack have all that. I don't argue with anybody about it. If it helps Jack, that's fine. What I didn't like was the way the Spurs used Jack. They used Jack to talk to me, then they went behind Jack's back and started talking about him. They said, "Jack Haley ain't . He's only here because of Dennis." That isn't right. Treat the man right. THey told him he was the middleman and the go-between - and they kissed his ass the whole time they were trying to get him to play that role - then they backstabbed him. They listened to him and took his advice, then they talked bad about him.

Typical.

Comment: Rodman conveniently ignores his Game 1 and Game 2 antics here.

After the second game of the Western Conference Finals against Houston - after we fell behind two games to none with two losses at home - Avery Johnson stood up in the locker room, in front of the whole team and most of all the team's management, and said, "We can't wait for David Robinson to take us, because he ain't going to be there for us."

David Robinson was there, sitting right in the middle of everyone. When Avery was finished, David was still sitting there. He sat there and took it.

We lost that series in six games, and the Rockets went on to sweep the Orlando Magic in four games to win the le. I guess you could say, based on that, we were the second-best team in the NBA. That's not good enough, though, because I think we could have - and should have - beaten the Rockets.

I got blamed for losing that series, of course. Everyone says I sold out the Spurs, that I didn't play, that I was a major distraction. It's gotten to the point where the incidents in those two play-off series have become the defining point in my career.

Where was David Robinson in the Houston series? He got eaten alive by Hakeem Olajuwon that whole series. They asked me to guard Olajuwon, and I refused. Bob Hill came up to me and asked if I would take Hakeem in the first half, and I said no. I would have taken him in the second half, but not the first. Any coach will tell you you don't put your best defensive player on the other team's best offensive player in the first half. You put it all on the line in the second half. That's how it worked with Chuck Daly in Detroit, and I know that's how Phil Jackson feels in Chicago.

What you try to do is contain the guy in the first half and make sure your best defensive player doesn't get into foul trouble early. You've got be physical with Hakeem, and I'm no good if I've got three or four fouls in the first half. Then every time I touch somebody, it's a foul. Against Los Angeles in the semifinals I couldn't touch Elden Campbell without being called for a foul, and Elden Campbell doesn't get the breaks from the refs like Hakeem does.

So if you want me to guard him in the second, half, fine. David got into foul trouble against Hakeem just by falling down. David asked me for help, and I told him right to his ing face, "I am not going down there." I was not going to help him. He didn't say anything to me, because there was nothing he could say.

They asked me to double-team Olajuwon, and I refused. The way the defense was drawn up, there was no way I was going to be able to get back down inside when my man was at the top of the key or way out on the baseline. The defense didn't make sense, and I told Bob Hill this. He just looked at me and said, "This is the defense we're going to run."

In practice every day Coach Hill would say "David, you think you can play Olajuwon straight up?" David would just shrug and say, "You all can come down and help if you want." Never once did he say he could take him by himself. This guy was the MVP of the league, and they were paying him $8 million a year. He needed to step up and at least say he could do it by himself. He was supposed to be the one leading this team.

Those guys screwed me over for two years, and then they came to me and asked me to bail their asses out. That's what it came down to. I did what I had to do. I got them to the Western Conference Finals. I got them there, and we should have gone further.

I helped that team, but they didn't listen to me until it was too late. We lost the first two games - at home, even - because the defense we were running was ridiculous. David was getting killed inside, and Robert Horry was killing us from the outside.

Do you want to know who changed the defense for the next two games, after we got to Houston? I did. I saw what we were doing wrong, and I set out to change it. I finally got Bob Hill to see it my way, and it worked. David played Hakeem straight up. Hakeem got what he was going to get anyway, but we stopped everybody else. That's the whole key to stopping them: Give Hakeem what he wants and clam down on everybody else. It's not that hard to figure out.

We were heading back to San Antonio for Game 5, tied at two games. Even though we started out the series so badly, we were going home having to win two out of three, with two of them - Game 5 and Game 7 - at home. It looked like we finally had our act together.

Comment: Rodman conveniently stays mum about his partying in Houston after Game 4.

So what happens when we go back home? Hill decided to go back to the defense we were running in the first two games. It was unbelievable. We went back to double-teaming way outside and getting our ass kicked inside. Then we switched up and collapsed inside so they'd throw it out to the shooter - Horry - and he killed us on three-pointers. We made Horry a star in that series.

