Derrick White

[spurraider21]

forbes has been a tier version of gary neal, white is more of an all around player and isn't a weak link on defense like forbes/mills

[tholdren]

What is sad is that you can’t see how Bad Forbes Sucks. The dude make Mills look good no way should he be on a team that has any thoughts of going to the playoffs.

As far as Murray he is getting better and has a much higher upside then No Defense Midgit Forbes. Is he our best PG I would say No and I would say that if given a fair chance White should be our starting PG next year. But Murray should be the backup and you can probably play both at the same time.

Forbes is the best three point shooter on the team. Statistically. And he is the only spur that can create instant offense or get a shot off anywhere on the court off the dribble.

[tholdren]

No, he didn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...orbebr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com...hitede01d.html

Bryn did outshoot him, though. Everything else only looks like a compe ion because White played 20-percent fewer minutes per game.



Not really:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

White has easily outplayed Bryn in his limited NBA time. I'm all willing to say that Derrick doesn't have a big enough sample, but that's Pop's fault.



OMG, it's not. I'm apparently the bigger Murray-hater on this site, but I have no problem admitting he's been way better than Forbes overall. Bryn should definitely not be the top guard in the rotation.



That's fine if you think that. White is still a better two-guard than Forbes whether Pop plays him there or not.

Why would you play your best ball handler at sg if your pg cant dribble or pass. It serves zero purpose. I will wait

[SpursDynasty85]

No, he didn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...orbebr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com...hitede01d.html

Bryn did outshoot him, though. Everything else only looks like a compe ion because White played 20-percent fewer minutes per game.



Not really:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

White has easily outplayed Bryn in his limited NBA time. I'm all willing to say that Derrick doesn't have a big enough sample, but that's Pop's fault.



OMG, it's not. I'm apparently the bigger Murray-hater on this site, but I have no problem admitting he's been way better than Forbes overall. Bryn should definitely not be the top guard in the rotation.



That's fine if you think that. White is still a better two-guard than Forbes whether Pop plays him there or not.

Thanks for posting the stats and everything. I will retract my statement of "way better" but Forbes did outshoot him pretty clearly and had a very good summer league before the season started which includes looking better than Dejounte during that time. Dejounte looked terrible other than a handful of games this season. Same can be said for Forbes but he has great confidence in his shot as do the coaches. When he is open from what I've seen he converts. You shouldn't compare Derrick Whites numbers in the NBA this season since most of them were garbage minutes and very situational. Forbes on the other hand of course is not going to look good when Spurs have had such an up and down season with Kawhi out and the lineup changing every week.

[Leetonidas]

"Forbes is the best three point shooter on the team"

[SpursDynasty85]

"Forbes is the best three point shooter on the team"

In a 3 pt shooting contest I'm pretty sure Forbes wins on the Spurs which is probably why he is still in the rotation. Spurs coaching staff aren't stupid. They evaluate these players daily.

[tholdren]

"Forbes is the best three point shooter on the team"

Please see 3pt percentage....

[Chinook]

Why would you play your best ball handler at sg if your pg cant dribble or pass. It serves zero purpose. I will wait

Because positions are only as important as the limitations of your players. White can handle the ball plenty as an SG, and he can slide over to the primary ball-handler when Murray is on the bench. Agree or disagree, SA is playing Murray at the one because they want to, and they continue to do so for the same reason. White gives them what they need for a guard next to Murray, so they can fit together.

[Chinook]

Thanks for posting the stats and everything. I will retract my statement of "way better" but Forbes did outshoot him pretty clearly and had a very good summer league before the season started which includes looking better than Dejounte during that time. Dejounte looked terrible other than a handful of games this season. Same can be said for Forbes but he has great confidence in his shot as do the coaches. When he is open from what I've seen he converts. You shouldn't compare Derrick Whites numbers in the NBA this season since most of them were garbage minutes and very situational. Forbes on the other hand of course is not going to look good when Spurs have had such an up and down season with Kawhi out and the lineup changing every week.

