We have a shot at the reigning champs without their best player and you're medically

[DPG21920]

I don't remember if you were the one who essentially said this a little while back. But I disagreed with that then and disagree with it now. This has done permanent damage to my perception of Leonard. I can get behind the idea that the dude is legit hurt. I'm not saying I believe it, but if Kawhi and the team move on and stay together while maintaining that's what this was, I'll defer to them. However a) I'll never feel comfortable with that contract given his injury and b) I'll never trust him to handle a trying situation well, at least in terms of transparency to the media, fans and teammates. He can't come out of this unscathed in that regard. He's always going to look like a shaky bet to give the franchise to. I'd completely understand PATFO trading him even if I knew for sure Kawhi was just hurt and has recovered by the time next season rolls around.

Exactly. Him not playing was always the secondary issue. It’s how, as the face of a franchise, he’s handled the situation. There will be no crow to eat; he messed this up badly beyond the playing part. He had mending to do. Of course everyone will be happy when he stays (assuming he’s healthy).

[DPG21920]

There's really nothing favorable to Kawhi's career to purposely hold out. That's where I think all the doubters are wrong. I think, in his mind at least, that he's honestly incapable of playing. Remember, he's sat out before with very minor issues that most guys would have played with.

My concern is that Kawhi might decide he can't go at all if he's not 100%, and in that case his career is almost over. I doubt Tim, David or Manu felt 100%, ever, after about 5 years in the league. Tim's knees were "degenerative". The Admiral's back was "degenerative". Kawhi may have to face the fact that he might not get back to where he wants to be, health-wise, and decide whether or not he can play with constant pain. If not, he'll be done. I don't think it's selfishness. I just think he's not someone accustomed to dealing with injury or playing through it. The aging process won't treat him well if that's the case.

Did you see what happened to Isiah Thomas? There is absolutely something favorable, with a 219M contract (one of the biggest deals in nba history) on the line for Kawhi to sit out. That money dwarfs anything he will get else where (including endorsements).

For the most part no one seems to be mad he decided to sit out to help his chances at getting that 219M. The part that people are mad at is that he handled it in the worst way possible. You can train in SA. You can be present with the team and supporting them. You can give updates (even if that goes against what you like to do). You owe the franchise, teammates and the fans a of a lot more than Kawhi has given. Everyone would support him getting 100% healthy and not playing; people can’t support how he’s distanced himself, driven a wedge and gone full on radio silent as rumors swirled and everyone but him was left carrying that bag all damn season.

[DPG21920]

Also, the “Kawhi doesn’t play at less than 100%” angle doesn’t jive with me. Everything his college coaches and other say contradict that and they say he’s tough as nails and always played through injuries.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Did you see what happened to Isiah Thomas? There is absolutely something favorable, with a 219M contract (one of the biggest deals in nba history) on the line for Kawhi to sit out. That money dwarfs anything he will get else where (including endorsements).

For the most part no one seems to be mad he decided to sit out to help his chances at getting that 219M. The part that people are mad at is that he handled it in the worst way possible. You can train in SA. You can be present with the team and supporting them. You can give updates (even if that goes against what you like to do). You owe the franchise, teammates and the fans a of a lot more than Kawhi has given. Everyone would support him getting 100% healthy and not playing; people can’t support how he’s distanced himself, driven a wedge and gone full on radio silent as rumors swirled and everyone but him was left carrying that bag all damn season.

He definitely could benefit from some PR help. So could most of the folks in the Spurs organization though. I think he was managed badly, and handled things badly himself from a publicity and team relations standpoint, but I am still not convinced this is all just a contract ploy. I think he wants to be playing, but in his head he can't...I believe it's just that simple.

We'll see if I'm wrong here soon I suppose.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Also, the “Kawhi doesn’t play at less than 100%” angle doesn’t jive with me. Everything his college coaches and other say contradict that and they say he’s tough as nails and always played through injuries.

