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Kobyz's recent takes are up there as some of the worst I've ever read. The sad thing is that I think he's completely serious.
Start Bryn and Patty?
Great. We can get 20 points out of them combined while giving up 60!
Kobyz's recent takes are up there as some of the worst I've ever read. The sad thing is that I think he's completely serious.
just wait and see, like always i once again will be proven right...
Your thinking is far too two dimensional. Why does it matter who does what?"This season isn't for Lonnie."
Lonnie is far too raw to spend more minutes in The Show this season than a much more NBA-ready White spent last season. Lonnie needs to beast in the G League this year.
As for DJ: draining selected threes in an empty gym doesn't show me anything, and putting on rebounding clinics isn't what we need from a PG. Gravy without the chicken fry.
DJ defensive rebound % 22.4 - 3G% 27%
LMA defensive rebound % 17.3 - 3G% 29%
PG defensive rebound % 30.2 - 3G% 36%
The secret to Pop's success is thinking outside of the box. The Spurs will never be able to afford a payroll like GS, so they have to work with what they have. You need people to score. You need rebounding. You need floor spacing.
Why does it matter who does what?
I'll let you in on a little secret. With that DRB%, DJ doesn't need an outlet pass very often. I think the Spurs are going to run this year, maybe more than any time since the 90s.
In a vacuum, this makes sense. In reality, it doesn't.
Patty and Bryn are simply too small and their defensive skills to exploitable to have on the court at the same time.
Patty, who fights like crazy and tries his ass off routinely became a liability in switches on bigs last year. Bryn got completely lost. Team defense can mask that most of the time, when only one is on the floor. You can't do it with both.
Now maybe if Pop ever wants to play run and gun and forgo his defensive mentality in a random game, maybe it will happen. But as a strategy, game to game, it's utter lunacy.
portland last year with liliard and macolem two bad defenders were top 5 defensive team...
3 reasons...
1. Those players are still tall enough not to become switch disasters. Plus they are both as good as at least Patty. Bryn at times got completely lost last year. I expect improvement this year from him but you can't have those two on the floor at the same time. Any coach worth his salt will gameplan us to death, especially if they know that is our "starting lineup."
2. Nurkic, Swanigan, Harkless, Leonard, Turner are all solid defensive players, which helps make up for their shortcomings
3. That's also because they run an up tempo offense and kind of force teams to play their way. If we do that, we are committing fraud by misusing LA.
all those names are not solid individual defenders, maybe only harkless...
you over thinking it, make them playing hard and press the other backcourt in their limited time together should be positive overall...
Warriors series really highlighted Forbes' liability on D. Playing hard isn't enough when you're an undersized 2 in a switchable league with taller SG/SFs. Pop values D too much. I just don't see Patty and Forbes together a lot, but separately sure, when Forbes is on its awesome, but I've seen, and I'm sure you have as well, Pop pull hot shooters b/c of their liability on D.
it's also a shooting league more so and you don't have 5 allstar to work with, something had to give, but i'm not with you in the idea of that combination couldn't work to start games...
Last season, Popovich thought Pau-Aldridge could co-exist with Leonard-Green-Parker, still thinking Tony would run the team after recovering from injury, being Mills plan B. Mid-season, coaches realized Murray had to take over. Pop confirmed on the DeRozan trade presser that Murray has the keys of the team for this season. I think Popovich will adapt team structure around DJ, giving him a lighter starting lineup, speeding up the pace. So I reckon we won't be starting two bigs because of that. (Not saying we will run like D'Antoni's Suns, just some more transition game ala Parker's last good years.
I also believe Gay will keep coming off the bench to lead the second unit as he did very well. With DDR, no more scoring is needed in the SL. Of course, Rudy will play the crunch. Same with Mills, seen as a PG by the coaches, not for his playmaking abilities but because of the corporate knowledge and his locker room leadership.
