Bulls: Barry "CN" Mc iner Ethers MJ - LOLZ

[Killakobe81]

Laimbeer said LeBron would have dominated in the 80s 90s


In B4 "he said that cuz he hates Jordan"

why would that be any different than today?
In Jordan's prime the bigs were better and fouls harder but Lebron would still be to fast for guys his size or bigger and to strong for anyone smaller ...and he probably faster than every PG/SG in the 80's/early 90's by far ...

[hater]

Lol MJ living rent free

[Kyle Orton]

Sure he was... comparable in size and skill to Jet Terry who Lebron dunked in to oblivion ...

Well the JET owned lebron in the finals so what does that tell you

[Clipper Nation]

As for 2011 it's a blemish and first thing thrown at Bron in any Jordan debate ...i cant defend it. His mental game hadnt caught up to his physical ...

DK had some epic chokes against the Pistons, too. The main difference is how each player responded to those moments. DK cried to Stern and got rules changed to make it easier for him to win. LeGOAT worked hard to improve himself as a player and leader and turned himself into a champion.

[140]

Lol MJ living rent free

[spurraider21]

Laimbeer

[daslicer]

Wow how shocking a nerdy white guy trying to garner attention on his twitter by cherry picking random stuff to pander to a large crowd of people that think MJ is not goat.

[ambchang]

Translation: they were stiffs who were handed roster spots because yesterday's NBA was dog .


Poor comparison. Shooting threes at a decent clip is a skill. Being a big stiff isn't.

Just like why Brent price had a job in the 90s. Is it a skill? Sure but so is knowing when to clog the lane and delivering hard fouls.

poor comparison shooting is a fundamental skill required to play basketball. standing in the middle of the lane and waiting to body slam someone isnt it.

not surprised though. big men in the 80’s were influenced by WWF culture where being a goon is considered a skill

So is getting rebounds and stopping people. That’s what mokeski and Feuer were doing. That was heir role. Roy Hibbert did precisely and got a huge contract.

Sure, team defense matters ... but it starts wih the primary defender and if he is slow and unathletic its tough ...those guys i mentioned at times were anchored by the likes of Austin Carr or even brad Daugherty ...(who are not very quick black guys) LeBron is still a problem for a good team defense with athletes, physically, due to his blend of size/speed. Give him a combo like the 90s Jazz with say Russell as the primary wing defender with a white backcourt and Greg Foster, Carr, Malone, Keefe and ostertag as bigs and Lebron is eating that up, period.
You know i defend mid 80's early 90s hoops its the era i grew up in. But Lebron has Karl Malone type size but Dominque/Jordan explosiveness .If Jordan was a physical mismatch for that era Lebron would be more so ...that being said ... i still think MJ is greater, despite Lebron being the greater talent ... is due to MJ's fundamentals and mindset.

As for 2011 it's a blemish and first thing thrown at Bron in any Jordan debate ...i cant defend it. His mental game hadnt caught up to his physical ...

Look, I actually like lebron way more than MJ, I think lebron does make society a better place while MJ is a horrible person and a coon, but to put evything from an athletic perspective is ridiculous. Benoit banjamin was huge, so was Kandi man. They had all the physical tools but were generally horrible. Kemp had lebron’s athleticism ( a little bigger/stronger without the vision or skills) but it didn’t lead to multiple MVPs. Sometimes it’s more about the physical tools.

Bowen wasn’t that athletic, neither was duncan especially in the later years but they were damn fine defenders. Even Kyle Anderson is pretty good now.

KAT is a freak of nature but not much of a defender. So is unibrow. It’s more about positioning and anticipation.

[ambchang]

Translation: they were stiffs who were handed roster spots because yesterday's NBA was dog .


Poor comparison. Shooting threes at a decent clip is a skill. Being a big stiff isn't.

poor comparison shooting is a fundamental skill required to play basketball. standing in the middle of the lane and waiting to body slam someone isnt it.

not surprised though. big men in the 80’s were influenced by WWF culture where being a goon is considered a skill

DK had some epic chokes against the Pistons, too. The main difference is how each player responded to those moments. DK cried to Stern and got rules changed to make it easier for him to win. LeGOAT worked hard to improve himself as a player and leader and turned himself into a champion.

Lebron sure worked hard to colude. Made two damn calls.

