Kawhis Uncle wants Kawhi in LA

[spursistan]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

Yeah, I mean like sure..

[TD 21]

Again, there's zero reason why Boston would trade for Kawhi. They have Hayward locked in for three more years and two players they really liked on rookie deals. If Gordon were healthy and just not clicking, maybe. But they are almost certainly more inclined to see what they already have than make any substantial change at the wing. By far, the best thing PATFO can do is wait until the draft and pick their own guy. LAC has two picks in the lottery this season. Neither is great, but that doesn't matter if they guys PATFO want fall to them. I have no idea at all whom that would be (don't even have DX anymore to check prospects out), but if someone they think can be a really good player is there, those picks plus Harris for Kawhi and Patty and/or Pau could easily outclass a Boston deal. There are others too, like a deal with Phoenix (who could have two lottery picks themselves including the a top-three pick).

The Spurs could have a young group with Murray and the haul from the deal with the potential additions of guys like Anderson, Bertans and Milutinov. They'd also still have a vet core of Parker, Green and Aldridge to keep the team watchable. Finally, they'd have no bad salary on their books going forward and a legit chance to FINALLY fix their weaknesses at the guard spots. That feels like a much better prognosis than trading for Boston's guys and then hoping to be bad enough to get a real star in the lottery. People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.

I already explained the reasons. It's simple: It's almost impossible to build a true contender in this league and when you're one move away and have the chance to land the most important piece, you don't "wait and see" because of 2 good-very good prospects. In addition to their core 4 (3 of which are relatively young) and other young players, they'd also still have a bunch of valuable picks coming.

From Spurs perspective, they couldn't beat two blue chip prospects, who play Leonard's position (one of whom is an archetype), plus a 1st and Morris, who could be re-routed for a 2nd or lesser young player.

Clippers package wouldn't even be close. Tatum looks like a better version of Harris in the making, there is no comparable for Brown or Morris and Clippers and Pistons picks are likely to be late lottery. Also, in Celtics trade, Spurs would already save money, but doing so wouldn't be as valuable with Leonard replaced by 2 players on entry level contracts for the next 2 and 3 seasons respectively.

Suns could maybe offer a similar package to Celtics (although, with Brown and Tatum, we already know they're going to be good players; there's no way to be sure of the top prospects in this draft), but wouldn't for the same reason they didn't for Irving: Leonard would inevitably walk.

I agree. For the price they are paying, they'd pull the trigger without Kawhi saying he'd stay for sure. Not only did it seem to work for George and OKC, but they also have their history with CP3. If Kawhi wants to be in LA, LAC will be good enough for him. I doubt he'd pass up a Bird-max with his injuries.

The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an in bent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

[MaNu4Tres]

I already explained the reasons. It's simple: It's almost impossible to build a true contender in this league and when you're one move away and have the chance to land the most important piece, you don't "wait and see" because of 2 good-very good prospects. In addition to their core 4 (3 of which are relatively young) and other young players, they'd also still have a bunch of valuable picks coming.

From Spurs perspective, they couldn't beat two blue chip prospects, who play Leonard's position (one of whom is an archetype), plus a 1st and Morris, who could be re-routed for a 2nd or lesser young player.

Clippers package wouldn't even be close. Tatum looks like a better version of Harris in the making, there is no comparable for Brown or Morris and Clippers and Pistons picks are likely to be late lottery. Also, in Celtics trade, Spurs would already save money, but doing so wouldn't be as valuable with Leonard replaced by 2 players on entry level contracts for the next 2 and 3 seasons respectively.

Suns could maybe offer a similar package to Celtics (although, with Brown and Tatum, we already know they're going to be good players; there's no way to be sure of the top prospects in this draft), but wouldn't for the same reason they didn't for Irving: Leonard would inevitably walk.




The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an in bent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

I prefer the Celtics deal as well. This summer should be very interesting.

[Chinook]

I already explained the reasons.

Yes, and I've disagreed with them. I don't think those are good reasons. I think Davis is a much more helpful target to them than a Leonard the team is willing to give up.

I also don't really think Tatum and Brown are tremendous prospects. That's just my opinion and can be wrong of course. But PATFO aren't looking at maximizing value in any trade. They are looking to build the best team they can. That means getting guys they like, not guys other teams consider "blue-chip prospects". Maybe those are one in the same, and they do really like Tatum and Brown. Maybe they like Josh Jackson and Marquise Chriss/Dragan Bender better. Maybe Ingram and Kuzma are their wet dreams. Maybe there are guys in the draft they truly believe in. Ultimately, whether a trade is workable for the team would come down to how they fare after making it. Winning the immediate value game doesn't matter.