So we have a core of Aldridge-DeRozan-Murray starting, with Gasol/Poetl-Gay-Mills-Manu? as the second unit core. I understand LA, DDR, DJM will have a lot of ball on their hands so off-the-ball players and 3pt shooting are needed around them so I'd say at least one of Belinelli/Bertans could start. With Manu on the roster, I could see White as a starter on D Green minutes, without Manu I see White being Mills colleague on the bench backcourt. Cunningham's role is intriguing to me, as he could start at the PF or hardly get into the rotation. Forbes minutes are another big question to be answered, I don't like him but PATFO trusts him.
I'm afraid Lonnie Walker won't see a lot of NBA hardwood this season and I'm ok with that. After watching him in summer leagues, the boy needs to learn the game playing it. Huge potential to be developed on the court, not warming the bench.
That being said, forget about itbecause I go with (aprox min avg ) :
Murray (28') - Mills (20')
DeRozan (31') - White (17') - Forbes (8') - Looney
Belinelli (20') - Bertans (20') - Ginobili (17')
Aldridge (32') - Gay (24') - Cunningham (13')
Poetl (14') - Gasol (20')
Aldridge likes getting his minutes because he told Pop he can't get into a flow in more limited minutes. That's great that your best guy is asking for those minutes though. And he gives you everything he has every minute he's in. Perhaps DDR can be talked into fewer minutes at the 2 and more at the 3 though to give White more run. I'm more and more convinced he'll be one of our best players.Last season, Popovich thought Pau-Aldridge could co-exist with Leonard-Green-Parker, still thinking Tony would run the team after recovering from injury, being Mills plan B. Mid-season, coaches realized Murray had to take over. Pop confirmed on the DeRozan trade presser that Murray has the keys of the team for this season. I think Popovich will adapt team structure around DJ, giving him a lighter starting lineup, speeding up the pace. So I reckon we won't be starting two bigs because of that. (Not saying we will run like D'Antoni's Suns, just some more transition game ala Parker's last good years.
I also believe Gay will keep coming off the bench to lead the second unit as he did very well. With DDR, no more scoring is needed in the SL. Of course, Rudy will play the crunch. Same with Mills, seen as a PG by the coaches, not for his playmaking abilities but because of the corporate knowledge and his locker room leadership.
So we have a core of Aldridge-DeRozan-Murray starting, with Gasol/Poetl-Gay-Mills-Manu? as the second unit core. I understand LA, DDR, DJM will have a lot of ball on their hands so off-the-ball players and 3pt shooting are needed around them so I'd say at least one of Belinelli/Bertans could start. With Manu on the roster, I could see White as a starter on D Green minutes, without Manu I see White being Mills colleague on the bench backcourt. Cunningham's role is intriguing to me, as he could start at the PF or hardly get into the rotation. Forbes minutes are another big question to be answered, I don't like him but PATFO trusts him.
I'm afraid Lonnie Walker won't see a lot of NBA hardwood this season and I'm ok with that. After watching him in summer leagues, the boy needs to learn the game playing it. Huge potential to be developed on the court, not warming the bench.
That being said, forget about it
Murray (28') - Mills (20')
DeRozan (31') - White (17') - Forbes (8') - Looney
Belinelli (20') - Bertans (20') - Ginobili (17')
Aldridge (32') - Gay (24') - Cunningham (13')
Poetl (14') - Gasol (20')
I think by the end of the season, our most lethal starting 5 will be: Murray, White, Derozan, Aldridge, Poetl.
That is length, athleticism, and stifling D.
On offense, it's far better than we had last year.
With a really good 2nd team of:
Mills, Ginobili/Belinelli, Bertans/Gay, Gay/Bertans, Pau. Interchange in some youth with Cunningham, Walker Blossingame, and Forbes and that provides some shotmaking and hustle for spots to spell the older vets.
I can see this team winning 55-60 games if they are able to gel and not let egos get in the way.
Last edited by offset formation; 07-27-2018 at 06:53 PM.