Context matters. Forbes looked good when everyone let him do what he wanted. Some guys excel in that regard, and others don't. I fully expect White to have a strong summer league if he's able to participate. That was his very first taste of anything near NBA action. Just as Forbes got better from his first to second SL, so too will White. Murray's the only one who played worse. Obviously by this point in the season, there are much better sample sizes out there than those old tourney, however.

[BackHome]

White is a starter Forbes at best is 15th man or G League

[spurraider21]

Thanks for posting the stats and everything. I will retract my statement of "way better" but Forbes did outshoot him pretty clearly and had a very good summer league before the season started which includes looking better than Dejounte during that time. Dejounte looked terrible other than a handful of games this season. Same can be said for Forbes but he has great confidence in his shot as do the coaches. When he is open from what I've seen he converts. You shouldn't compare Derrick Whites numbers in the NBA this season since most of them were garbage minutes and very situational. Forbes on the other hand of course is not going to look good when Spurs have had such an up and down season with Kawhi out and the lineup changing every week.

forbes was scoring a lot in the summer league while shooting 40% from the field

[tholdren]

Because positions are only as important as the limitations of your players. White can handle the ball plenty as an SG, and he can slide over to the primary ball-handler when Murray is on the bench. Agree or disagree, SA is playing Murray at the one because they want to, and they continue to do so for the same reason. White gives them what they need for a guard next to Murray, so they can fit together.

I agree w your take on positions. But i think you fall off on what white can do part.

Watch murray. 90 percent of the time he dribbles to a trap spot. Passes to the wing and trots to the corner. Its like a back up pg in high school. So again why wouldnt murray just play the 2... aka not bring it up the floor? What will white do next to murray that he wouldnt do next to forbes. In fact you may say that pairing him w forbes would be better because youre going to cheat if youre defending murray, and you arent going to let forbes shoot. Makes no sense

And really hes a nothing on offense if not a handicap. Your best bet is him being disruptive on d. Which is not any better than hoping forbes can be disruptive on offense.

[SpursDynasty85]

forbes was scoring a lot in the summer league while shooting 40% from the field

Nitpicking stats. Well then compare Forbes shooting % for g league to White. I'm not arguing he is better than White but White wasn't going to help us this year anyway. It's a mute point. Forbes at least gives us spacing and shooting. Forbes is a better spot up shooter than White.

[Chinook]

I agree w your take on positions. But i think you fall off on what white can do part.

Watch murray. 90 percent of the time he dribbles to a trap spot. Passes to the wing and trots to the corner. Its like a back up pg in high school. So again why wouldnt murray just play the 2... aka not bring it up the floor? What will white do next to murray that he wouldnt do next to forbes. In fact you may say that pairing him w forbes would be better because youre going to cheat if youre defending murray, and you arent going to let forbes shoot. Makes no sense

And really hes a nothing on offense if not a handicap. Your best bet is him being disruptive on d. Which is not any better than hoping forbes can be disruptive on offense.

You'll get no argument from me that Murray's career arc depends heavily on him getting something consistent on offense. I even said so either upthread or in another thread. A Murray who never improves from here is going to be a back-up long term. I am not as down on his current skills as you seem to be (I think he's poor but not horrific dribbling and actually think he has an unselfish mentality passing-wise that is only being held back through inexperience). A Murray who can't shoot is no more a shooting-guard than he is a point-guard. On the ball, he may have some issues, but off the ball, he's going to have nothing to do but go for offensive boards, which is usually a bad thing for transition defense (and we've been seeing that).

I disagree somewhat on the idea that White needs to bring the ball up the floor and that doing so is a PG's job. Pop has consistently pushed for there being multiple guys who can take a rebound or outlet pass and get offense into position. To that end, only Green and the centers really don't do so, and Danny will if he's the pressure release. Murray, like most other Spurs, usually dribbles to the ball to one of the wings then kicks it out to the trailing big to start one of the Motion sets. I don't usually find fault with his handling here. Most of the time he gets in trouble, it's when he moves inside the three-point line or when he's otherwise attacking.

