Manu Ginobili Expected Back For A 17th Season

[Quadzilla99]

Yes.

For example, I was right about Kawhitter all along.

Predicting players like Boban Marjanovic was where the NBA was headed was a good look for you too

[Play Boban]

Predicting players like Boban Marjanovic was where the NBA was headed was a good look for you too

Link?

BTW, fitting username with the whole Kawhitter fiasco.

[Chinook]

I'm not trying to be a chode but you are arguing like they had much more of a choice in the signing. Have you thought maybe Manu wanted the player option? It is a miracle he is even still effective in the NBA so him wanting that option might be what made him satisfied. Your nitpicking a 2.5M 6th man legend contract.

You're not getting what I'm saying. The problem isn't that Manu is getting $2.5 Million. It's that SA didn't exploit the rules to make the league pay for about $1 Million of it. It would have made no difference for Manu's pocketbook. But it would have given the Spurs more room under the tax. If we could have any confidence that they'd go into the tax, it wouldn't matter. But they will cheap out on something this season. It's just a waste.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm not trying to be a chode but you are arguing like they had much more of a choice in the signing. Have you thought maybe Manu wanted the player option? It is a miracle he is even still effective in the NBA so him wanting that option might be what made him satisfied. Your nitpicking a 2.5M 6th man legend contract.

I think this is precisely what Chinook is arguing - it wasn't an option, it was guaranteed. If it had been an option Manu could have opted out and signed for the vet min, in which case not all of his salary would have counted against the cap. As the Spurs are only about $1.5 mil under the tax this would matter in a possible future trade where they'd have to take more money that would push them above the tax and it'd mean they'd need to do another deal, and possibly lose an asset, just to get back under the tax. That million or so that they unnecessarily put on the cap could limit their trading options.

[cutewizard]

Pop should limit Manu to half of the games or less

Strictly Mentor role in the regular season, then Bench Integrator in the playoffs.....

[SpursDynasty85]

You're not getting what I'm saying. The problem isn't that Manu is getting $2.5 Million. It's that SA didn't exploit the rules to make the league pay for about $1 Million of it. It would have made no difference for Manu's pocketbook. But it would have given the Spurs more room under the tax. If we could have any confidence that they'd go into the tax, it wouldn't matter. But they will cheap out on something this season. It's just a waste.

You're right that I don't get it. All I'm saying is maybe the way it was structured was exactly how Manu wanted it. How would you structure it where you gave Manu the same guarantee but gave the Spurs more flexibility?

[SpursDynasty85]

I think this is precisely what Chinook is arguing - it wasn't an option, it was guaranteed. If it had been an option Manu could have opted out and signed for the vet min, in which case not all of his salary would have counted against the cap. As the Spurs are only about $1.5 mil under the tax this would matter in a possible future trade where they'd have to take more money that would push them above the tax and it'd mean they'd need to do another deal, and possibly lose an asset, just to get back under the tax. That million or so that they unnecessarily put on the cap could limit their trading options.

But isn't guaranteed money better than the player option then? Not trying to frustrate you but if it was guaranteed, Manu could've retired and still gotten paid a portion of all of his salary? Isn't that clearly better than a player option which is something Manu may have demanded last offseason?

[Chinook]

But isn't guaranteed money better than the player option then? Not trying to frustrate you but if it was guaranteed, Manu could've retired and still gotten paid a portion of all of his salary? Isn't that clearly better than a player option which is something Manu may have demanded last offseason?

Player options are also guaranteed. Tim opted in before he retired. Manu could have done the same.

[SpursDynasty85]

Player options are also guaranteed. Tim opted in before he retired. Manu could have done the same.

If Manu retires does he get the same amount of money with the player option? If it is, then I apologize and you are right. But if the structure gave Manu more guaranteed money without playing this year, he probably wanted it that way and definitely deserved it. Pau's contract on the other hand...

[Chinook]

If Manu retires does he get the same amount of money with the player option? If it is, then I apologize and you are right. But if the structure gave Manu more guaranteed money without playing this year, he probably wanted it that way and definitely deserved it. Pau's contract on the other hand...

To directly answer your question: Neither option guaranteed Manu money this season had retired without PATFO's blessing, but opting in would have given him the identical contract to the one he really signed, so in that sense he would have had the same guaranteed money.

When I said at the top that I ended up being wrong in my analysis, it wasn't because I misread the pros and cons. A 1-and-1 was still superior to a two-year deal for both sides except for one specific scenario. Had he wanted to keep playing, he could have opted out and either signed a deal that got him more money (2016) or just saved SA more by signing a new one-year deal. Had he wanted to retire, he would have just opted in and taken his check. As far as non-option years allowing the player to retire and keep the money, that's not true. Had Manu retired without SA's blessing, he'd have to give back this upcoming year's salary, whether he opted in or naturally had that year on the books. SA chose to give Tim his salary (probably as deferred compensation already agreed to), and they would have chosen to do so with Manu as well.

The only scenario where no option makes sense is if Manu legit doesn't trust PATFO to re-sign him if he opted out. Out of the Big Three, Manu's had the most run-ins with the front office, and he's seemed to be the most sensitive to Pop "wanting" him back. By doing a deal this way, Manu gets to ignore any potential snags to coming back. He can go to Argentina or another country without having to worry about opting in or having to sign anything. Maybe that convenience is worth it, but the stink of distrust in PATFO it brings was ill-timed all things considered.