I would rather have a PG who can do PG things first (chicken fry). After that, rebounding is great (gravy). I would much rather have a PG who had the handles, court vision and passing skills to run a fast break really well whether he gets outlet passes or not. Moreover, could a PG's high DRB% be compensating for the fact that the guys who should be pulling down boards aren't as effective as they should be? DJ does some nice things for the team, and I love how he talks the talk. But I am not yet sold on him as a PG. I hope he improves in all of those traditional PG skills and also continues to rebound effectively this season. I also hope he gets some help on the boards this season from...?
I think Blossomgame may be one of the two 2 way players. Metu may play a year with the Austin Spurs before possibility getting an cheap multi-year deal with the Spurs, they clearly like him given that they have been scouting him for two years.
Assuming Manu returns, that is 14. Paul makes 15 but isn't a guarantee to be on the roster at the start of the season.
He shot worse from 3 than one would expect given that he's been pretty good in other stops. I think they probably keep him and see if his shot improves to the mean, iirc, defensively he was good last year and is long enough to probably defend 3s but he might get cut later on.
An open roster spot around March would allow the Spurs to pursue buyout options with players like DeMarre Carrol and Jared Dudley possibly being available.
No Mills starting please, not even 2nd PG. That was a terrible experiment. He turned over a lot passing on a double team, the wing defender seemed to telegraph the turnaround pass every time. He’s buried among big men he couldn’t see the help defense lurking for the cross court pass. Watch it. I cringed every time it happened. Patty is a streaky scorer coming off the bench at best, going through the screen and hitting the 3. But not to pass it because he would lose it.
I like BP3 a lot more than Forbes (although I don't really like either of them much at all on the court) and wouldn't be against giving him another opportunity in a year or so. Can he be put on two way contract or at least signed to a G League contract?
I still think we are set at the 3 with Gay/Cunningham or Manu/DDR for small ball lineups. If Forbes kills it before the ASG can we flip him for a 2nd round pick? What about the two first round picks we have? Is it enough worth trying to trade both of them for a higher pick? Probably not, I'd think.
How about Allen Crabbe? The Nets really want to find a way to get rid of his salary for next year.
Yeah, I've come around on this. I initially thought (not wanted) Cunningham would start at SF, then DeRozan (with Mills at SG).
Even when the roster has been unbalanced, Pop has always preferred starting big and the reality is, there is no other second wing that's starter material (White is probably the closest, but he's unproven and unlikely to be in the rotation).
I suspect the starters are limited to the first 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters as a unit. After that, expect constant mixing and matching to infuse some much needed shooting.
Poeltl/Cunningham for 4th big will probably be matchup dependant and with the way the game is being played now, that plays into the latter's hands. It'd be difficult to play 3 centers, including a non shooting one, for any team, let alone one as starved for shooting as this one is.
An interesting small line up is
Lamarcus
Gay
Bertans
White
Derozan
Solves all offensive problems....balanced scoring too.....
Come to think of it, our best classical court general archetypes are Manu and White
If White cannot be in the rotation this season, Pop is not a genius Coach.....
I am posting
Or
Lamarcus
Gay
Derozan
Bellineli
Murray
Hmmmm.......??
Your thoughts guys?
By the way I have a new favorite player.....
Tell you soon hihihihihih
Yeah, I've come around on this. I initially thought (not wanted) Cunningham would start at SF
Even when the roster has been unbalanced, Pop has always preferred starting big and the reality is, there is no other second wing that's starter material (White is probably the closest, but he's unproven and unlikely to be in the rotation).
I suspect the starters are limited to the first 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters as a unit. After that, expect constant mixing and matching to infuse some much needed shooting.
Poeltl/Cunningham for 4th big will probably be matchup dependant and with the way the game is being played now, that plays into the latter's hands. It'd be difficult to play 3 centers, including a non shooting one, for any team, let alone one as starved for shooting as this one is.
-The Murray, DDR, Gay, LMA, Gasol unit fits Pop's coaching style of starting two bigs and also gives the Spurs the best chance of playing good defense, in leu of not having a defensive wing. Gay is a meh man to man defender (he reaches in too much instead of making more effort to move laterally) though he is super long, athletic, and mobile.
