Woj: Spurs are declining to match Kyle Anderson’s four-year, $37M offer sheet

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

I agree with that, but I think it applies to any team with a great system and good coaching..the Spurs have a higher volume due to their extended period of success as an organization..

Now granted, there are only like 4-5 teams this applies to every few seasons, but still..

The difference with other good teams is that role players aren't given as many chances to shine as the Spurs do with their role players. Some because they don't play their role players as much, others because they play them too much (lol Ariza getting 40 mpg), and almost all of them because they don't give them much room to do anything. Spurs circa 2012/2015 was paradise for role players. They were put exactly in the perfect place to produce at the top of their abilities.

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by TD 21

At coaching and system. By far the biggest reason role players often looked better with the Spurs than elsewhere, was because of the big 3. An all-time core, that for as talented as they were, were even better than the sum of their parts because of their IQ, unselfishness and chemistry.

That too. But you can't disregard the coaches job either. From creating a culture of selfinshness to installing a system that has been succesful for two straight decades now. The Spurs have been an elite defensive team for about 20 years now. Even last season's ty team, playing Mills, Forbes, Gay, Tony and Gasol major minutes was a top 2 defensive team in the league. That's on coaching.

**TD 21** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

That too. But you can't disregard the coaches job either. From creating a culture of selfinshness to installing a system that has been succesful for two straight decades now. The Spurs have been an elite defensive team for about 20 years now. Even last season's ty team, playing Mills, Forbes, Gay, Tony and Gasol major minutes was a top 2 defensive team in the league. That's on coaching.

Robinson and Duncan created it and Parker and Ginobili followed suit.

The "system" was and is tailored to whoever the best offensive player(s) is at a given time.

Thanks mostly to 2 all-time defensive anchors and to a lesser extent an all-time defensive wing, as well as other good defensive personnel in prominent roles.

They fell to 4th at the end and were anchored by 2 of the best rim protectors in the league and 3 of the best perimeter defenders.

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by TD 21

Robinson and Duncan created it and Parker and Ginobili followed suit.

The "system" was and is tailored to whoever the best offensive player(s) is at a given time.

Thanks mostly to 2 all-time defensive anchors and to a lesser extent an all-time defensive wing, as well as other good defensive personnel in prominent roles.

They fell to 4th at the end and were anchored by 2 of the best rim protectors in the league and 3 of the best perimeter defenders.

Are you referring to last season's team?

Who were the 2 defensive rim protectors? Aldridge and Gasol?

And 3 of the best perimeter player? Murray, Green and Anderson?

Chicken and egg argument. Are they really that good defensively or does the system and coaching allows them to have such great defensive numbers? To me it's clear is the latter. Who thought of Aldridge as one of the best rim protectors before coming to the Spurs? Is Murray an all defensive team anywhere else? Would have Kawhi won b2b DPoYs on any other team?

You obviously need the elements, but the individual parts are nothing without a system getting the best of them.

**~~dabom~~** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

Are you referring to last season's team?

Who were the 2 defensive rim protectors? Aldridge and Gasol?

And 3 of the best perimeter player? Murray, Green and Anderson?

Chicken and egg argument. Are they really that good defensively or does the system and coaching allows them to have such great defensive numbers? To me it's clear is the latter. Who thought of Aldridge as one of the best rim protectors before coming to the Spurs? Is Murray an all defensive team anywhere else? Would have Kawhi won b2b DPoYs on any other team?

You obviously need the elements, but the individual parts are nothing without a system getting the best of them.

Kawhi is an amazing defensive player. Yeah he gets too back to back,

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by dabom

Kawhi is an amazing defensive player. Yeah he gets too back to back,

I doubt it. Kawhi got back to back because the Spurs were at the top of the defensive metrics both years. On a team that is middle of the pack (or at least not top 3), Kawhi doesn't get it. No matter how good he is individually on defense.

Furthermore, he wasn't the guy with the best defensive metrics on the Spurs in either year that he won. I remember thinking that back in 2015, Duncan should have got DPoY over him. Numbers backed that up.

**~~dabom~~** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

I doubt it. Kawhi got back to back because the Spurs were at the top of the defensive metrics both years. On a team that is middle of the pack (or at least not top 3), Kawhi doesn't get it. No matter how good he is individually on defense.

Furthermore, he wasn't the guy with the best defensive metrics on the Spurs in either year that he won. I remember thinking that back in 2015, Duncan should have got DPoY over him. Numbers backed that up.

Same metrics makes you think dedman or fathead is a DPOY. Stop with the nonsense.

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by dabom

Same metrics makes you think dedman or fathead is a DPOY. Stop with the nonsense.

No, I said Duncan.

**TD 21** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

Are you referring to last season's team?

