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He’s deserving for sure. I definitely think he changes the team defensively for the better.
He’s deserving for sure. I definitely think he changes the team defensively for the better.
called Murray's defense & rebounding back in the off-season. He always had the tools just had to put in the work
next season corner 3, & added strength so he can turn the corner at full speed & also not tear drop every time he's in the paint
he reminds me of rondo minus the natural passing ability
which is exactly Rondo's best skill
Pelton. Dude has been wrong about almost everything, yet people keep thinking he's some guru.
Who knows about Murray's selectability though? I don't think he's that good of a defender, but most guards selected to the teams aren't. Someone has to get credit for SA's defense.
Plus, if the Spurs are going to try to use Murray as a chip in a trade for the second year in a row, having an All-Defense accolade would help.
So hes got ty bbiq, cant shoot, cant pass, cant run a fast break, hes just really weak and thin. Got it.
I think he’s getting credit, while Kyle got snubbed. It doesn’t matter bc I think when Murray has been at his best he really has changed games defensively and from the pG position there’s few that have been better than him and that’s only bc they are veterans and experienced whereas Murray still fouls too much for example. He gets a huge boost for his rebounding ability but have no problem with him getting accolades.
Danny is not getting it this year IMO. Statistically Murray and Anderson are more impactful. He’s missed a bunch of games due to injury and him going to the bench probably closed the book on him. He hasn’t been impressive lately either.
Agreed....when he was a Celtic in the early years rondo was a bad boy on the defensive end
not enough flying, over-aggressive closeouts for your liking?
I also don’t think Murray will be traded. IMHO unless it’s for someone so talented that the trade will be vetoed by other team and not happen anyways if you get my drift.
Aka at spurstalk dumb fans overvalue below average players. Since kyle or murray wont fetch harden or james straight up, other gms must not know their true value
I'd like to see LMA or Kyle get nods before DJ.
This. Kyle is 100 times the defender murray is. Murray hustles recovers batted balls to get steals, which is his best attribute. But so many times i try to post when he is out of position on d during in game threads i cant keep up. Yet. Here we are
He's not making it. Since defense is still more difficult to quantify than offense, reputation still plays a significant factor in the awards, especially for those who lack pedigree.
If/when he ends up a long term starter here, I have no doubt he'll eventually make it though and when he does, he should remain a perennial candidate through his prime.
I take it you don't watch the games? Murray does that just as much as anyone ... which is why his most elite defensive analytic is spot-up defense. But I guess it's easier to make a lame rebuttal than to actually know what you're talking about.
Anyway, I think his man defense is really chaotic and that he gets a way with an absurd amount of contact. That he gets a generous whistle isn't a bad thing, but I don't believe it's something that will hold up once teams start baiting him into making more obvious fouls or even just when stars start getting more calls in the playoffs. Even outside of that, Murray's a huge beneficiary of confirmation bias. Games like OKC get touted as great efforts on D, when Westbrook threw careless pass after careless pass and had a terrible shot-selection. As we should all know, "shutting down" Westbrook is like 90-percent dependent on whether Russ brings his triple-digit or double-digit IQ to a given game. Yet, here we are, acting like something special happened.
i was making a joke based on past discussions... that wasn't actual analysis of murray
stop with the analytics and just watch the games.
DJ 's defense > Danny's
murray's man to man defense is still solid, and his off-ball playmaking has looked just as good as kawhi's tbh... and that's saying something. he has also yet to turn 22, so there's still plenty of room for him to develop maturity on that end and be a little less careless with his reaching.
he's great defensively in nearly every metric.
he's #1 in DRPM among point guards. tied for #1 in D BPM among all point guards. his on/off defensive numbers. #3 among all guards in d-rating (Fultz has a tiny sample size and is ahead of him. roberson is the other guy ahead of him and he only played half a season). his on/off numbers are stellar
You'll have to look very hard to find evidence of me saying Murray's defensive potential is low. So they whole "he's going to get better" angle doesn't really play here. Like TD21 said, I have little doubt that Murray will be a perennial All-D candidate, unless he gets an offensive game and then starts to slack off. Voters love steals and blocks for guards, and Murray's going to get those. As I mentioned, I don't think he would even be a bad selection this year. I'd obviously much rather Murray get it than no one on SA. But I also feel I'm more mindful of Murray's defensive holes than most posters here, even though there have been a number of pieces posted on this site from people who've actually analyzed what DeJounte is doing and coming back with negative or lack-luster verdicts. This is not just me being a hater or something.
Murray's numbers have been on the decline for more than two months now. They used to be ungodly and are now just well-above average. Obviously well-above average is really good, but in order to get there, Murray had to be worse than that. I don't have access to the data, but I assume DeJounte's more recent impact stats are not all that impressive. Harlem pointed this out a little while ago, as well as using Pau's drop as another example.
i never said you downplayed his potential. that was an aside point.
Do you see anyone getting credit for the Spurs defense then?
With all due respect to Chinook, Danny hasn't been spectacular this year, there is no signature game from him like there was last year where he really stood out. Meantime Dejounte has had some spectacular games including one with 7 steals against the cavs and the one against Westbrook.
Overall the star is probably Lamarcus though the stats don't favor him over other big men. When he sits the Spurs are pretty bad overall no matter if Murray, Kyle or Danny are playing. One just has to watch games Lamarcus missed to see how terrible they are then.
I'd like someone to get credit this year, but maybe no one does, which would be a shame.
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