As I said and will maintain, I don't think a Boston/SA Kawhi trade would be a good fit for either side. Ainge likely wouldn't want to completely blow Boston's load adding to their strongest position, and PATFO may not want to be locked into Boston's interpretation of good potential. It may happen, but both sides have other options they'll probably explore first. (And this is ignoring that Boston players have been turning into on the regular once they leave Stevens' system.)

The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an in bent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

They'd have legit homefield advantage, which OKC can't sell, in addition to a relatively clean cap to add players to him. If LA is strong enough to draw Kawhi away from a team coming off a WCF run, then it's probably strong enough to keep him with the plan of adding another star.

[TD 21]

Yes, and I've disagreed with them. I don't think those are good reasons. I think Davis is a much more helpful target to them than a Leonard the team is willing to give up.

I also don't really think Tatum and Brown are tremendous prospects. That's just my opinion and can be wrong of course. But PATFO aren't looking at maximizing value in any trade. They are looking to build the best team they can. That means getting guys they like, not guys other teams consider "blue-chip prospects". Maybe those are one in the same, and they do really like Tatum and Brown. Maybe they like Josh Jackson and Marquise Chriss/Dragan Bender better. Maybe Ingram and Kuzma are their wet dreams. Maybe there are guys in the draft they truly believe in. Ultimately, whether a trade is workable for the team would come down to how they fare after making it. Winning the immediate value game doesn't matter.

As I said and will maintain, I don't think a Boston/SA Kawhi trade would be a good fit for either side. Ainge likely wouldn't want to completely blow Boston's load adding to their strongest position, and PATFO may not want to be locked into Boston's interpretation of good potential. It may happen, but both sides have other options they'll probably explore first. (And this is ignoring that Boston players have been turning into on the regular once they leave Stevens' system.)



They'd have legit homefield advantage, which OKC can't sell, in addition to a relatively clean cap to add players to him. If LA is strong enough to draw Kawhi away from a team coming off a WCF run, then it's probably strong enough to keep him with the plan of adding another star.

That's fine, but don't pretend there's "zero reasons" when there clearly are. Leonard is considered better than Davis and in this scenario, is the one guaranteed to be available.

At "not looking to maximize value" for a top 3 player. This would mean starting over, meaning how they've operated over the past 2 decades would be mostly out the window. Also, unlike the majority of prospects you named who are giant question marks, Brown and Tatum are already starting caliber players and they fit with the way the game has evolved, so they'd jive with building the best team they can too. Finally, if you're going to deal a superstar, it's best to get them out of conference.

You're naïve as to how this league works. Again, they wouldn't be blowing their load (but if you're going to, this is what you blow it for). 3 of their 4 stars would still be relatively young, they'd have other decent young players/prospects surrounding them and a bunch more valuable picks coming to supplement them.

You're equating 2 high end prospects to busted hip Thomas and role player Bradley. Stevens' magical "system" has contributed to producing a 20th ranked offense, despite having everything you need to build a good modern offense outside of a 2nd creator on the perimeter.

The biggest selling point for superstars/stars is having an in bent superstar. Spurs are the exception because their superstar has failed to cultivate relationships with other superstars/stars and they don't appeal culturally to them either.

[Chinook]

That's fine, but don't pretend there's "zero reasons" when there clearly are. Leonard is considered better than Davis and in this scenario, is the one guaranteed to be available.

I don't consider bad reasons to be real reasons and thusly dismiss them. Leonard is not clearly better than Davis because he's not healthy and may never be again. This isn't a Kyrie situation. Kawhi comes back healthy and engaged, and it's a different story from the bottom up, including how SA would play this summer.

At "not looking to maximize value" for a top 3 player. This would mean starting over, meaning how they've operated over the past 2 decades would be mostly out the window. Also, unlike the majority of prospects you named who are giant question marks, Brown and Tatum are already starting caliber players and they fit with the way the game has evolved, so they'd jive with building the best team they can too. Finally, if you're going to deal a superstar, it's best to get them out of conference.

*sigh* They aren't looking to win the trade in articles by guys like Lowe or in your esteemed evaluation on what they should get. You think Brown and Tatum are great pieces, and that might end up being true. I don't, and that might end up being true. However, it only matter if PATFO think that's whom they want. The team would be wise to do their own evaluations and not just go with guys who are hyped up, because hype doesn't win games. "Value" doesn't win games.

