Knife Control

[Chris]

its not about sense of security, it’s about knowing you can respond to a crisis


I own a gun tbh. Didn’t spend money on one, my dad handed it down. Though will probably get rid of it when my family size grows beyond 2

I'm sure your dad would be proud that you are getting rid of a sentimental hand me down for David Hogg.

[Expert]

its not about sense of security, it’s about knowing you can respond to a crisis


I own a gun tbh. Didn’t spend money on one, my dad handed it down. Though will probably get rid of it when my family size grows beyond 2

I didn't say you don't own a gun. I said "non-gun".

Ask any cop why they carry a gun. See if they talk about sense of security. Since you don't carry and really know nothing of it, you have no idea so you're left to speculate.
Does your spare tire give you a sense of security and if so, is that why you have one?

[Expert]

What I actually said

It's about having the ability to respond under crisis situation if one ever developed.

What you claim I said

its not about sense of security, it’s about knowing you can respond to a crisis

Changing my words to try to show a conflict is a cheap, predictable tactic that happens here constantly. I intentionally did not use the word "knowing". You added it though.

Noted as well that a gun person would never use a child as a reason to get rid of a gun, because that's worth protecting. Obviously you shouldn't have the gun now if you cannot control it.

[Spurminator]

There is almost no difference in the phrase "knowing you can respond" vs "having the ability to respond." Certainty in the effectiveness of results is not implied by either.

[Expert]

All of this because I suggested that London might be better off with their gangs armed with knives than guns. I think the stray bullet thing is pretty objectively a winning argument in favor of knives being preferable. But it's hardly worth pages and pages of discussion, so... I take it you believe it's preferable to loosen gun restrictions in London so those gangs will shoot each other instead of stabbing each other? What's your opinion on London's stabbing epidemic?

People will kill people they want to kill. If the number is the same, it doesn't matter if it's a gun or a knife.

[Spurminator]

Carrying a gun isn't about having a sense of security.

Noted as well that a gun person would never use a child as a reason to get rid of a gun, because that's worth protecting.

There it is again.

[Expert]

There is almost no difference in the phrase "knowing you can respond" vs "having the ability to respond." Certainty in the effectiveness of results is not implied by either.

There is a huge difference. One infers a state of being. The other refers to a state of knowing. You can feel safe and not be safe. I never said I know I can respond. I plainly said you might not respond, you might respond wrong. That means you don't know, unless you struggle with epistemology.

If you don't have a gun, you know then that you cannot respond.

[Spurminator]

People will kill people they want to kill. If the number is the same, it doesn't matter if it's a gun or a knife.

You don't know what the number would be if they used guns instead of knives.

[Chris]

There is almost no difference in the phrase "knowing you can respond" vs "having the ability to respond." Certainty in the effectiveness of results is not implied by either.

There's a huge difference

[Expert]

There it is again.

So SR21 right now has a sense of security because he owns a gun (a false sense as well according to him) but that sense of security will become a sense of fear once a child is born?

Or

SR21 now has a gun and has the ability to respond if he so chooses, whether he has any feelings at all about it, but once he thinks about it a sense of risk vs reward sets in and he might opt to sell the gun once a child is born?

Which of these infers a sense of security? The last one, because he feels more secure getting rid of the gun. He doesn't know the outcome, and it's no longer about an ability to respond.

[Spurminator]

There is a huge difference. One infers a state of being. The other refers to a state of knowing. You can feel safe and not be safe. I never said I know I can respond. I plainly said you might not respond, you might respond wrong. That means you don't know, unless you struggle with epistemology.

If you don't have a gun, you know then that you cannot respond.

"I have a gun so I know I can respond in a crisis."

"I have a gun so I'll have the ability to respond in a crisis."

You might have intended it differently, but both those sentences mean the exact same thing and accusing spuraider21 of misrepresenting what you said is a chicken diversion.

[Expert]

You don't know what the number would be if they used guns instead of knives.

The number is given. In NY there were 32 gun related fatalities. In London there were 31 knife related fatalities.