The Rockets beat us two straight and went to the Finals. I was so pissed off, I couldn't believe it. After the Spurs traded me, Bob Hill described my season by saying, "Dennis did not ride with us on the team bus to the first practice of the year, and he wasn't with us after the last game of the playoffs. You take it from there."

The biggest problem in San Antonio was Gregg Popovich, the general manager. He wanted to be the coach and the general manager. He stood around and held Bob Hill's hand every day, saying, "Okay, you've got to do this now. It's time for you to listen to me." If Hill didn't do it, Popovich would jump his ass, and so HIll would turn around and jump somebody else's ass. flows downhill, and it seemed like I was always at the bottom.

Other than the playoffs I didn't have much of a problem with Bob Hill. He was being used as much as I was. Popovich wanted to be the guy who tamed Dennis Rodman, and he tried to use Hill to do his dirty work. That was Popovich's big challenge. Mr. Military was going to make me a good little boy, a good soldier. He lost sight of everything else, and then when he decided he couldn't do anything with me, he badmouthed me and gave me away for next to nothing. Then he pretended it was good for the team.

I can understand that the Spurs didn't give me the contract I had signed in Detroit before the 1990 season. Nobody made me sign it, and it turned out to be a bad deal for me. It wasn't the Spurs' fault the market went crazy and I was left out in the cold. But none of that matters, because the Spurs said they were going to give me $7 million a year, and they went back on their promise. I could have lived with it if they had never said anything about the contract, but they did. I went into the office, and Popovich said. "We'll take care of you." Then he went to the papers and said he'd never said anything like that, and he'd never heard about a new contract. Would you be pissed off if your boss treated you like this? Of course you would. Everybody would.

After I left, the Spurs took care of Sean Elliott and David Robinson. They tore up their contracts and renegotiated to make sure those two stayed with the team through their whole careers. So what I was asking for wasn't something they'd never heard of, or thought of. I didn't want a contract that would keep me there my whole career. I know I'm not as young as those guys are - that's why I just wanted a two-year deal that would make up for all I'd given back to the team and the NBA. That wasn't there for me, though.

In San Antonio, it all came down to this: I got sold out by the players, the coaches, and the management. All up and down the organization I got sold out. I was out there on an island, an easy target for everything. The Spurs traded me to the Chicago Bulls for center Will Perdue, a guy with no game. Straight up for Will Perdue, bro. That's how much San Antonio wanted to get rid of me.

Comment: For the record, Avery, Elliott, and Doc Rivers all deny Rodman's narrative. Avery denies having said disparaging words about Robinson in the locker room - which directly contradicts Rodman's quotes. Elliott also denies having heard Avery "utter any of those phrases".

[Phenomanul]

I do agree with Rodman that coach Hill was clueless about how to properly defend the Rockets.

[baseline bum]

He stayed partying in Houston and didn't ride the team bus back to San Antonio. Which made him late for practice. Found an excerpt from Dennis Rodman's book... rather telling reading his perspective on the matter.

Rodman was a basketball compe or, but didn't like being controlled - in San Antonio this was a recipe for disaster. It's sad his personality couldn't mesh so that management could reign in his talents as a win for both sides. Ultimately if it meant picking Pop vs. Rodman - Pop gave us Duncan, which gave us 5 ships - so in the end "Pop's way" was worth way more to the franchise in the long run.



Comment: Rodman conveniently ignores his Game 1 and Game 2 antics here.



Comment: Rodman conveniently stays mum about his partying in Houston after Game 4.



Comment: For the record, Avery, Elliott, and Doc Rivers all deny Rodman's narrative. Avery denies having said disparaging words about Robinson in the locker room - which directly contradicts Rodman's quotes. Elliott also denies having heard Avery "utter any of those phrases".

What a piece of bull revisionist history from Rodman. Rodman the best defender on the team is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. All Rodman wanted was to stat pad his rebound totals. LOL him whining about not staying on Horry when him not staying on Horry is what cost the Spurs Game 1 and what started the Big Shot Rob legend when he hit that wide open shot to steal the game. LOL him acting like he was the reason they went back and won two in Houston after he was the reason they lost Game 1 and after he quit on the team in Game 2. Dennis ing Rodman shooting three threes in the first quarter of a must win game and yet it's everyone else's fault the team went down 0-2.