[djohn2oo8]

Lebron sure worked hard to colude. Made two damn calls.

lol

[LkrFan]

hey i cant soeak for my boy lakerfan but at face value its about Bron vs MJ

Besides who (outside of a few loons on LG) still argue Kobe vs MJ?! ...at best, you vould argue Kobe has a more polished skillset (footwork) and deeper range ...but MJ is clearly the greater player with the better career.
Sequels or copies are usually never as good as the original.

These farmers got a hard-on for Kobe. I could be talking about who had a better rack: Dolly Parton or Stormy Daniels - and these gots still would bring up Kobe

[spurraider21]

hornacek bigger than jet

bowen also said MJ was the hardest person to guard

the would bowen know. he played like 1 season during MJ's bulls run

[lefty]

the would bowen know. he played like 1 season during MJ's bulls run

[Killakobe81]

Just like why Brent price had a job in the 90s. Is it a skill? Sure but so is knowing when to clog the lane and delivering hard fouls.



So is getting rebounds and stopping people. That’s what mokeski and Feuer were doing. That was heir role. Roy Hibbert did precisely and got a huge contract.



Look, I actually like lebron way more than MJ, I think lebron does make society a better place while MJ is a horrible person and a coon, but to put evything from an athletic perspective is ridiculous. Benoit banjamin was huge, so was Kandi man. They had all the physical tools but were generally horrible. Kemp had lebron’s athleticism ( a little bigger/stronger without the vision or skills) but it didn’t lead to multiple MVPs. Sometimes it’s more about the physical tools.

Bowen wasn’t that athletic, neither was duncan especially in the later years but they were damn fine defenders. Even Kyle Anderson is pretty good now.

KAT is a freak of nature but not much of a defender. So is unibrow. It’s more about positioning and anticipation.

Best defenders i have seen:
Pistons era Rodman
Mike Cooper
Kiwi pre injury
David Robinson
KG
Pippen
The Glove
Bowen
Young Tony Allen
Hakeem
gtown era and first few years pro Ewing
Alonzo
Dikembe
Duncan
Jkidd
Draymond
missing a few guys I am sure ...but if you look at that list only Duncan, Bowen and Dikembe are not uber athletic ...but Bowen and Duncan in their primes were good not great athletes imho but you are right they do rely more on positioning and smarts. All that being said when you add Jordan/LeBron/Kobe/Wade who are great defenders when focused, it seems to me that great athleticism is a more desirable trait than the smarts/positioning guys.

if i could pick a dream starting team of defenders ...
Rodman Pippen kiwi Gp Robinson are all good to great athletes with length and athleticism ...I challenge you you to find a better and more verastile group of defenders that are truly athletically challenged, even if i spot you mutumbo and Bowen ...who i wouldnt call that but ill let you cheat ...and take both ...

[ambchang]

Best defenders i have seen:
Pistons era Rodman
Mike Cooper
Kiwi pre injury
David Robinson
KG
Pippen
The Glove
Bowen
Young Tony Allen
Hakeem
gtown era and first few years pro Ewing
Alonzo
Dikembe
Duncan
Jkidd
Draymond
missing a few guys I am sure ...but if you look at that list only Duncan, Bowen and Dikembe are not uber athletic ...but Bowen and Duncan in their primes were good not great athletes imho but you are right they do rely more on positioning and smarts. All that being said when you add Jordan/LeBron/Kobe/Wade who are great defenders when focused, it seems to me that great athleticism is a more desirable trait than the smarts/positioning guys.

if i could pick a dream starting team of defenders ...
Rodman Pippen kiwi Gp Robinson are all good to great athletes with length and athleticism ...I challenge you you to find a better and more verastile group of defenders that are truly athletically challenged, even if i spot you mutumbo and Bowen ...who i wouldnt call that but ill let you cheat ...and take both ...

I’m not saying being athletically challenged is an advantage, of course not, I’m saying you can be a great defender without being a great athlete. So the premise of looking at some guy and determine that he is not a great defender because he doesn’t look athletic bleeds of ignorance. Some other guys include Dumars and Dennis Johnson. Ben Wallace wasn’t all that athletic either. And Larry bird was extremely slow but a surprisingly good defender.

For all timers, I’d put Moncrief there. I think sheed was criminally underrated as a defender.
Some other

[Killakobe81]

I’m not saying being athletically challenged is an advantage, of course not, I’m saying you can be a great defender without being a great athlete. So the premise of looking at some guy and determine that he is not a great defender because he doesn’t look athletic bleeds of ignorance. Some other guys include Dumars and Dennis Johnson. Ben Wallace wasn’t all that athletic either. And Larry bird was extremely slow but a surprisingly good defender.

