Warren, Solomon Hill, James Johnson, Snell, Harkless, MKG, Ingles, Brogdonvaic are some SF names that recently gotten 10mil p/y plus contracts. Even veterans like Vince and Joe Johnston got 8mil and 9mil. To ask Kyle to take 5 mil playcut is awfully insulting. If he took TJ Tucker money 8mil, then that would be a huge discount. I dare say 10mil per year is right market price. Some of those guys I mentioned are getting 14mil.
It will be demoralizing as a fan if the spurs stand pat this draft/offseason. Even with Kawhi back, they can’t just roll it back with just a new redshirt rook and maybe Mulitinov, and call it an off-season. I hope they’re agressive with the pick and otherwise.
all of those guys except for Solomon Hill are better than Fathead
Last edited by TheGreatYacht; 04-13-2018 at 08:22 AM.
What team other then the Spurs would want Anderson?
Mitc Robinson..........
I shook his hand at a AAU tourney in New Orleans. Dude needs to put on some weight. He is like a taller Dejountay Murray, not skill wise, but build. Very, very thin. I also wonder about his basketball IQ. He didnt want to go to college because of doing the class work.
That worries me, and I wonder if it worries Pop.
Someone will take a chance on him but it won’t be the Spurs.
looks too skinny.
tell me he is at least beefier right now.
Market value is what the market offered for you, and then the Spurs get to choose to match, or improve that offer. That's what sets your value in that situation, and that's exactly what transpired. That's why there's a ton of overpaid or underpaid players (market had money or dried up). Conversely, players that never got into a FA situation have a difficult time assessing their real market value, and thus why some players like to go and test the waters, even if ultimately stick around.
I don't think Tim knew at all he was going to retire that year when he signed his deal. The fact that his knee got worse, I don't think entered the picture when he stamped that deal. Heck, if we're going to speculate, I would guess Tim would still be playing if his body didn't betray him, and has nothing to do with money.
What do you mean never supported? You just didn't even bother to look.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jul7.html
And of course his value was still rather high even when he aged. He's an exceptional, impactful player. The Philly offer does nothing but prove the point that he likely would've gotten more as a FA, if he actually cared about the bills more than the Spurs.
No it wasn't, and you know it wasn't. Top SGs like Wade, Allen were making twice as much. Not even going to mention Kobe.
Dude, has nothing to do with homeland. Heck, if he would be anything like the average Argie, he'll take the money and fake an injury for the rest of the season. That's exactly why DAF and I bring it up, he's anything but the average Argie, that's why he stands out like a sore thumb.
You're speculating that he asked for $5m or that he asked for the 2nd year, but neither of us know that. I could totally see Pop structuring the deal like that to keep 'culture' and 'corporate knowledge' around.
That could be an option, but I don't think (not sure, would have to look if the CBA says anything about it) he could be bought out for $0.
You will find out in the summer. He's not as hated as spurtroll who hates him. I have seen Knicksfan want him, but that's incidental to some other discussion, they really want to play Hardaway as a SG and get a wing with better size for SF. Kyle's in their price range.
I’m sure SA would love to keep him at a reasonable price range but holy mother of ducks do Spurs players play so awfully getting paid after the contract year. Splitter, Diaw, Mills all saw their production levels dip after getting rewarded with long-term contracts. Granted Pop really knows how to milk these guys’ contract years, it’s so de able to see players get complacent after getting a pay day. Expecting the same with Anderson next year, and more so especially if Kawhi returns. They’ll be paying for stats he put up this season for bench production the next few years.
Anderson is not a SF that ship has sailed. I like him at PF but man the kid is scarred to shoot the ball every time he gets a pass even when shot clock is low he passes the ball.
as I said you will find out in the summer.
Kyle is a valuable player imo. I do agree that his reluctance to shoot lowers is ceiling though and I think he's much better as a PF. It only takes one team to set the market though. If I'm the spurs 8M is as far as I'd go.
Trade the pick and anyone not named LMA or Kawhi for Kemba
This assumes a team can't or won't overpay for a guy. I don't disagree that with your idea of market value, btb. What I disagree with is you conflating that with a player not being money-oriented. Manu's agent specifically said his client was looking at that 2016 splurge and gunning for a huge deal. So someone giving him that deal doesn't all of the sudden make Manu not finance oriented.
He knew he might retire, which is why he put in the option year. Tim had to actively take the option, then retire. It wasn't a big mysterious thing, either. The Spurs immediately pursued Pau about a week later because they knew Tim was gone. Had Tim been feeling all right, he would have opted out just like Manu did.I don't think Tim knew at all he was going to retire that year when he signed his deal. The fact that his knee got worse, I don't think entered the picture when he stamped that deal. Heck, if we're going to speculate, I would guess Tim would still be playing if his body didn't betray him, and has nothing to do with money.