[tholdren]

You'll get no argument from me that Murray's career arc depends heavily on him getting something consistent on offense. I even said so either upthread or in another thread. A Murray who never improves from here is going to be a back-up long term. I am not as down on his current skills as you seem to be (I think he's poor but not horrific dribbling and actually think he has an unselfish mentality passing-wise that is only being held back through inexperience). A Murray who can't shoot is no more a shooting-guard than he is a point-guard. On the ball, he may have some issues, but off the ball, he's going to have nothing to do but go for offensive boards, which is usually a bad thing for transition defense (and we've been seeing that).

I disagree somewhat on the idea that White needs to bring the ball up the floor and that doing so is a PG's job. Pop has consistently pushed for there being multiple guys who can take a rebound or outlet pass and get offense into position. To that end, only Green and the centers really don't do so, and Danny will if he's the pressure release. Murray, like most other Spurs, usually dribbles to the ball to one of the wings then kicks it out to the trailing big to start one of the Motion sets. I don't usually find fault with his handling here. Most of the time he gets in trouble, it's when he moves inside the three-point line or when he's otherwise attacking.

Tony didnt do that every time, nor manu. Watch white. His handles vision and iq are just so much better. Taking it oit of whites hand to murray is like chris paul to danny green

[Ice009]

Same can be said for Forbes but he has great confidence in his shot as do the coaches. When he is open from what I've seen he converts. You shouldn't compare Derrick Whites numbers in the NBA this season since most of them were garbage minutes and very situational. Forbes on the other hand of course is not going to look good when Spurs have had such an up and down season with Kawhi out and the lineup changing every week.

All I've seen from Bryn when open is bricks from just over 50% of his shots. An elite shooter shouldn't miss less than 50% of his shots when wide open. With those same wide open looks, Gary Neal would have been converting over 50% of those shots. I don't give a how good of a shooter he is in an open gym. For whatever reason, that's not translating to games. Like Kawhi once said, it's about taking what you do in the gym and being able to do it in games. He said there's lots of players that are great in the gym, but they aren't able to do it in the games.

[SpursDynasty85]

All I've seen from Bryn when open is bricks from just over 50% of his shots. An elite shooter shouldn't miss less than 50% of his shots when wide open. With those same wide open looks, Gary Neal would have been converting over 50% of those shots. I don't give a how good of a shooter he is in an open gym. For whatever reason, that's not translating to games. Like Kawhi once said, it's about taking what you do in the gym and being able to do it in games. He said there's lots of players that are great in the gym, but they aren't able to do it in the games.

Patty and Green were considered elite shooters too but Forbes is shooting a better percentage from the 3 than them. Without a true playmaker to give open shots to everyone all our below avg shooting guards will struggle. If you can't see Bryn is a pretty good shooter than I guess that's your problem.

[DJR210]

Hey, we're paying Kawhi 19 million not even to show up for home games these days.

At least he has elite talent when his vagina heals

But yeah..

231,707.00 a game to milk some soreness

[Ice009]

Patty and Green were considered elite shooters too but Forbes is shooting a better percentage from the 3 than them. Without a true playmaker to give open shots to everyone all our below avg shooting guards will struggle. If you can't see Bryn is a pretty good shooter than I guess that's your problem.

I've seen him miss too many open shots to consider him an elite in game shooter. He might be elite in the gym, but not in actual NBA games against the best teams.

[BillMc]

231,707.00 a game to milk some soreness

Man, you'd think he'd try and play....

[duncan2150]

I still didn’t understand Why people keep thinking forbes is an nba player.

His qualities are scoring, shooting and even on this side he’s not that good, 42% 65% ft. He can’t do Nothing except scoring, he’s a liability on defense, late on every screen.

he doesn’t have the size, speed To be at least a rotation player.

[boutons_deux]

Man, you'd think he'd try and play....

he tried, his chronic pathology said No Mas

[dbestpro]

Forbes is the best shooter on the team, and the worst defender. Whatever he scores, he turns around and gives up on defense. White can serve as a better all around player.

[tholdren]

Forbes is the best shooter on the team, and the worst defender. Whatever he scores, he turns around and gives up on defense. White can serve as a better all around player.

And even worse can be said about murray. Hes a decent defender but so bad on offense. Like tiago. Or how many on here were saying pau was.... all wrong

[BackHome]

I am glad some Posters are finally changing there mind about White the dude is legit