He's certainly not been an ironman in his time with the Spurs.

[offset formation]

Pretty much how I feel. It's hard for me to think Kawhi is being a little and instead is just being the mute he's always been.

Again, this isn't about the injury so much as it's been about the total disconnect he's shown with his teammates and coaches and by default, the lack of respect he's showing for the fans that pay his salary.

To what end?

Well letting your teammates think you are coming back multiple times in a season (see Manu's comments) such that a team meeting has to be called to find out WTF is going on and when you plan on being back--if at all this seaso--is a *big* problem.

And running off when that becomes public as though you no longer have a responsibility to your team even if from the bench.

And finally to that point, our team doctors report that he does not have any structural issues in his quad. They can evidently find no problems other than a pain management issue. So in that regard, I say for $19MM, you go out and play as you can under that pain, even if for a few minutes a game. Make others know they have to contend with you for 10-15 minutes, in crunch time. Or not in crunch time.

Either way, contribute in some way. Show the team and fan base you are involved. And care.

[offset formation]

Maybe Leonard likes trump and is teaching pop a lesson

That'll show him...and us, the fans. And you.

Transitive property says Kawhi just showed you, too.

How you like them apples?

[pookenstein]

Screw the idea of trading him for Fultz and a pick. I'd trade him there for a Philly cheesesteak. One whiz with, please. Make an example of this soft got.

What kind of an example would that be (if it was even possible)? Let's trade him, get nothing in return to strengthen your Team all the while the other Team keeps all their assets. That would be a blueprint for Players to act like Kawhi supposedly has, not setting an example for Teams how to handle situations similar to this.

[BillMc]

Oh yay, another thread

The "group" doctors would clear that horse before Kawhi.

[BillMc]

Again, this isn't about the injury so much as it's been about the total disconnect he's shown with his teammates and coaches and by default, the lack of respect he's showing for the fans that pay his salary.

To what end?

Well letting your teammates think you are coming back multiple times in a season (see Manu's comments) such that a team meeting has to be called to find out WTF is going on and when you plan on being back--if at all this seaso--is a *big* problem.

And running off when that becomes public as though you no longer have a responsibility to your team even if from the bench.

And finally to that point, our team doctors report that he does not have any structural issues in his quad. They can evidently find no problems other than a pain management issue. So in that regard, I say for $19MM, you go out and play as you can under that pain, even if for a few minutes a game. Make others know they have to contend with you for 10-15 minutes, in crunch time. Or not in crunch time.

Either way, contribute in some way. Show the team and fan base you are involved. And care.

[BillMc]

Did you see what happened to Isiah Thomas? There is absolutely something favorable, with a 219M contract (one of the biggest deals in nba history) on the line for Kawhi to sit out. That money dwarfs anything he will get else where (including endorsements).

For the most part no one seems to be mad he decided to sit out to help his chances at getting that 219M. The part that people are mad at is that he handled it in the worst way possible. You can train in SA. You can be present with the team and supporting them. You can give updates (even if that goes against what you like to do). You owe the franchise, teammates and the fans a of a lot more than Kawhi has given. Everyone would support him getting 100% healthy and not playing; people can’t support how he’s distanced himself, driven a wedge and gone full on radio silent as rumors swirled and everyone but him was left carrying that bag all damn season.

I kid you not, I'd be a full-on Kawhi supporter if he'd just have showed up on the bench recently and addressed the issue more than ONCE since 2018 began. I get the big money. I get (though don't condone) the only playing at 100%. I don't get the quitting on your team. Be in the stands. Be helping the younger guys. Be telling the fans you want to be out there....Don't leave it to your sister on a random tweet when she's trying to pimp your shoes.

[21209]

He already said he wants to be a Spur for life, he said he's injured, that can't have more setbacks..But he has to talk after every media rumor?

Why do you want him to talk when you didn't believe in his words the first time?

That was said before the Tony Parker comments and the team meeting with him.

