Starting Lineup for Game One

[JR3]

This team will be so much better than last years. Def looking forward to watching even though we are not true contenders.

[objective]

I'm starting to expect the worst, Mills starting, which was trash.

Going back over game full game highlights from last season after be Parker came back and was on the bench, it was frustrating to see Murray be handicapped by constantly being paired with small guys like Mills, Parker and Forbes. He almost never got to enjoy the advantages of his size at his position because Pop seemed to never pair him with anyone his size and bigger.

So then either Murray was stuck guarding twos or threes, or even worse Mills, Parker and Forbes getting shot right over and wrecked by twos and threes.

I'd hoping Pop does the different thing and plays Murray the majority of the time with decent sized players. Murray-White-DeRozan, or Murray-DeRozan-Gay, or Murray-Marco--DeRozan. Anything to avoid Murray-Mills or Murray-Forbes.

[Fusternino]

I'm starting to expect the worst, Mills starting, which was trash.

Going back over game full game highlights from last season after be Parker came back and was on the bench, it was frustrating to see Murray be handicapped by constantly being paired with small guys like Mills, Parker and Forbes. He almost never got to enjoy the advantages of his size at his position because Pop seemed to never pair him with anyone his size and bigger.

So then either Murray was stuck guarding twos or threes, or even worse Mills, Parker and Forbes getting shot right over and wrecked by twos and threes.

I'd hoping Pop does the different thing and plays Murray the majority of the time with decent sized players. Murray-White-DeRozan, or Murray-DeRozan-Gay, or Murray-Marco--DeRozan. Anything to avoid Murray-Mills or Murray-Forbes.

I think it's the opposite. Mills (or Forbes is Mills is cold) is going to play. Who do you play him with? A big PG. Manu is getting too old for that so Murray-Mills makes a lot of sense.

[alfahdlan]

Mills-Murray-Ginobili-Gay-Aldridge gave Spurs a fighting chance last playoff and a win. Sub DD for Manu may give the same result.

[Coach X]

Again people is confusing starting line up with best/closing games line up.
We all would be close to agree on who will play the clutch, but speaking about opening the regular season games:

Rudy can’t play as 3 anymore in this league. I’m all in with him at 4, though. Mills is a 1 for Popovich, he’s not starting. Both will have to lead the second unit. The roster, last season and Popovich history are telling us so.

DeRozan, Belinelli, Manu will play minutes at the 3. Bertans might have a chance as well.

Poetl/Gasol will play the 5 next to Aldridge.

Training camp and preseason games will define who’s joining Murray-DDR-LA.

[007nites]

I don't want to see Gasol start. I don't even want him to come off the bench.

Murray
Derozan
Gay
Bertans
Aldridge

Maybe around Jan/Feb you can swap out Poetl for Bertans and put Poetl at the 5 and Aldridge at the 4.

[BackHome]

I really do not care who starts to me it’s about who finishes that is the most important

[Chinook]

I don't get why people have DD at the 3. He's a bad defender at the 2, which is his natural position, and will be far worse against the Durants, Lebrons, Paul Georges, etc of the league. So why put him at the 3? Isn't Gay far better suited?

I don't get why you don't get it. The Spurs don't play the Durant and James every game. Those are extreme cases. Most of the time, they play SFs who aren't particularly hard to guard with a guy DeRozan's size. That makes at least as much sense as putting a PF on them like Gay. I want to see Rudy get more center minutes than wing minutes (even though I don't want him to get center minutes either with Pau and Poeltl on board).

