Inside the tension between Kawhi Leonard and the Spurs - Woj

[rjv]

Gradient and susceptibility weighted imaging (SWI) can.

and it can also differentiate between the presence of calcium from iron. CT is still the gold standard, as you mentioned.

[lmbebo]

and it can also differentiate between the presence of calcium from iron. CT is still the gold standard, as you mentioned.

[YGWHI]

His contempt is for anyone who doesn't blame the Spurs for all this crap.

You're wrong.

Also, I'm not the guy who said that the Spurs doctors didn't even think there was an injury or didn't believe him when he said he feels pain.

I wouldn't post it because I know that data coming from me would sound weird...Coming from you, a PATFO supporter, makes my point.

[DaBears]

Spurs' doctors thought that wasn't even an injury...And now, all we know there is one. A physical injury.

Team's doctors didn't believe him when he said his quad wasn't fine, didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...Do you think the player should trust in team-doctors who didn't even believe he was injured?

FACT - NY doctors have yet resolve his issue w/ KIWI, tell you even they dont know how to fix or put together the proper rehab.
FACT - SPURS doctors stated he has a degenerative issue, KIWI camp wanted 2nd opinion on that diagnosis ( potential $$ money loss, if it were true ) if you stick w/ that. hence the 2nd opinion.
OPINION - Hence get to a doctor outside of the network to give different opinion, which in turn would force a trade to a team willing to give max money, even if its not the SM.

Think logically here - when was the last time you needed to spend weeks getting a diagnosis on something and then you've been out months for a noninvasive injury. If KIWI is not healthy yet after months, that tells you something, and i would lean towards SPURS team diagnosis.

[YGWHI]

Think logically here - when was the last time you needed to spend weeks getting a diagnosis on something and then you've been out months for a noninvasive injury. If KIWI is not healthy yet after months, that tells you something, and i would lean towards SPURS team diagnosis.

When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

[DaBears]

When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

It hasn't been proven he got the wrong Diagnosis, your going off reports. It has never been confirmed he received the wrong diagnosis, his 2nd opinion has to do with not agreeing with what SPURS have told him. Because if it was true he'd lose out on a lot of money..

** I do agree with you that wrong diagnosis happen alot among the average person. I am fairly confident SPURS ran multiple tests and ideas before settling on the 1 they decided to diagnosis Kiwi with.
It was not like they did a 5 sec session and then gave it a name.

[MoSpur02]

It hasn't been proven he got the wrong Diagnosis, your going off reports. It has never been confirmed he received the wrong diagnosis, his 2nd opinion has to do with not agreeing with what SPURS have told him. Because if it was true he'd lose out on a lot of money..

** I do agree with you that wrong diagnosis happen alot among the average person. I am fairly confident SPURS ran multiple tests and ideas before settling on the 1 they decided to diagnosis Kiwi with.
It was not like they did a 5 sec session and then gave it a name.

Unfortunately you are probably wasting your time because Kawhi and his group are the victims here.

[DPG21920]

When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

You mean like 8 months long? Because it appears Kawhi’s team has been handling the course of treatment for 8 months now.

[DaBears]

You mean like 8 months long? Because it appears Kawhi’s team has been handling the course of treatment for 8 months now.

[DaBears]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

[DaBears]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

From everything we've ever heard of Kiwi as a person he is conservative w/ his money why would he stay in NY spending money on temp home for the weeks of rehab when you wouldn't need to.

[daslicer]

Unfortunately you are probably wasting your time because Kawhi and his group are the victims here.

[SpursforSix]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

I suppose that he might stay in New York so the doctor can monitor him frequently while he's doing the rehab.

[DaBears]

I suppose that he might stay in New York so the doctor can monitor him frequently while he's doing the rehab.

I thought that the reason why we invented Twitter & Snapchat & Facebook live and smartphones w/ camera's webex sessions & Apple Facetime. Allowing us to be reach others, so that we can be in different locals. this injury is not a day to day type injury, and checkup every few weeks i am thinking would work.. But what do i know, or do not know, about it..

Kiwi and his staff could just be completely in the dark as you or I.

[toki9]

Thinking about this, Kawh's camp's behavior makes sense if you assume that they believed that the Spurs didn't want to give out the Supermax. Per the Spurs doctors, Kawhi has a degenerative disease--which would mean a 5 year supermax is not a good choice. So if you're Kawhi's agent/uncle, your immediate reaction to that diagnosis is that the Spurs are looking for ways to not hand out the Supermax. So you look for a second opinion. But the second opinion doesn't work out, so you look for a third opinion. In the meantime, you tell the Spurs that it's not a degenerative condition and only needs a right kind of rehab--and fight over who has the right diagnosis while not saying anything that may come to haunt you later (such as, yeah, your doctors were right about the diagnosis). In other words, Kawhi's people do not want to confirm that it is a degenerative disease and that's probably the most logical reason as to why they haven't said anything. And this is also why his people can tell Kawhi that the Spurs don't care about you, but just the franchise, that they're trying to lowball you on the contract by saying you have a degenerative condition.