Since, he's gone off to NY to be away from the team and hasn't been seen in weeks.

I didn't think there was discord between him and the team, prior, but I do now since said incidents.

[21209]

Additionally, without Kawhi, GS just got the best possible first round match-up they could have hoped for with Curry out.

[lefty20]

Man, some of you cats are cold-blooded.

Last year, Kawhi was the GOAT and the heir to Duncan's throne.

Less than a full year later, he is a wimp, a head-case, and a cancer.

I'm as disappointed with the situation as anyone, but damn...cool your jets people.

If Kawhi actually does come back healthy and sign his supermax, gonna be a lot of crow to be served up around here.

This is why I'm withholding my final judgement for now. Let's see where we're at next year. Kiwi's quiet personality is likely making this situation seem worse than it is.

[Arcadian]

As for whether Kawhi can be 'redeemed' - it will always suck that he missed an entire season of his prime, and nothing can ever really make up for that - however, I still think he can return to the same level of greatness he reached last season and possibly even surpass it. If he stayed with the Spurs and made a full recovery, I'd forgive but not forget.

[sananspursfan21]

The "group" doctors would clear that horse before Kawhi.

Well what size jersey you think he wears??

[BillMc]

Well what size jersey you think he wears??

Same as Dejuan Blair early years.

[duncan2k5]

Again, this isn't about the injury so much as it's been about the total disconnect he's shown with his teammates and coaches and by default, the lack of respect he's showing for the fans that pay his salary.

To what end?

Well letting your teammates think you are coming back multiple times in a season (see Manu's comments) such that a team meeting has to be called to find out WTF is going on and when you plan on being back--if at all this seaso--is a *big* problem.

And running off when that becomes public as though you no longer have a responsibility to your team even if from the bench.

And finally to that point, our team doctors report that he does not have any structural issues in his quad. They can evidently find no problems other than a pain management issue. So in that regard, I say for $19MM, you go out and play as you can under that pain, even if for a few minutes a game. Make others know they have to contend with you for 10-15 minutes, in crunch time. Or not in crunch time.

Either way, contribute in some way. Show the team and fan base you are involved. And care.

Why do ppl keep saying this? He didn't keep letting his teammates think he was coming back... He ACTUALLY CAME BACK! then after that was saying he will try his best to come back... What do u want him to do? Predict the future... The best he can do is try and hope to be ready for a certain time...

And we are just going to dismiss Danny Green and Pop saying he talks to the team and organization all the time? Ppl keep repeating Kawhi isolates himself from them, while his own teammate says he is there with them in the building all the time..

Once again, his teammates didn't call the meeting to find out what's going on... TONY PARKER did... And that speaks to his selfishness... I lost even more respect for Parker... The dude only cares about his career... Kawhi’s future... Smh...

Kawhi is injured and wants to come back... If he spoke to the media once a month, ppl on here would be saying he is a POS because he isn't speaking to the media once a week...

[duncan2k5]

I kid you not, I'd be a full-on Kawhi supporter if he'd just have showed up on the bench recently and addressed the issue more than ONCE since 2018 began. I get the big money. I get (though don't condone) the only playing at 100%. I don't get the quitting on your team. Be in the stands. Be helping the younger guys. Be telling the fans you want to be out there....Don't leave it to your sister on a random tweet when she's trying to pimp your shoes.

U don't even know what arrangements he and his teammates have... Pop himself said Kawhi is more useful rehabbing than sitting on the bench

[offset formation]

Why do ppl keep saying this? He didn't keep letting his teammates think he was coming back... He ACTUALLY CAME BACK! then after that was saying he will try his best to come back... What do u want him to do? Predict the future... The best he can do is try and hope to be ready for a certain time...

And we are just going to dismiss Danny Green and Pop saying he talks to the team and organization all the time? Ppl keep repeating Kawhi isolates himself from them, while his own teammate says he is there with them in the building all the time..