Who were the 2 defensive rim protectors? Aldridge and Gasol?

And 3 of the best perimeter player? Murray, Green and Anderson?

Chicken and egg argument. Are they really that good defensively or does the system and coaching allows them to have such great defensive numbers? To me it's clear is the latter. Who thought of Aldridge as one of the best rim protectors before coming to the Spurs? Is Murray an all defensive team anywhere else? Would have Kawhi won b2b DPoYs on any other team?

You obviously need the elements, but the individual parts are nothing without a system getting the best of them.

Aldridge and Gasol consistently rank among the best rim protectors in the league (lowest field goal % allowed within 3 feet of the rim). They often get overlooked because the former doesn't block a lot of shots and the latter is a poor overall defender.

The only one who didn't excel or at least didn't have the perceived potential to excel defensively prior to being a Spur, was Anderson. Of course their reputation was buoyed by being a Spur; who isn't? Especially post '14, when the media lost their mind and decided Pop was a magician because that team won a championship without a player playing at a superstar level.

Of course you need a coherent system, but the Spurs haven't re-invented the wheel defensively. They've just been fortunate to have a lot of tall, long armed, high IQ/effort types, in prominent roles.

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by TD 21

Aldridge and Gasol consistently rank among the best rim protectors in the league (lowest field goal % allowed within 3 feet of the rim). They often get overlooked because the former doesn't block a lot of shots and the latter is a poor overall defender.

The only one who didn't excel or at least didn't have the perceived potential to excel defensively prior to being a Spur, was Anderson. Of course their reputation was buoyed by being a Spur; who isn't? Especially post '14, when the media lost their mind and decided Pop was a magician because that team won a championship without a player playing at a superstar level.

Of course you need a coherent system, but the Spurs haven't re-invented the wheel defensively. They've just been fortunate to have a lot of tall, long armed, high IQ/effort types, in prominent roles.

I doubt "fotunate" is the word that applies there.

Look, I'm far from a PATFO fluffer. raybies can attest to that. But I think you are underrating their job big time on this matter.

**TD 21** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

I doubt "fotunate" is the word that applies there.

How were they not fortunate to win 2 lotteries with all-time prospects? Leonard was going to be great defender wherever he went. Aldridge came here because he considered it home and the chance to contend for championships, based on a core that was mostly good fortune.

That's not a knock on the Spurs, by the way. Any franchise that has anything close to this level of success in professional sports, is going to owe a lot of it to good fortune. Of course, it goes beyond that and there's numerous people who deserve varying degrees of credit too.

**DAF86** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by TD 21

How were they not fortunate to win 2 lotteries with all-time prospects? Leonard was going to be great defender wherever he went. Aldridge came here because he considered it home and the chance to contend for championships, based on a core that was mostly good fortune.

That's not a knock on the Spurs, by the way. Any franchise that has anything close to this level of success in professional sports, is going to owe a lot of it to good fortune. Of course, it goes beyond that and there's numerous people who deserve varying degrees of credit too.

There was no luck at all on the getting of Kawhi Leonard, tbh.

There was also no luck at all on turning Danny Green from a G-league player into an elite role player and there's no luck at all on the type of players they go after.

Just as there's no luck at all on the fact that every player is scared as of committing a defensive mistake or coming out as lazy on that side of the ball.

**TD 21** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by DAF86

There was no luck at all on the getting of Kawhi Leonard, tbh.

There was also no luck at all on turning Danny Green from a G-league player into an elite role player and there's no luck at all on the type of players they go after.

Just as there's no luck at all on the fact that every player is scared as of committing a defensive mistake or coming out as lazy on that side of the ball.

We're talking strictly defense though. Leonard was going to be a great defender anywhere and Green a very good one.

Right and that credibility Pop has, was built on the backs of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Robinson, who made him the most successful and revered coach of his generation.

All coaches would love to do a lot of the things Pop does, but know they couldn't get away with it because they don't have the job security he does. They have to walk a fine line with their players, particularly their best ones.

**bic50** · 07-09-2018

I have a feeling Kyle will do well in Memphis

**SAGirl** · 07-09-2018

Originally Posted by bic50

I have a feeling Kyle will do well in Memphis

I have a good feeling about it bc he was thrown on the deep end last season in a really offensively challenged team. He was a deep bench player and all of a sudden started 73 or so games.

Anyways, "analytics" models project Memphis got better adding him.

**SAGirl** · 07-09-2018

It would never show up anywhere, but these are things roleplayers do to make others around them better than you cannot quantify.

Unquantifiable things like that only show up when you look at things like plus/minus.

For 2 years in a row, including last season when he was thrown in the fire the Spurs were better with him on the floor than without him.