[Spurminator]

There's a huge difference

Don't @ me until you have the nuts to answer my questions, loser.

[Spurminator]

The number is given. In NY there were 32 gun related fatalities. In London there were 31 knife related fatalities.

This is false logic. London and New York are different cities. You don't know what those numbers would be if the weapons were reversed.

Incidentally, both cities have seen their murder rates drastically drop since increased gun legislation was enacted. Chris could have told you this but he's hiding.

[Expert]

"I have a gun so I know I can respond in a crisis."

"I have a gun so I'll have the ability to respond in a crisis."

You might have intended it differently, but both those sentences mean the exact same thing and accusing spuraider21 of misrepresenting what you said is a chicken diversion.

You added a word on your own - "know". If it's the same, why do you need to add that word? My quote is there in bold letters, separated out for your convenience. Unless you're going for a solipsism, which it seems you are, then having the ability to do something isn't the same as having knowledge of it. The goal of having an ability (to dunk, for instance) isn't the same as the goal to have the knowledge that you can. That knowledge might come with the ability, but it's not the goal.

So I don't carry a gun to make me feel safe. It doesn't make me feel safe. In fact, just the opposite. I makes me feel like I could cause more problems than it's worth, but it provides the ability to respond. We all do things because it appeases our inner needs, so if you want to equate everything we do to addressing a feeling, go for it.

[Spurminator]

So SR21 right now has a sense of security because he owns a gun (a false sense as well according to him) but that sense of security will become a sense of fear once a child is born?

Or

SR21 now has a gun and has the ability to respond if he so chooses, whether he has any feelings at all about it, but once he thinks about it a sense of risk vs reward sets in and he might opt to sell the gun once a child is born?

Which of these infers a sense of security? The last one, because he feels more secure getting rid of the gun. He doesn't know the outcome, and it's no longer about an ability to respond.

All of these scenarios involve security in one way or another. Different people weigh the potential scenarios differently. You're overthinking it.

[Expert]

This is false logic. London and New York are different cities. You don't know what those numbers would be if the weapons were reversed.

Incidentally, both cities have seen their murder rates drastically drop since increased gun legislation was enacted. Chris could have told you this but he's hiding.

Different cities until the anti-gun crowd wants to cite results of a gun ban. The weapons weren't reversed. They have knives in NY too.

[Expert]

All of these scenarios involve security in one way or another. Different people weigh the potential scenarios differently. You're overthinking it.

No, you're using solipsism which is an amateur way of trying to win by default. Everything we ever do is based on a feeling. We are nothing more than thoughts and feelings. So nothing is real, there's only a feeling that it is.

[monosylab1k]

No one said knives are better killing tools than guns.

Thank you.

[Spurminator]

Different cities until the anti-gun crowd wants to cite results of a gun ban.

It's reasonable and appropriate to use results in both cities to show a trend, particularly when the trend is about a difference in rate vs. raw numbers.

The weapons weren't reversed. They have knives in NY too.

You said "gun related fatalities."

[Expert]

Regardless, the goalposts moved. The original word was "sense". Sense of something and knowledge of something are not the same things. I said I don't carry for a sense of security. It's more a sense of responsibility. The former implies irrational fear, the latter implies being pro-active an self sufficient.

If you think these word differences don't matter to a lawyer, you need to think again.

[Chris]

This is false logic. London and New York are different cities. You don't know what those numbers would be if the weapons were reversed.

Incidentally, both cities have seen their murder rates drastically drop since increased gun legislation was enacted. Chris could have told you this but he's hiding.

See: Roe v. Wade

[Expert]

Thank you.

For what, catching you up?

[monosylab1k]

For what, catching you up?

You know why. Keep it up tho.

[Spurminator]

No, you're using solipsism which is an amateur way of trying to win by default. Everything we ever do is based on a feeling. We are nothing more than thoughts and feelings. So nothing is real, there's only a feeling that it is.

I'm not trying to win anything . You're putting immense effort into distancing yourself from the implication that your gun ownership is based in any way on security, and it's not necessary. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to feel secure. The original argument was whether guns objectively increase your security.