[Chinook]

first thought is pop is going to start out with the murray/mills backcourt again, until white wins the job from mills. but we dont really have a backup pg at this point, so maybe he opts with marco instead of patty at the 2

so murray/belinelli/derozan/aldridge/gasol

gay subs in for gasol and aldridge slides to the 5

White's a PG, who I see no reason why he wouldn't get the nod there. I mean, sure, he has a ton of upside as a starter too. But it's not like Patty is a better fit as a one than Derrick. They shouldn't break up Manu/Beli anyway. I'd much rather them try to build an ideal bench and just fill in cracks around LMA and DMDR anyway, because the team lacks true complimentary players for those guys as it is. Murray/ /DeRozan/Aldridge/Gasol can work well together, especially if Murray's shot is real, DeRozan and Pau get the 3-5 PnP working and that blank is a shooter. But without it being a three-and-D SF, it may as well just be Patty.

[Leetonidas]

Agree with OP. Pop will start with Pau and Aldridge again but I'm confident the opening night SL will not be the same a couple months in

[Chinook]

Agree with OP. Pop will start with Pau and Aldridge again but I'm confident the opening night SL will not be the same a couple months in

Well, of course not. Pop always changes. But on paper, Gasoldrdige is easily the best combination for the front court. Pau synergizes really well with both LMA and DMDR, and the defense needs rim-protection with Green and Leonard gone.

[Leetonidas]

Gasol is just so old, slow, and clumsy though. Really hope that Poeltl is starting after 20 games

[BackHome]

I really do not care who starts to me it’s about who finishes that is the most important

[Leetonidas]

I really do not care who starts to me it’s about who finishes that is the most important

Disagree. Spurs found themselves in way too many big holes because their SL couldn't score for last year. Pop needs to figure out a SL that doesn't have us digging out of a hole to start every second quarter

[BackHome]

I do agree that Pop has to win the ones we have a chance and not try to make a point and loose and easy game.

[TD 21]

As glad as I am to see Kawhi the Cancer gone, it sucks that Green had to be shipped out in that deal. Green would’ve been ideal to take over the 3. You’d likely have a rotation of:

PG - Murray, Mills, White, Forbes
SG - DeRozan, Belinelli, Ginobili, Walker
SF - Green, Gay, Cunningham
PF - Aldridge, Bertans
C - Gasol, Poeltl

Yeah, Green instead of Mills was my biggest gripe about the trade. It had to be one of them or Gasol though to make it work financially though.

Had they been able to pull that off and not signed Belinelli beforehand, the roster would be so much more balanced . . .

Aldridge/Bertans/Cunningham
Green/Gay
Gasol/Poeltl
DeRozan/Ginobili/Forbes/Walker
Murray/White

Would have needed a young, 3rd PG for depth.

I don't get why you don't get it. The Spurs don't play the Durant and James every game. Those are extreme cases. Most of the time, they play SFs who aren't particularly hard to guard with a guy DeRozan's size. That makes at least as much sense as putting a PF on them like Gay. I want to see Rudy get more center minutes than wing minutes (even though I don't want him to get center minutes either with Pau and Poeltl on board).

And when they play those types, when what? Players don't always play the position they're best suited to in general, but the one they're best suited to given the composition of their roster. Unfortunately, this one will need Gay to play more SF than PF, the same way the Bulls will need Parker to and the Clippers will need one of Harris/Gallinari to.

It's not all about what's best for the starters though, it's also what's best for the 2nd unit. Mills is not only not a starting caliber player, but has chemistry with Ginobili and Belinelli. It's easy to envision Poeltl, Bertans and White, fitting in with their free flowing style. They don't need a designated go-to scorer/ball stopper inhibiting that.

[Chinook]

And when they play those types, when what?

They should just kiss their asses goodbye, because Pop didn't hold the line for OG, draft a forward at 18 or sign any wing with size. Obviously, they can put Gay/Cunningham in if DeRozan/Murray just can't get it done. They're playing Minny in Game One, and you don't need a guy of Gay's size on Butler. Just have Murray guard him, DeRozan Wiggins and Mills Teague.

Players don't always play the position they're best suited to in general, but the one they're best suited to given the composition of their roster. Unfortunately, this one will need Gay to play more SF than PF, the same way the Bulls will need Parker to and the Clippers will need one of Harris/Gallinari to.