What a piece of . Rodman pulled the same Rondo did in Dallas.

[Phenomanul]

What a piece of bull revisionist history from Rodman. Rodman the best defender on the team is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. All Rodman wanted was to stat pad his rebound totals. LOL him whining about not staying on Horry when him not staying on Horry is what cost the Spurs Game 1 and what started the Big Shot Rob legend when he hit that wide open shot to steal the game. LOL him acting like he was the reason they went back and won two in Houston after he was the reason they lost Game 1 and after he quit on the team in Game 2. Dennis ing Rodman shooting three threes in the first quarter of a must win game and yet it's everyone else's fault the team went down 0-2.

What a piece of . Rodman pulled the same Rondo did in Dallas.

After you mentioned he was late for practice prior to Game 5 I managed to connect the dots.

Not only was Rodman partying in Houston after Game 4 - it was Kenny Smith who said that Rodman was out partying with members from Houston's bench after Game 4. According to Kenny, that's when he knew that "Game 5 was theirs."

This is one of the primary reasons why Kenny Smith is rather disingenuous when it comes to his recollection about the 1995 series (though in general I find his on-screen persona to be overly obnoxious). In this matter, it's irritating for Kenny to focus solely on the Hakeem vs. Robinson matchup as if that is the only metric by which The Admiral's legacy should be defined. So in one hand he recognizes the level of discord Rodman's behavior could impart on a team with championship aspirations BUT then in the same breath he conveniently fails to acknowledge that it was a huge factor towards enabling the Rockets to secure victory.

[Brunodf]

People just gotta accept that D.Rob was never meant to be a championship team first option.

He was basically a better version of Garnett tbh, great defense/great skillset*/great athleticism but when it trully mattered he never delivered until late in his career when the pressure was off him as a 2nd option.

[Phenomanul]

People just gotta accept that D.Rob was never meant to be a championship team first option.

He was basically a better version of Garnett tbh, great defense/great skillset*/great athleticism but when it trully mattered he never delivered until late in his career when the pressure was off him as a 2nd option.

This is an unfair assessment. Perpetuated by Millennials or "fair weather" fans who never truly saw him play.

THAT's the whole point of this exercise.

Give him prime Ginobili and prime Parker against the Rockets, and put Pop on the bench - guess what? The Spurs go on to beat the Rockets. Not a doubt in my mind.

[Brunodf]

This unfair assessment.

THAT's the whole point of this exercise.

Give him prime Ginobili and prime Parker against the Rockets, and put Pop on the bench - guess what? The Spurs go on to beat the Rockets.

Give Duncan prime Ginobili and prime Parker and he would've 10+ championships

Prime Ginobili only happened between 2005-2012

Prime Parker was 2010+

This revisionist history that Duncan had his best runs with them at their primes is hilarious to me.

Also people forget how often they were injured

[Thomas82]

That fact alone ate away at Olajuwon and he was determined to prove in that series that he was the true MVP. which he did.

David said that MVP trophy haunted him for a long time.

[baseline bum]

After you mentioned he was late for practice prior to Game 5 I managed to connect the dots.

Not only was Rodman partying in Houston after Game 4 - it was Kenny Smith who said that Rodman was out partying with members from Houston's bench after Game 4. According to Kenny, that's when he knew that "Game 5 was theirs."

This is one of the primary reasons why Kenny Smith is rather disingenuous when it comes to his recollection about the 1995 series (though in general I find his on-screen persona to be overly obnoxious). In this matter, it's irritating for Kenny to focus solely on the Hakeem vs. Robinson matchup as if that is the only metric by which The Admiral's legacy should be defined. So in one hand he recognizes the level of discord Rodman's behavior could impart on a team with championship aspirations BUT then in the same breath he conveniently fails to acknowledge that it was a huge factor towards enabling the Rockets to secure victory.

Wow I never heard that, but it's not surprising given how much of a POS Rodman was here. Do you have a link to that?

Rodman's persecution complex is hilarious. He was the most popular Spur here until he started acting like an ass in the 95 playoffs.

[Arcadian]

Damn, surprised to see debates about Robinson pop up again. Duncan > Robinson, but both were absolute monsters on both ends, both top 20 all time (Duncan top 5).

