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so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.
-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.
-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused at ude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.
-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.
-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.
-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.
-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.
-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).
-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.
-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.
(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)
-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.
-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.
-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.
-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?
-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.
-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.
-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.
-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.
-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.
-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.
-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.
so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.
Obviously we lost this deal.hopefully derozan gets his 3 point% up and potel can atleast be our future backup big
What can you do? The trade is done, we can complain all we want but in the end the roster is what it is.
Hated him post-contract, but god damn, in a league where PJ Tucker and Bojan Bogdanovic net you first round picks.... you use him as filler in a trade?!?!
Just when you thought RC couldn't get any dumber.
Seems like the only ones who think the Spurs lost this trade are found on this board....oh yeah, and Skip Bayless. Congrats you guys!
I think any attempts at looking positively at this deal in vacuum is going to degenerate into a "sugarcoating" exercise.. This is a paltry return and there is no way to spin it.
The lack of upside in the pieces they got (players, picks) is the most disappointing part. It was a trade driven by two motives (a) to stay relevant in Pop's last 2 years in (b) and to move on from HSNBN 2.0..
Fans here are brighter than talking heads who only pay attention to the Spurs when Pop s on the orange fuhrer, illegal aliens who follow the Spurs on Facebook, and the reddit lgbtq community.
Still could've traded with the Clippers even after the draft, smh.
Considering what this team was last season, this was technically an upgrade and now have a better chance to make it past the first round.
I saw demar at six flags a few weeks ago and I was wearing my spurs hat. Should've asked him to sign it
Kawhi really depleted his value. He tried to torpedo even this underwhelming return for him by emphatically letting it be known he didn't want to be there.
It was indeed good while it lasted for the Kiwi led Spurs but it ended ugly and drawn out.
At least I am glad that's over and we can move on, like Pop said. It will hurt if he's in the finals next year sure... I still have concerns about his health and durability though.
What the am I reading? Do you guys really think teams are going to gamble on Kawhi? There are already rumors that he's considering sitting the entire 2018 season. This isn't mid-2016, and other teams have eyes and ears. They know Kawhi intentionally took himself out of last season.
This is way, way more than I would have expected us to get given the cir stances. You guys were expecting the moon when we have a headcase of a player who has said he only wants to play for the Lakers. If you were a GM not named Pelinka, would you buy Kawhi right now?
Raptors fans are really upset by this trade. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative value we're giving.
More I think about it, the more disappointed I am. No quality 1st round pick(s) or young prospects. I feel like Jakob was a throw in. Not fond of him.
Obviously this deal does not make the Spurs contenders. It wasn't an ideal trade at all but like other said Kawhi's uncle destroyed Kawhi's value. Spurs with this trade are capable of being a 50 win team. I will just enjoy the next few years being a 50 win team. Realistically it will be a long time before the Spurs are ever a contender again.
in what universe was green one of their best 3 point shooters? 2014?
1. Spurs did get "hosed" based on what Spurs fans wanted in return.
2. Based on reality, what they got in this deal is better than anything else other teams put on the table. The Lakers didn't want to give up Kyle freakin' Kuzma. The Sixers didn't wanted to give up Fultz or Saric. Boston didn't want to give up anyone.
3. I wanted three young players (or one star) and three or four first round picks. The Spurs got a borderline star, a protected first round pick and player whose value is probably equal to a late lottery pick. So definitely underwhelming but not a total hosing, IMO. I'd rather get DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick than trash like Ingram, Deng and a pick or Covington, trash and a pick.
4. The timing of this trade has me su ious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...
It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.
I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.
Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.
In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.
just like george
Also, they are independent from the trade, but what team that has won as much as the Spurs and still has a playoff team has more young talent?
No blue chippers (although Poeltl was a top 10 pick), but Murray, White, Lonnie & Poeltl? That is not a bad young core for a team that has this much winning.
For what? Tobias Harris and a pair of old LA Gears? Give me a break.
Agreed Spurs were put in a ed up situation with Kawhi being re ed along with Uncle Dennis. They literally tried to strong arm the Spurs into sending Kawhi to the Lakers. I'm just proud of the Spurs for not caving in and sending Kawhi to the Lakers. Granted this tool will probably go there next summer.
If nephew is broken, he'll flunk his physical and be right back with the Spurs.
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