The roster is set up as being guard-heavy, and this seems intentional. Pop isn't going to have so many guards but play PFs at SF because of "roster limitations". It makes much more sense that DeRozan and Beli will be SFs because that's best for the personnel. Ideally, they have two big defensive SFs who can shoot to run with DMDR and Ginobili, but this is what they have. Of course, when looking at the bench exclusively, the Spurs can probably do reasonably well with Gay/Bertans as the forwards. Most teams don't have backup wings that will torch that duo.

It's not all about what's best for the starters though, it's also what's best for the 2nd unit. Mills is not only not a starting caliber player, but has chemistry with Ginobili and Belinelli. It's easy to envision Poeltl, Bertans and White, fitting in with their free flowing style. They don't need a designated go-to scorer/ball stopper inhibiting that.

I don't think anything about last year has discouraged Pop from starting Mills. Patty has history with Beli and chemistry with Manu, but he also has experience with the starters now and is a strong offensive fit between Murray and DeRozan. If not him, maybe Beli starts (and I guess you can say he's the three). Both of them are much more important offensive fits than they are defensive liabilities. Gay is a much more important sixth man than he is a third-starter. It seems clear that Pop always wanted Gay to remain there to replace Manu as a focal point for the second unit.

Murray/Belinelli/DeRozan/Aldridge/Gasol
Mills/Ginobili/Gay/Bertans/Poeltl

That could make sense, as could

Murray/Mills/DeRozan/Aldridge/Gasol
White/Ginobili/Belinelli/Gay/Poeltl

But this just feels like the worst of both worlds

Murray/DeRozan/Gay/Aldridge/Gasol
Mills/Ginobili/Belinelli/Bertans/Poeltl

No spacing on O for the first unit and no size or defense and no offensive foundation for the second unit. Manu should not even be playing at this point, let alone being the main bench creator. Sure, back in like 2012, that would be an intriguing unit, but even that squad had Diaw and Jack to assist.

[TD 21]

They should just kiss their asses goodbye, because Pop didn't hold the line for OG, draft a forward at 18 or sign any wing with size. Obviously, they can put Gay/Cunningham in if DeRozan/Murray just can't get it done. They're playing Minny in Game One, and you don't need a guy of Gay's size on Butler. Just have Murray guard him, DeRozan Wiggins and Mills Teague.

Butler would plow right through Murray. At the very least, they'd have to have DeRozan guard him, with Murray on Wiggins (not nearly as strong as Butler).

The roster is set up as being guard-heavy, and this seems intentional. Pop isn't going to have so many guards but play PFs at SF because of "roster limitations". It makes much more sense that DeRozan and Beli will be SFs because that's best for the personnel. Ideally, they have two big defensive SFs who can shoot to run with DMDR and Ginobili, but this is what they have. Of course, when looking at the bench exclusively, the Spurs can probably do reasonably well with Gay/Bertans as the forwards. Most teams don't have backup wings that will torch that duo.

I don't think it was intentional. I think it was a combination of the perceived best talent they could get and their hands being somewhat tied in the Leonard trade. When the off season began, they probably thought they'd eventually have one of Brown, Covington, Ingram.

First you claim Gay is strictly a PF, then claim he'll be the backup SF when there's no 2nd wing who's going to command typical starters minutes (which would mean he'd still play it a far amount against starters).

I don't think anything about last year has discouraged Pop from starting Mills. Patty has history with Beli and chemistry with Manu, but he also has experience with the starters now and is a strong offensive fit between Murray and DeRozan. If not him, maybe Beli starts (and I guess you can say he's the three). Both of them are much more important offensive fits than they are defensive liabilities. Gay is a much more important sixth man than he is a third-starter. It seems clear that Pop always wanted Gay to remain there to replace Manu as a focal point for the second unit.