[SpursDynasty85]

To directly answer your question: Neither option guaranteed Manu money this season had retired without PATFO's blessing, but opting in would have given him the identical contract to the one he really signed, so in that sense he would have had the same guaranteed money.

When I said at the top that I ended up being wrong in my analysis, it wasn't because I misread the pros and cons. A 1-and-1 was still superior to a two-year deal for both sides except for one specific scenario. Had he wanted to keep playing, he could have opted out and either signed a deal that got him more money (2016) or just saved SA more by signing a new one-year deal. Had he wanted to retire, he would have just opted in and taken his check. As far as non-option years allowing the player to retire and keep the money, that's not true. Had Manu retired without SA's blessing, he'd have to give back this upcoming year's salary, whether he opted in or naturally had that year on the books. SA chose to give Tim his salary (probably as deferred compensation already agreed to), and they would have chosen to do so with Manu as well.

The only scenario where no option makes sense is if Manu legit doesn't trust PATFO to re-sign him if he opted out. Out of the Big Three, Manu's had the most run-ins with the front office, and he's seemed to be the most sensitive to Pop "wanting" him back. By doing a deal this way, Manu gets to ignore any potential snags to coming back. He can go to Argentina or another country without having to worry about opting in or having to sign anything. Maybe that convenience is worth it, but the stink of distrust in PATFO it brings was ill-timed all things considered.

Thanks for the insight. I definitely agree that Manu has had the most trouble with his contracts. His first extension I recall was a ridiculously good deal considering he was more valuable than Parker at that time. And when he got that Philly offer I'm sure Spurs were dangling veteran minimum contracts in front of him at that time too.

It would be sad to see Manu retire and not keep a more stable position within the organization. I recall a few offseasons ago he said he would not consider coaching in the NBA. He must've seen how much stress Pop goes through and envisioned how much less hair he would have. All in all, Manu's contribution to the organization is legendary and generous at the same time. Still hoping he takes an assistant coach position here in the future.

[DAF86]

You're not getting what I'm saying. The problem isn't that Manu is getting $2.5 Million. It's that SA didn't exploit the rules to make the league pay for about $1 Million of it. It would have made no difference for Manu's pocketbook. But it would have given the Spurs more room under the tax. If we could have any confidence that they'd go into the tax, it wouldn't matter. But they will cheap out on something this season. It's just a waste.

Is there a plausible explination for why PATFO didn't do this, or they just ed it up?

[Chinook]

Is there a plausible explination for why PATFO didn't do this, or they just ed it up?

I went into a theory a bit earlier, but I actually think Manu intended to retire. Like, REALLY intended to, to the point where I'm still not sure he's coming back (has anyone actually confirmed this outside of Amico?). In that regard, last year was just a "last ride" sort of thing. The easiest answer without going into anything meta is that PATFO didn't care about the flexibility and saw a chance to get Manu for the same money whether he came back or retired. They avoided any chance of paying him $14 Million this season by doing this, though it seems unlikely that that was going to happen.

[Quadzilla99]

Link?

BTW, fitting username with the whole Kawhitter fiasco.

Oh so you didn't want to play boban?

[BillMc]

Can Manu make this official already. Paul is gone. We all know its going to happen.

[gambit1990]

[illusioNtEk]

I have a feeling he is not coming back

[K...]

I have a feeling he is not coming back

He's on this long long vacation (its all on Insta and Twitter). I can imagine him wanting to cram in family before starting grueling training, or being so far away that he cant imagine coming back.

[cutewizard]

Thanks for the insight. I definitely agree that Manu has had the most trouble with his contracts. His first extension I recall was a ridiculously good deal considering he was more valuable than Parker at that time. And when he got that Philly offer I'm sure Spurs were dangling veteran minimum contracts in front of him at that time too.

It would be sad to see Manu retire and not keep a more stable position within the organization. I recall a few offseasons ago he said he would not consider coaching in the NBA. He must've seen how much stress Pop goes through and envisioned how much less hair he would have. All in all, Manu's contribution to the organization is legendary and generous at the same time. Still hoping he takes an assistant coach position here in the future.

Agree......

[SAGirl]

So any real news on Manu?
August already. Probably by the end of the month guys usually start to get together for training camp. He has to know a already which way his heart is swinging.

[Play Boban]

He’s coming back according to my sauces. The guy at the local Whataburger is friends with the dude who works at the car wash next door and his girlfriend’s brother’s father’s cousin knows someone in Baha’i Blanca who knows a guy who works at the store Manu’s father’s friend frequents. It’s all but comfirmed.

[sammy]

Awesome! GOAT!

[kuato]

He’s coming back according to my sauces. The guy at the local Whataburger is friends with the dude who works at the car wash next door and his girlfriend’s brother’s father’s cousin knows someone in Baha’i Blanca who knows a guy who works at the store Manu’s father’s friend frequents. It’s all but comfirmed.

[Dex]

So any real news on Manu?
August already. Probably by the end of the month guys usually start to get together for training camp. He has to know a already which way his heart is swinging.

No official news yet, but per his Twitter, he is still out vacationing. I really doubt we get a formal decision from him until he is done trek setting.

That said....all signs seem to point to him coming back. As you said, it would be awful late in the game for him to surprise PATFO with a retirement announcement, and Manu doesn't seem like the type who is going to get the Spurs stuck in a situation with their pants down. I feel like he has given them some sort of indication, and they seem to be acting like they expect him back.

[bklynspursfan]