You're naïve as to how this league works. Again, they wouldn't be blowing their load (but if you're going to, this is what you blow it for). 3 of their 4 stars would still be relatively young, they'd have other decent young players/prospects surrounding them and a bunch more valuable picks coming to supplement them.

They only have one really good pick coming up. The others are probably picks in the middle of the draft. Even the SAC/LAL pick can't be better than second-overall and could easily be sixth or seventh. Having Irving, aging Horford and two wings coming off leg injuries is not a no-brainer. A Kawhi who is too hurt to play for any team not in Los Angeles simply isn't worth breaking your back over, at least for Ainge, who wouldn't give up picks for Butler or George.

You're equating 2 high end prospects to busted hip Thomas and role player Bradley. Stevens' magical "system" has contributed to producing a 20th ranked offense, despite having everything you need to build a good modern offense outside of a 2nd creator on the perimeter.

Yes, I'm equating guys who scored very well in the Celtics' offense before to guys scoring well in it now. That the current guys aren't scoring as well as their predecessors would suggest they aren't nearly as slam-dunk as they're reported as being to anyone who isn't trying to prop up their argument. You're talking about role-players as if they're established stars while also pointing out that the Celtics don't even have a second banana. Just not a good position to defend.

The biggest selling point for superstars/stars is having an in bent superstar. Spurs are the exception because their superstar has failed to cultivate relationships with other superstars/stars and they don't appeal culturally to them either.

That's the biggest selling point to some stars, especially those who are looking to join other teams. It's not necessarily what Kawhi wants. Leonard apparently doesn't want to recruit any other players, yet you think those other players are going to be what makes him re-sign. It's not a consistent argument either. If Kawhi is willing/desiring to leave SA, it's not because he can't win there. He's gotten closer with SA than most of his peers have gotten other places (already has his ring and has only missed the third round twice in his career). He'd be leaving SA to go home, and home is home whether you have a Robin there or not.

[vy65]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

This kind of doesn't make any sense though. Whether rightfully or wrongfully, PATFO has a reputation of having cultivated a preeminent organization. You'd think some of the best sports doctors would eventually flock to that organization. It doesn't make sense that they'd hang on to the same, second rate medical staff after decades of success.

Either means PATFO is incompetent in evaluating medical talent (a real possibility) or the medical staff is actually pretty decent. I'm prone to believe the former than the latter.

[TD 21]

I don't consider bad reasons to be real reasons and thusly dismiss them. Leonard is not clearly better than Davis because he's not healthy and may never be again. This isn't a Kyrie situation. Kawhi comes back healthy and engaged, and it's a different story from the bottom up, including how SA would play this summer.

Yeah, having a legit chance to win a championship is a terrible reason. Obviously, any team would do their due diligence, but he hasn't torn anything or had surgery and no one has said this is going to be career altering. It would be a calculated risk, but so was trading for Irving, who has had durability issues and so would be waiting on and trading for Davis, who also has.

*sigh* They aren't looking to win the trade in articles by guys like Lowe or in your esteemed evaluation on what they should get. You think Brown and Tatum are great pieces, and that might end up being true. I don't, and that might end up being true. However, it only matter if PATFO think that's whom they want. The team would be wise to do their own evaluations and not just go with guys who are hyped up, because hype doesn't win games. "Value" doesn't win games.

As if it couldn't be one in the same. Obviously, they'd do their own evaluations, but it's equally obvious that Celtics can offer the biggest haul for the next superstar who hits the trade market. Once again, you expose how little you know about the league.

They only have one really good pick coming up. The others are probably picks in the middle of the draft. Even the SAC/LAL pick can't be better than second-overall and could easily be sixth or seventh. Having Irving, aging Horford and two wings coming off leg injuries is not a no-brainer. A Kawhi who is too hurt to play for any team not in Los Angeles simply isn't worth breaking your back over, at least for Ainge, who wouldn't give up picks for Butler or George.

They have 2-3 picks that are likely to be very valuable and depth of picks beyond that. It's a no brainer because their current core isn't championship caliber or likely to be, so you take the calculated risk and force Leonard to walk away from a true contender. Butler/George aren't in Leonard's class.

Yes, I'm equating guys who scored very well in the Celtics' offense before to guys scoring well in it now. That the current guys aren't scoring as well as their predecessors would suggest they aren't nearly as slam-dunk as they're reported as being to anyone who isn't trying to prop up their argument. You're talking about role-players as if they're established stars while also pointing out that the Celtics don't even have a second banana. Just not a good position to defend.