Murray/Belinelli/DeRozan/Aldridge/Gasol
Mills/Ginobili/Gay/Bertans/Poeltl

That could make sense, as could

Murray/Mills/DeRozan/Aldridge/Gasol
White/Ginobili/Belinelli/Gay/Poeltl

But this just feels like the worst of both worlds

Murray/DeRozan/Gay/Aldridge/Gasol
Mills/Ginobili/Belinelli/Bertans/Poeltl

No spacing on O for the first unit and no size or defense and no offensive foundation for the second unit. Manu should not even be playing at this point, let alone being the main bench creator. Sure, back in like 2012, that would be an intriguing unit, but even that squad had Diaw and Jack to assist.

Ideally, they probably preferred to have Gay be the 6th man. But unforeseen cir stances played a significant part in this roster construction. White is the eventual focal point of the 2nd unit.

So they're going to pay Bertans $7-7.5M to be a non rotation player and bury Cunningham, who they gave a portion of the MLE to (the difference was miniscule financially, but the symbolism wasn't)?

It's the worst of both worlds if they're played that way for long stretches. In reality, they'll be plenty of mixing and matching, but that 2nd unit doesn't need an "offensive foundation" (look no further than last season's Raptors, who were the league's best). They'll get by with superior basketball IQ.

[Chinook]

Butler would plow right through Murray. At the very least, they'd have to have DeRozan guard him, with Murray on Wiggins (not nearly as strong as Butler).



I don't think it was intentional. I think it was a combination of the perceived best talent they could get and their hands being somewhat tied in the Leonard trade. When the off season began, they probably thought they'd eventually have one of Brown, Covington, Ingram.

First you claim Gay is strictly a PF, then claim he'll be the backup SF when there's no 2nd wing who's going to command typical starters minutes (which would mean he'd still play it a far amount against starters).

Ideally, they probably preferred to have Gay be the 6th man. But unforeseen cir stances played a significant part in this roster construction. White is the eventual focal point of the 2nd unit.

So they're going to pay Bertans $7-7.5M to be a non rotation player and bury Cunningham, who they gave a portion of the MLE to (the difference was miniscule financially, but the symbolism wasn't)?

It's the worst of both worlds if they're played that way for long stretches. In reality, they'll be plenty of mixing and matching, but that 2nd unit doesn't need an "offensive foundation" (look no further than last season's Raptors, who were the league's best). They'll get by with superior basketball IQ.

. I had typed a long response to this, but my browser wonked out and deleted it.

Cliff Notes:

Murray has to be able to guard Butler-like players.
The Spurs probably always wanted DeRozan and let Anderson walk. I'm not sure they were caught unware or assumed they were getting Cov/Ingram/Brown.
Gay is a PF but might be able to get away with SF off the bench. There is a shortage of SF minutes, despite your assumptions, so he shouldn't be forced into duty there against starters.
Cunningham is being paid like a 12th man and probably is getting the min anyway. He's not promised anything.
Bertans and Beli are competing with White and Poeltl for two-and-a-half rotation spots. Money won't save them, as neither is getting paid all that much.
Manu getting older means he needs a creator on the bench with him. Toronto ran two PGs off their bench, and you have SA running none.

[Coach X]

From Gay-Bertans duo, Rudy is the 4 and Davis is the 3. You can use the "size-of-ass" criteria or what this really means: quickness, lateral movement, mobility far from the ring, transition speed, strength under the board, etc. Add to this the 3pt shooting. I believe Popovich is trying Davis in the SF, it's his natural position, he's only played PF in the NBA.

Inserting Bertans in the starting SF will fix the spacing problem. Defensively, Is it worst to have Bertans guarding SF than having Marco doing it or all the problems would cause having Mills? I doubt so. what would be Bertans weakness in defense, being beaten? You have two bigs to protect the rim. On the other hand, Davis can rotate and contest quickly all over the place, can switch with bigs and give a hand protecting the rim and rebounding. He's fast and good running the court as a wing as well. To me is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure if Pop will do it.