Once again, his teammates didn't call the meeting to find out what's going on... TONY PARKER did... And that speaks to his selfishness... I lost even more respect for Parker... The dude only cares about his career... Kawhi’s future... Smh...

Kawhi is injured and wants to come back... If he spoke to the media once a month, ppl on here would be saying he is a POS because he isn't speaking to the media once a week...

Look man, unlike others on here that are calling you guys out for your support of Kawhi, I respect the fact that you have his back.

I get that one could still see it from his side. I just passed that threshold myself. To me it's quite obvious that he quit on the team. I think his communication, even for him, has been pathetic. I disagree with you that Manu (and his teammates) didn't think he was coming back multiple times..."we fell for it again, you guys made us believe..."

From my perspective, that statement is so telling. It both says that Kawhi didn't keep them updated, and that they didn't know the extent of the injury from Kawhi's POV, which is unforgivable the way I see team chemistry.

Look, we will know soon enough which of us is reading the tea leafs right. For the sake of the Spurs immediate future successes, I hope you're right. But for the sake of what I see as a malignancy getting worse, I hope the Spurs make the right move and trade him.

Again, I appreciate your position. No shade is coming y'alls way from me.

[offset formation]

U don't even know what arrangements he and his teammates have... Pop himself said Kawhi is more useful rehabbing than sitting on the bench

Is it possible that Pop is only saying those things so that the Spurs (PATFO in particular) aren't seen as diminishing his trade value? Or also conversely, leaving the option open to sitting down with him in the offseason fo hash things out while concurrently being upset with the way he behaved this season..."he'll be back when he and his group say he's ready..."

[spursistan]

I don't remember if you were the one who essentially said this a little while back. But I disagreed with that then and disagree with it now. This has done permanent damage to my perception of Leonard. I can get behind the idea that the dude is legit hurt. I'm not saying I believe it, but if Kawhi and the team move on and stay together while maintaining that's what this was, I'll defer to them. However a) I'll never feel comfortable with that contract given his injury and b) I'll never trust him to handle a trying situation well, at least in terms of transparency to the media, fans and teammates. He can't come out of this unscathed in that regard. He's always going to look like a shaky bet to give the franchise to. I'd completely understand PATFO trading him even if I knew for sure Kawhi was just hurt and has recovered by the time next season rolls around.

Well put .

I don't have a scientific the poll, but you could feel the tide has turned on him from a fan perspective (not talking about fanboys with transparent agenda like that YGWHI dude). I mentioned in another thread, most us are slowly coming to grips with the reality that he is not who we thought he was. It's going to be hard for him to come back from this, IMO.

As for the Supermax, it just doesn't make any sense to come with that offer right now. Think about it: the Spurs have refused to rule him out for the season 24 hours before the start of the playoffs; they are seemingly convinced that it's up to him to "feel ready to play", which he apparently can't or won't.

What follows from there should be to allow him few extra months to finally "feel ready to play" until their next meetup. If he or his camp agitate for the DPE before the former condition is met, then you start to listen on him very seriously because the jig is up right there.

PATFO gonna have to play their hand expertly in the next few months. I don't mind losing him—he's no Lebron or Duncan, and there is no surefire chance at Championships with him in light of the baggage that's been revealed throughout this episode— but I want the team to be decently set for the future (not as an immediate contender, but perennial 3-5th seed is not the worst of fates. You simply go from there).

[sananspursfan21]

Same as Dejuan Blair early years.

We’ll have to get a crane then to lift it over the donkey’s head to put it on him

[Keepin' it real]

He definitely could benefit from some PR help. So could most of the folks in the Spurs organization though. I think he was managed badly, and handled things badly himself from a publicity and team relations standpoint, but I am still not convinced this is all just a contract ploy. I think he wants to be playing, but in his head he can't...I believe it's just that simple.

We'll see if I'm wrong here soon I suppose.

Sounds like a mental defect to me.

[BillMc]

We’ll have to get a crane then to lift it over the donkey’s head to put it on him