Manu wasn't a top SG at 36 coming off a horrible series. I know that's hard for you to accept, but comparing him to Heatles Wade is ridiculous, especially considering that Wade was still on a contract he signed in his prime as a superstar. Ray Allen was making just over $3 Million that year, so don't use him. Kobe was in Wade's position and was on a whole different level in terms of franchise importance and leverage for a deal.No it wasn't, and you know it wasn't. Top SGs like Wade, Allen were making twice as much. Not even going to mention Kobe.
It has everything to do with "the homeland" and the conceit of thinking that means you know him better than a typical SA person does. I'm glad that you guys like his character, and I like it too for the most part. Him taking this money isn't a big deal, though. It's something both sides knew going in.Dude, has nothing to do with homeland. Heck, if he would be anything like the average Argie, he'll take the money and fake an injury for the rest of the season. That's exactly why DAF and I bring it up, he's anything but the average Argie, that's why he stands out like a sore thumb.
I'm "speculating" he signed a two-year min deal for the same reason most vets near the ends of their careers do: To get extra money while being able to fit onto a capped-out roster. The whole point of a player option is to guarantee money in case of a down-turn. That's why guys like Joff and West did it (and I know Joff is young). What you don't see vets do is sign multi-year vet contracts unless their stock is uber-low, for all the reasons I've already explained. Manu taking that deal with the intention to play it out makes no sense for him or the team. Two separate one-year deals save the club money (almost half the total value of the contract would have been reimbursed by the league) and gives them flexibility, while allowing Manu to change his compensation if he feels that's warranted. That is how a guy who doesn't care about money and a team work together, not by doing what he did.You're speculating that he asked for $5m or that he asked for the 2nd year, but neither of us know that. I could totally see Pop structuring the deal like that to keep 'culture' and 'corporate knowledge' around.
Oh course he could. Kidd did that his final year with the Knicks.That could be an option, but I don't think (not sure, would have to look if the CBA says anything about it) he could be bought out for $0.
I missed this. That WaPo article does not suggest the Nuggets offered more money, which is what some fans point to when they say Manu left money on the table. If the Spurs did give Manu as much as Denver did, then Manu didn't take a discount until he reached 38 years of age. Not very altruistic at all.
Philly only offered him a one-year deal at that rate. The next year, they offered JJ Re almost twice that much. I don't think that demonstrates Manu's "high value" much at all.
Who the said Manu is bigger than money?Don't give me this "Manu's bigger than money" comment. Dude took $14 Million at 39 years of age.
Manu didn't sign a two-year deal with the plan to play both years. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but he wanted to play next year, he would have signed a one-year deal with an option. Doing that would have given him the flexibility to opt out and get more money while also giving the team a chance to renounce him for cap space (since they could give him a new min deal even if they went over the cap). It does nobody good for Manu to take the deal he did if he plan wasn't to retire. Obviously, he could change his mind, and perhaps this season has made him do that. But if he does come back, it will be for no more money than he will make not playing. It's not realistic to think he's going to do that, regardless of the conceit of pretending Argentinians are the only folks who can understand Manu after the dude has been with the team for so long.
He isn't as greedy as other players though, as we Spurs fans have come to realize this season, that's for sure.
What I'm saying is that, at this point of his career, Manu plays for pleasure. If he keeps enyoing playing basketball (like he seems to be doing right now) he won't stop playing just because he isn't going to get any extra money. Haven't you heard a single Manu's interview about the way that he looks at this retirement thing? he's not going to retire unless he's absolutely sure he wants to do it. He has the rest of his life to not play basketball anymore, instead if he retires, and then feels like he wanted to keep playing, there's no coming back.
How are non-rotation guys like Paul, Blossomgame and White (who should be a PG anyways) not uncertainty?The Spurs will know on Green and Rudy before the draft. They'll probably know on Kawhi too. They can definitely keep at least one of Anderson/Bertans if they want to. You throw in Blossomgame, White and Paul, and you really don't have that much uncertainty. Moreover, the team will have a lot of flexibility to replace any of those guys who leave in free agency, and they will have to do that rather than just drafting. Gay, Green and Anderson are rotation players. You aren't asking a rookie to fill those slots.
Rockets wings outside of Harden: Gordon, Ariza, Gerald Green, Mbah Moute, Joe Johnson, P.J Tucker. Significantly better than the Spurs wing rotation minus Kawhi.The Spurs wings are fine. , they're more than fine. Kawhi's loss has made everyone look worse. But if this rotation were healthy, it would be:
Murray, Ginobili
Leonard, Green
Anderson, Gay
Golden State is the only team that can argue it has a better rotation than that. I shudder to think how Houston's middle guys would be without Harden. Murray isn't going anywhere. Kawhi being traded is going to cause a cascade of changes that will result in a new starting SF among other things. White's ready to replace Manu. Gay's role as a go-to scorer will be replaced by an MLE vet, because it's too important to leave open. If Anderson leaves, you put Bertans there. They aren't both going to leave. Green's is the only role you might consider using a pick on, but even that would either be filled with a Kawhi trade or by a compe ion between guys like Paul and Blossomgame. It's not a critical spot.