As for Robinson being "soft," it's mostly bull . His personality off the court was a gentle kind Christian man, so it's easy to conflate that with the game. You see Shaq dunk on him and think, "Ah, it must be that Dave is too nice." Or it could be that Shaq was an unstoppable force who dunked on every player in the league. Is every player Shaq ever posterized "soft"? Please. I can find a lot more highlights on youtube of Robinson being an assertive monster and making other players look soft if I cared to.

[Phenomanul]

Give Duncan prime Ginobili and prime Parker and he would've 10+ championships

Prime Ginobili only happened between 2005-2012

Prime Parker was 2010+

This revisionist history that Duncan had his best runs with them at their primes is hilarious to me.

Also people forget how often they were injured

Duncan needed them for the 2005 championship, the 2007 championship and to a lesser degree the 2014 championship run - FACT.

Why do people feel like defense of Robinson's legacy somehow diminishes how great a player Duncan was??? They are two entirely different arguments with intertwined CONTEXT.

Duncan had the right combination of help, and coaching during his championship runs - Robinson did not have that luxury. Neither of these two statements trivialize Duncan's stature as an NBA great.

[Phenomanul]

Wow I never heard that, but it's not surprising given how much of a POS Rodman was here. Do you have a link to that?

Rodman's persecution complex is hilarious. He was the most popular Spur here until he started acting like an ass in the 95 playoffs.

He said it on a late night, Inside The NBA episode several years ago (I wanna say during Shaq's first year as a regular).

[kingmalaki]

You can't play better if more defenders are consistently thrown your way. But that's the part you want to conveniently ignore.

David's first two seasons, when he had decent coaching (Larry Brown) and a decent point guard (Rod Strickland) - his playoff numbers were better than his regular season ones.

IT WASN'T UNTIL DAVID'S PLAYOFF STARTING SQUAD INCLUDED AVERY AND VINNY that playoff defenses focused solely on stopping him - HENCE the decline in his efficiency.

But go ahead and keep lying to yourself , after all the 1994 and 1995 les are all that Houston fan can reminisce about.

But those are the same teammates that he had in the regular season. Yet, his numbers constantly went down. Explain that. Did teams not focus on stopping him in the regular season? He didn't have multiple defenders thrown at him in the regular season? Teams figured they would make it easier on the Spurs best offensive option in the regular season and only worry about stopping him in the playoffs? Your argument would make sense if he had different teammates in the playoffs than he did in the regular season, but he didn't, which makes your argument

Even when Dream had garbage teammates you don't see a constant decrease in his playoff numbers. Robinson played worse. Stop blaming others for it.

[barbacoataco]

You keep saying "his numbers went down" but he still had good numbers. And the fact is not having teammates who can make shots allows defenses to key in on one player. And that is what happened. Those of us old enough to remember who actually watched the games are saying that is what happened.

Also, Duncan's numbers "went down" in 2005 vs Pistons but no one remembers that because the Spurs pulled it out. Manu almost won Finals MVP that year. So to go on and on about ONE SERIES like it defines his whole career is ridiculous.

[kingmalaki]

You keep saying "his numbers went down" but he still had good numbers.

His scoring efficiency was actually not good. In his playoff career Robinson shot 53, 69, 47, 41, 45, 52, 43, 48, 37, 47, 47 and 54 percent from the field. That's good for a center, who shot 52% for his career (regular season)? No, it's not.

And the fact is not having teammates who can make shots allows defenses to key in on one player.

He had the same teammates in the playoffs that he had in the regular season. Were they not keying in on him in the regular season, when he wasn't shooting under 50%?

And that is what happened. Those of us old enough to remember who actually watched the games are saying that is what happened.

Do you remember him having the same teammates in the playoffs (when he shot poorly) that he had in the regular season (when he didn't shoot poorly)? His play dropped in the playoffs, playing along the same guys. Why are you blaming them for him playing worse?

Also, Duncan's numbers "went down" in 2005 vs Pistons but no one remembers that because the Spurs pulled it out. Manu almost won Finals MVP that year. So to go on and on about ONE SERIES like it defines his whole career is ridiculous.

Duncan was a 50% shooter in the regular season and a 50% shooter in the playoffs. He didn't routinely play worse. Robinson did.

[barbacoataco]

Robinson got to the line 10 times a game of more so his FG% doesn't tell the whole story. He also had s ton of rebounds 2.5-3 blocks per game and was a great defensive player. He averaged 25 ppg in the 1995 playoffs when he was supposedly so terrible.