-DeRozen is a bad defender, though there is hope that he can improve to below average or even slightly below average in. Murray, DDR, and Gay together make for a long, quick, and athletic perimiter pairing with Aldridge and Gasol behind are both good rim protectors.
-Offensively; that unit might be okay, Gay is a better shooter than he showed last season from 3. He's an 38% career 3pt shooter from the corners, which is where I expect him to operate when DeRozen has the ball. Murray seems to be actively working on his shot, so there is some hope that he'll be a near league average 3pt shooter on a decent amount of attempts. With DeRozen is an improved playmaker and should be able to get Gasol some open looks in pick and pop situations while he and Aldridge, operate in the midrange or post.
-There is definitely going to mix and matching and the bench has plenty of shooting, even if several of them are smallish guards. I expect Bertans to play a fairly significant role, getting minutes at the 4-next to Aldridge with DDR, with two of the three of Mills, Manu, and Murray playing alongside them in some lineups.
-I don't expect Cunningham to play much however, I see him as more of a deep bench guy who can step and play some minutes at the 3 and 4.
-Poeltl could be a very good fit and I expect him to play consistently, if not very many minutes. In theory, he's the 3rd center with Aldridge likely sliding over to the 5 after the first 6 minutes of each half. I expect about 10 minutes per game of all-bench units with Mills, Beli, Manu, Bertans and Poeltl.
-I think that bench lineup could be especially good offensively; Manu running pick and roll with an athletic big who can roll hard and finishes strong at the rim, and three shooters spacing the floor.
-Eventually, Spurs will use the final spot to address the SF situation-which might become an issue, especially against teams with elite wings. The buyout market is the most obvious route with DeMarre Carroll and Jared Dudley both potentially being available in March (both are expiring deals and Brooklyn is set to have their own pick for the first time in years). I'd certainly take Carrol, he's a good 3pt shooter (on a high volume too) and ranked 13th among 3's in DRPM. Spurs could shift Gay back to the bench and be better equipt to defend on the better teams.
Stay tuned
Good interesting post.Last season, Popovich thought Pau-Aldridge could co-exist with Leonard-Green-Parker, still thinking Tony would run the team after recovering from injury, being Mills plan B. Mid-season, coaches realized Murray had to take over. Pop confirmed on the DeRozan trade presser that Murray has the keys of the team for this season. I think Popovich will adapt team structure around DJ, giving him a lighter starting lineup, speeding up the pace. So I reckon we won't be starting two bigs because of that. (Not saying we will run like D'Antoni's Suns, just some more transition game ala Parker's last good years.
I also believe Gay will keep coming off the bench to lead the second unit as he did very well. With DDR, no more scoring is needed in the SL. Of course, Rudy will play the crunch. Same with Mills, seen as a PG by the coaches, not for his playmaking abilities but because of the corporate knowledge and his locker room leadership.
So we have a core of Aldridge-DeRozan-Murray starting, with Gasol/Poetl-Gay-Mills-Manu? as the second unit core. I understand LA, DDR, DJM will have a lot of ball on their hands so off-the-ball players and 3pt shooting are needed around them so I'd say at least one of Belinelli/Bertans could start. With Manu on the roster, I could see White as a starter on D Green minutes, without Manu I see White being Mills colleague on the bench backcourt. Cunningham's role is intriguing to me, as he could start at the PF or hardly get into the rotation. Forbes minutes are another big question to be answered, I don't like him but PATFO trusts him.
I'm afraid Lonnie Walker won't see a lot of NBA hardwood this season and I'm ok with that. After watching him in summer leagues, the boy needs to learn the game playing it. Huge potential to be developed on the court, not warming the bench.
That being said, forget about it
Murray (28') - Mills (20')
DeRozan (31') - White (17') - Forbes (8') - Looney
Belinelli (20') - Bertans (20') - Ginobili (17')
Aldridge (32') - Gay (24') - Cunningham (13')
Poetl (14') - Gasol (20')
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