I can't imagine what you'd be saying about the big rotation had LMA been the guy out all year and they run with Gasol and Joff getting big minutes.
Utah: Mitc , Ingles, Crowder, Exum.
Blazers: McCullum, Turner, Aminu, Harkless.
Wolves: Butler, Wiggins, Crowford, Bjelica.
Wizards: Beal, Porter, Morris, Satoransky, Oubre.
Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, Snell, Parker, Brogdon.
Sixers: Simmons, Red , Covington, Saric, Ilyasova, Bellinelli.
Celtics: Tatum, Brown, Morris, Hayward, Smart.
Cavs: Lebron, Smith, Korver, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, J.Green.
And I stopped looking because I got tired; but, yeah, the Spurs have the second best rotation of wings.
Last edited by DAF86; 04-13-2018 at 02:08 PM.
Insulting for a guy that can't shoot and averages 8 pts on 28 minutes? Ok, he can go feel not insulted somewhere else, tbh.
I guess it is up to if Kawhi stays cause then you would keep him cause he doesn’t need to shoot. But if Kawhi is traded then we need more offense and he has to go.
Roberson has only averaged 5-6 pts in almost 30 minutes per game and he makes over $10 mill a year. He's a reputable defensive player but the point is if you do other things that help a team win games games your value isn't solely determined by how much you score. Kyle's been better offensively than Roberson is not just bc he's scoring 2 pts more on good efficiency but bc he's a better passer and can make an occasional jumpshot when he has to take them and Kyle has been very good defensively this year.Insulting for a guy that can't shoot and averages 8 pts on 28 minutes? Ok, he can go feel not insulted somewhere else, tbh.
Its fine if you don't value him... spurfan tends to overrate players in other teams ironically and devalue their own... and frankly he might just very well be gone, but wings nowadays once they are established are rare to get for $5 mill a season... it's just the truth.
This next summer though is really unpredictable though. I won't really venture to say how much he will get, he might end up with a similar JSimms deal for all I know, but I do think 5 mill is too low.
Roberson is a defensive monster but even then that's a ty ass contract, tbh.
unbelievableWho the said Manu is bigger than money?
He isn't as greedy as other players, as we Spurs fans have come to realize this season, that's for sure.
What I'm saying is that, at this point of his career, Manu plays for pleasure. If he keeps enyoing playing basketball (like he seems to be doing right now) he won't stop playing just because he isn't going to get any extra money. Haven't you heard a single Manu's interview about the way that he looks at this retirement thing? he's not going to retire unless he's absolutely sure he wants to do it. He has the rest of his life to not play basketball anymore, instead if he retires, and then feels like he wanted to keep playing, there's no coming back.
How are non-rotation guys like Paul, Blossomgame and White (who should be a PG anyways) not uncertainty?
Rockets wings outside of Harden: Gordon, Ariza, Gerald Green, Mbah Moute, Joe Johnson, P.J Tucker. Significantly better than the Spurs wing rotation minus Kawhi.
Utah: Mitc , Ingles, Crowder, Exum.
Blazers: McCullum, Turner, Aminu, Harkless.
Wolves: Butler, Wiggins, Crowford, Bjelica.
Wizards: Beal, Porter, Morris, Satoransky, Oubre.
Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, Snell, Parker, Brogdon.
Sixers: Simmons, Red , Covington, Saric, Ilyasova, Bellinelli.
Celtics: Tatum, Brown, Morris, Hayward, Smart.
Cavs: Lebron, Smith, Korver, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, J.Green.
And I stopped looking because I got tired; but, yeah, the Spurs has the second best rotation of wings.
It doesn't matter what you think, if that is his market value. Once guys are out of their rook deals they expect to get paid. He plays heavy minutes for the team so you have to pay him. Roberson is better defensively but much worse offensively and that is your tradeoff. If you had to start Roberson this year in this team, that has no stars other than Lamarcus I daresay he'd look worse than Kyle has. It is what it is... once players are out of their rookie deals you have to pay them.
The uncertainty for me lies in this market this summer and he may get squeezed out financially, it's very unpredictable to me in that sense. RFA last season lingered for a long time b4 finally signing relative short team deals with the original teams bc the market had dried up and I don't expect this market to be any better. I also think the situation for everyone this year is pretty uncertain due to Kiwi's injury. Maybe he gets traded and you get players with promise like Tatum and Brown (hypothetically speaking, bc I doubt that trade happens). So, IMO he's ready to hit FA anyways.
Not necesarilly, do you think somebody else was going to pay Mills 10 millions per year or Pau 17 millions per year if the Spurs didn't? Sometimes teams just up.
I ran out of time for this discussion, tbh. Waiving the white flag. I pretty much disagree with the whole notion, but you're certainly en led to your opinion.
We'll see what happens this summer, tbh...
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