Now you're basing value off of ppg and doing so without context. Thomas averaged 3-4 more mpg and had a usage rate 13-15% higher than Tatum/Brown and while Bradley's usage rate was similar to Tatum/Brown, he was doing so in similar mpg to Thomas. I'm saying, there's a baseline to Tatum/Brown already, that there isn't to most of the other prospects you named. You trade a player the magnitude of Leonard, unless it's a prospect thought to be can't miss, you're going to want some certainty.

That's the biggest selling point to some stars, especially those who are looking to join other teams. It's not necessarily what Kawhi wants. Leonard apparently doesn't want to recruit any other players, yet you think those other players are going to be what makes him re-sign. It's not a consistent argument either. If Kawhi is willing/desiring to leave SA, it's not because he can't win there. He's gotten closer with SA than most of his peers have gotten other places (already has his ring and has only missed the third round twice in his career). He'd be leaving SA to go home, and home is home whether you have a Robin there or not.

I didn't say Leonard would necessarily re-sign, I said you make him walk away from about as appealing a situation as you can create, if you're Celtics. Also, if he's even remotely interested in contending, he needs other superstars/stars to win, so I'd imagine having that would hold appeal, as well as not having to play recruiter. He hasn't had a chance to win with Spurs since becoming a superstar and barring a Walker trade, won't anytime soon either.

[cd98]

It was more like Rick Barry's wet dream. I went to greet David and his family at the airport right after either the draft or the draft lottery (I can't remember which since it was 30 years ago ) and he looked pretty happy to be in San Antonio.

I agree. My point was ignore the rumors. I doubt Kawhi is going anywhere when he has a top 5 team and stands to make the super max.

[SAGirl]

[cd98]

The Spurs have never cared about getting value in their trades. Utah got a great nominal haul for that deal, but it ended up being pretty terrible for them all things consider.

Spurs have never traded a Kawhi caliber player in his prime. They will care about getting max value. That’s why they didn’t trade LMA.

[MoSpur02]

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season.

[SAGirl]

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season.

Yup. I thought it was relevant. Neither RC nor Lamarcus sound confident. They talk more about hoping he'll be back in time than anything else.

His tendinopathy has to be a chronic thing at this point. Nothing lasts this long after rehabbing without it being a chronic thing. I still remain more concerned about his tendon being "Tiago's calf" than I am about the uncle.

Hopefully this is all a bunch of uncertainty and he will play. I can only imagine. If this has been frustrating and nerve wrecking to us fans, imagine how it is to teammates. No one knows.

[spurs10]

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season.

Well he is being honest ‘we need him back’ and ‘I don’t know’ if he is coming back. I guess his teammates are in the dark as we are....something’s gotta give.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.

[Clipper Nation]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.

He'd still be mostly insulated from the media as a Clipper. The local media slurps the Lakers at all times, even now. The national media hates the Clippers and would rather talk about any other team.

[MoSpur02]

Tom Orsborn:*Asked LA if he’s confident Kawhi will be back after the break: “Uh, I don’t know. I don’t have anything to say.”

[lmbebo]

Tom Orsborn:*Asked LA if he’s confident Kawhi will be back after the break: “Uh, I don’t know. I don’t have anything to say.”

That quote irked me

[Slippy]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.

I feel the same.

The point of contention aside from the fact he not healthy surely gotta be this supermax deal. The spurs would be concerned bout his health. The uncle gotta do his job. He probably using LA as a bargaing chip to make sure supermax still happens - despite the concerns about kawai getting back to his old fit self.

[spurs10]

If Kawhi was working out in SA people would know about. The reason RC and LMA don’t know anything is likely because they haven’t seen or heard from him. If I was paying someone $100,000 a day I’d like to know the minutea of every day!

[Chinook]

Yeah, having a legit chance to win a championship is a terrible reason. Obviously, any team would do their due diligence, but he hasn't torn anything or had surgery and no one has said this is going to be career altering. It would be a calculated risk, but so was trading for Irving, who has had durability issues and so would be waiting on and trading for Davis, who also has.

Leonard is injured. That's not the same thing as just having a rep for missing games. Assuming a physical would pan out after we've seen little sign of him getting better for all this time is weird. In a scenario where Kawhi is completely healthy, the Spurs likely wouldn't trade him to Boston or anywhere else. And in a scenario where he's faking it to go to LA, I am not sure why Boston or anyone else would feel confident in him. In a final scenario where he's healthyish but doesn't trust team doctors, he's not going to want anything to do with Boston's giving how they messed over Thomas.