For all timers, I’d put Moncrief there. I think sheed was criminally underrated as a defender.
Some other

moncrief very good athlete ...36 inch vert
Ben Wallace very good athlete ..37 inch vetical over 7 foot 6 wingspan (not very good examples, mate)
Dumars and DJ above average ...but ill give you those ...

my point wasnt that unathletic dudes cant defend just LeBron is such a rare and special athlete that unathletic smart guys have no shot at defending him ...
Out of guys ive seen in person as freakish athletes ...its in shape Shaq and Lebron first with Robinson a close third. Those 3 guys were the most fluid of the BIG athletes i ever seen live and in person. And if you put any of the guys you mentioned (nom athletes) on Bron they have no shot ...none. Sometimes even if you have good team defense, if the primary defender cant hold him off until the rotations can come none of the rest matters ...

Btw when everyone flocked to the Bulls the Sonics were my mistress when Lakers sucked ...loved Kemp great athlete in any era and even he wasnt the all around athlete Lebron is ...better leaper and explosion at the rim but end to end on the move... I would take Bron who has waaaaaay better body control and change of direction.

[ambchang]

moncrief very good athlete ...36 inch vert
Ben Wallace very good athlete ..37 inch vetical over 7 foot 6 wingspan (not very good examples, mate)
Dumars and DJ above average ...but ill give you those ...

my point wasnt that unathletic dudes cant defend just LeBron is such a rare and special athlete that unathletic smart guys have no shot at defending him ...
Out of guys ive seen in person as freakish athletes ...its in shape Shaq and Lebron first with Robinson a close third. Those 3 guys were the most fluid of the BIG athletes i ever seen live and in person. And if you put any of the guys you mentioned (nom athletes) on Bron they have no shot ...none. Sometimes even if you have good team defense, if the primary defender cant hold him off until the rotations can come none of the rest matters ...

Btw when everyone flocked to the Bulls the Sonics were my mistress when Lakers sucked ...loved Kemp great athlete in any era and even he wasnt the all around athlete Lebron is ...better leaper and explosion at the rim but end to end on the move... I would take Bron who has waaaaaay better body control and change of direction.

Didn’t mean Moncrief wasn’t a great athlete. I was just pointing out You missed him as an all timer. Didn’t realize Wallace was so athletic. I thought he was ok. In the Ratliff mode.

Robinson was still a great defender after he got old and most of his athleticism was gone. He was just a natural smart defender. Shaq was never a good defender and other than him not being mobile enough, he just wasn’t willing to put I the effort. Lebron is on and off.

And my point is lebron can be stopped by unathletic guys. Old kids, fat Diaw, old Marion. Yes they were tremendous in their younger days but when they were stopping lebron they were way past their primes. Even Bowen guarded lebron one on one in the 2007 finals at times and did a great job.

My list of crazy athlete is similar as yours. Pippen has to be there too. The guy was ridiculously fast.

[Killakobe81]

Didn’t mean Moncrief wasn’t a great athlete. I was just pointing out You missed him as an all timer. Didn’t realize Wallace was so athletic. I thought he was ok. In the Ratliff mode.

Robinson was still a great defender after he got old and most of his athleticism was gone. He was just a natural smart defender. Shaq was never a good defender and other than him not being mobile enough, he just wasn’t willing to put I the effort. Lebron is on and off.

And my point is lebron can be stopped by unathletic guys. Old kids, fat Diaw, old Marion. Yes they were tremendous in their younger days but when they were stopping lebron they were way past their primes. Even Bowen guarded lebron one on one in the 2007 finals at times and did a great job.

My list of crazy athlete is similar as yours. Pippen has to be there too. The guy was ridiculously fast.

Sure but a former great athlete still has that in them ...look at VC who occasionally still dunks ...heck when i lost my hops lateral quickness i still had great hands anticipation etc ...i was a great defender in HS ...but i wouldnt trade my improved smarts for the elite speed and hops i had even though im also much stronger now.

And the #1 trait for great defenders is desire ...like you said, plenty great athletes are poor or uninterested on defense. and some not so good ones are great willing defenders.

as for moncrief saw his tail end of his prime whenbhe was winning dpoty i was so young and not a lot of bucks,games broadcast on CBS ...lakers only played them twice
.. but i know he waa very good on d.