[toki9]

From everything we've ever heard of Kiwi as a person he is conservative w/ his money why would he stay in NY spending money on temp home for the weeks of rehab when you wouldn't need to.

He's probably living with his uncle, who is based out of New Jersey.

[TD 21]

Thinking about this, Kawh's camp's behavior makes sense if you assume that they believed that the Spurs didn't want to give out the Supermax. Per the Spurs doctors, Kawhi has a degenerative disease--which would mean a 5 year supermax is not a good choice. So if you're Kawhi's agent/uncle, your immediate reaction to that diagnosis is that the Spurs are looking for ways to not hand out the Supermax. So you look for a second opinion. But the second opinion doesn't work out, so you look for a third opinion. In the meantime, you tell the Spurs that it's not a degenerative condition and only needs a right kind of rehab--and fight over who has the right diagnosis while not saying anything that may come to haunt you later (such as, yeah, your doctors were right about the diagnosis). In other words, Kawhi's people do not want to confirm that it is a degenerative disease and that's probably the most logical reason as to why they haven't said anything. And this is also why his people can tell Kawhi that the Spurs don't care about you, but just the franchise, that they're trying to lowball you on the contract by saying you have a degenerative condition.

Duncan had a degenerative disease, yet still managed to have a long, highly successful career. Obviously, that doesn't mean Leonard necessarily will, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be another Stoudemire, Roy, Granger, etc., either. Attempting to ascertain which category he'll fall into will be key.

[toki9]

Duncan had a degenerative disease, yet still managed to have a long, highly successful career. Obviously, that doesn't mean Leonard necessarily will, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be another Stoudemire, Roy, Granger, etc., either. Attempting to ascertain which category he'll fall into will be key.

But if you're his agent thinking about the upcoming contract, your first thought would be how this diagnosis affects the contract negotiation. You're not worried about long term prognosis as much as what's going to happen on the next contract--particularly if the agent himself is having business issues.

[TD 21]

But if you're his agent thinking about the upcoming contract, your first thought would be how this diagnosis affects the contract negotiation. You're not worried about long term prognosis as much as what's going to happen on the next contract--particularly if the agent himself is having business issues.

The part I highlighted was from the Spurs perspective.

[ducks]

Spur fans are the victims here not Leonard or the front office

[toki9]

The part I highlighted was from the Spurs perspective.

Sorry, I should have been more precise with my writing. I was speculating from Kawhi's camp perspective--so if the Spurs doctors are saying that it's degenerative disease, the agent would believe that it would make the Spurs hesitant about the 5-year deal. So the agent believes the diagnosis would give Spurs a basis to lowball so he seeks out a second opinion, and then a third opinion. But they can't come up with anything definitive that says the Spurs diagnosis is wrong, so they're keeping everything quiet. I think it was in a podcast, but Ramona Shelburne mentioned that she was getting a lot of these medical explanation from Kawhi's agent, Frankel, and she asked him if Kawhi's doctor could comment to her directly--and he would not let that happen.

Anyways, this is all pure speculation, so who knows.

[BackHome]

Always follow the money

[duncan2k5]

You’re assuming this wasn’t a medical holdout. He was fine in August, well enough to travel to China for his camp. His sister verified that. Yet, suddenly, in September when it’s time for camp, his quad is bad. Nothing shows up on any scan, but he can’t play.

So he was fake limping? Great actor then...

[duncan2k5]

People (not just you YGWHI) keep saying the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed the injury. But could it be, since the two sides disagree with whether it's a degenerative disease or not, that Kawhi´s camp simply refuses to believe that at 27-ish he has a condition that could completely derail his career and possibly (worst case scenario) end it before it fully flourishes? I mean they could be running with this medical teams's opinion because it goes against the degenerative diagnosis and to something that they feel could be cured with intense rehab and rest.

Not sure if someone else has said this because it´s hard keeping up with all the posts. But I really do wonder if Kawhi's camp is lashing out irrationally at the Spurs because they don´t wantto face the possibility of him having a very very serious condition.

It can't be that... Because the doctors Kawhi is seeing are better than the sports doctors of a basketball team... And the Spurs doctors are in agreement with the other ones

[duncan2k5]

True. Frankly I am tired, burned out, of this saga. It took all year, was immensely draining on everyone and got guys involved in dramas getting asked about him. I don’t think he gets traded but at this point I don’t care.

For me the supermax isn’t even about the money. I know it’s a huge amount of meney and will affect future roster building, but it’s not even about that. He didn’t play almost an entire season. I am not assured in any way this isn’t happening again. I don’t know how you can build around that. His career might be, maybe not over, but derailed. Hopefully not, but I am not reassured by anything that has gone on or said about that injury up to this point.

I think other GMs will have the same concerns and so you aren't getting a package for an MVP player. It’s tough.

Every single GM in the league would trade for Kawhi so fast... Including the warriors... And laugh at us while doing it... Good thing we aren't stupid and won't trade him