As if it couldn't be one in the same. Obviously, they'd do their own evaluations, but it's equally obvious that Celtics can offer the biggest haul for the next superstar who hits the trade market. Once again, you expose how little you know about the league.

I've said it could be one in the same in every post during this debate. That you bring that up as if it's a new take is silly. Anyway, you keep on missing the point that I'm making then having the gall to condescend about my ignorance. Tatum objectively has more value than, say the 10th-overall pick in the upcoming draft. LAC would trade such a pick for Tatum, and Boston would not. Therefore doing a trade where he's the centerpiece for Kawhi is more valuable than a trade centered around the 10th pick. If the guy at 10 is a player the Spurs like/believe in more than Tatum, then they should go with that, value be damned. If the guy they would have picked is a better player in five years than Tatum, it does them no good to have gone with value in June. The draft isn't an actual crap-shoot like so many folks argue it is. There's real skill involved in scouting and navigating the board. PATFO has been crazy good at outperforming their draft slot. They shouldn't be expect to get a guy as good as Kawhi at 10, but they damned sure could do better than Tatum or Ingram.

They have 2-3 picks that are likely to be very valuable and depth of picks beyond that. It's a no brainer because their current core isn't championship caliber or likely to be, so you take the calculated risk and force Leonard to walk away from a true contender. Butler/George aren't in Leonard's class.

Those picks aren't likely to be good "valuable" as they may be.

These are them:

2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

You have a LAC pick that will either be non-lottery or seconds and a Memphis pick that will be late-lottery until 2021 at best. Those are middling assets, not really worth comparing to Tatum and Brown in terms of how much Boston seems to value them.

Now you're basing value off of ppg and doing so without context. Thomas averaged 3-4 more mpg and had a usage rate 13-15% higher than Tatum/Brown and while Bradley's usage rate was similar to Tatum/Brown, he was doing so in similar mpg to Thomas. I'm saying, there's a baseline to Tatum/Brown already, that there isn't to most of the other prospects you named. You trade a player the magnitude of Leonard, unless it's a prospect thought to be can't miss, you're going to want some certainty.

I find this pretty indefensible. The Spurs already have a baseline of mediocrity to work with in the form of this Aldridge-led team. You don't trade a star and worry about getting a base hit. You swing for the fences. They can make the playoffs and be decent even if they draft busts with the potential Leonard picks.
You go for whomever you think can get you above the ceiling. And no, I'm not basing value off anything. I'm saying your argument is illogical. If Brown and Tatum are unable to score at a competent NBA level (as Bradley did), then they haven't really proven anything elite yet. Comparing Thomas to them is foolish, given that Irving already replaced him. Brown and Tatum replaced Bradley and Crowder. That shift has apparently led them to an offense so bad that Stevens hasn't been able to save it. Or whatever. It's your argument, not mine. My argument is that Stevens runs a system friendly to player's production and that looking good in Boston isn't a stable sample. I sure am not using it as a foundation to project future production on other teams.

I didn't say Leonard would necessarily re-sign, I said you make him walk away from about as appealing a situation as you can create, if you're Celtics. Also, if he's even remotely interested in contending, he needs other superstars/stars to win, so I'd imagine having that would hold appeal, as well as not having to play recruiter. He hasn't had a chance to win with Spurs since becoming a superstar and barring a Walker trade, won't anytime soon either.

If the Spurs are a Walker trade away from taking down the Warriors, then leaving "to contend" makes little sense. That trade is only going to get more possible as the season draws to a close. The avenues the team has to complete such a deal are much more open factoring in July cap space, including just letting Danny walk, trading Kemba into cap space and trading Gasol for bad salary from Charlotte. However, this thread and any impact that can be drawn from it said nothing about Kawhi leaving for LA because he thinks they're closer to a le. He's apparently keen to be a Laker and to be back home. So I see Boston being a "true contender" with him appealing enough to persuade him if the Spurs being just one player away and able to offer so much more money isn't

[Chinook]

Spurs have never traded a Kawhi caliber player in his prime. They will care about getting max value. That’s why they didn’t trade LMA.

They're not going to care at all about it. "Value" refers to the objective or consensus worth of the assets. I don't think it matters to them at all whether they maximize their potential there. It's going to be all about the players they get and what they want to do with them, and that may come in the form of guys like Tatum, or it may come from draft picks. They have to get the best they can as judged in 2021 or 2022, not in 2018.

[tholdren]

Kl needs traded

[bic50]

Kl needs traded

Glad you don't run the team

[tholdren]

Glad you don't run the team

Yep it would suck because i would have players that play...