Murray-DeRozan-Bertans-Aldridge-Gasol/Poetl
Mills-Manu-Marco-Gay-Gasol/Poetl
White would be the wildcard to replace anybody in the rotation in case of injury, rest, CD and Forbes, Cunningham 12th 13th men.

[Mario1976]

This

[TD 21]

. I had typed a long response to this, but my browser wonked out and deleted it.

Cliff Notes:

Murray has to be able to guard Butler-like players.
The Spurs probably always wanted DeRozan and let Anderson walk. I'm not sure they were caught unware or assumed they were getting Cov/Ingram/Brown.
Gay is a PF but might be able to get away with SF off the bench. There is a shortage of SF minutes, despite your assumptions, so he shouldn't be forced into duty there against starters.
Cunningham is being paid like a 12th man and probably is getting the min anyway. He's not promised anything.
Bertans and Beli are competing with White and Poeltl for two-and-a-half rotation spots. Money won't save them, as neither is getting paid all that much.
Manu getting older means he needs a creator on the bench with him. Toronto ran two PGs off their bench, and you have SA running none.

- No, he doesn't and having him do so would be ridiculous.
- Suspect they preferred Brown or Ingram (so long as the Lakers paid a tax for being the Lakers). If they truly wanted DeRozan, the only logical explanation for the delay was haggling over Anunoby because the actual trade was a no brainer for the Raptors.
- This is the same coach who had Mills and Forbes guarding Thompson and Durant, yet you think Gay starting at SF would be a stretch? There's not a shortage of SF or wing minutes because White is unlikely to have as big a role as many assume or he should.
- Considering Cunningham is in his prime, has been a rotation player for 7 seasons and a part time starter for 4, it's safe to say he's not joining a non contender to be buried on the deep bench. In small ball matchups, expect him to be the 4th big (at Poeltl's expense).
- Belinelli isn't competing for a rotation spot. He's got that on lock. Whether you agree that he should or not, you should know better.
- Maybe, but as long as Ginobili is playing, the ball is going to primarily be in his hands on the 2nd unit. Point is, the Raptors 2nd unit has a bunch of guys who can make plays in different ways and that Spurs one would too.

[Dverde]

- No, he doesn't and having him do so would be ridiculous.
- Suspect they preferred Brown or Ingram (so long as the Lakers paid a tax for being the Lakers). If they truly wanted DeRozan, the only logical explanation for the delay was haggling over Anunoby because the actual trade was a no brainer for the Raptors.
- This is the same coach who had Mills and Forbes guarding Thompson and Durant, yet you think Gay starting at SF would be a stretch? There's not a shortage of SF or wing minutes because White is unlikely to have as big a role as many assume or he should.
- Considering Cunningham is in his prime, has been a rotation player for 7 seasons and a part time starter for 4, it's safe to say he's not joining a non contender to be buried on the deep bench. In small ball matchups, expect him to be the 4th big (at Poeltl's expense).
- Belinelli isn't competing for a rotation spot. He's got that on lock. Whether you agree that he should or not, you should know better.
- Maybe, but as long as Ginobili is playing, the ball is going to primarily be in his hands on the 2nd unit. Point is, the Raptors 2nd unit has a bunch of guys who can make plays in different ways and that Spurs one would too.

Is there a “prime” for a Dante Cunningham?

[spurs10]

I'm looking forward to this game and think that Gay will start unless Pop already has a sixth man role mapped out for him. In which case I could see Beli starting. We need someone who can shoot from the outside of course....I'll be all eyes and ears. I have a feeling we will see Beli and Gay out there together when we're closing some games- Murray, Derozan, Beli, Gay/Bertans, LMA.

[Dverde]

- No, he doesn't and having him do so would be ridiculous.
- Suspect they preferred Brown or Ingram (so long as the Lakers paid a tax for being the Lakers). If they truly wanted DeRozan, the only logical explanation for the delay was haggling over Anunoby because the actual trade was a no brainer for the Raptors.
- This is the same coach who had Mills and Forbes guarding Thompson and Durant, yet you think Gay starting at SF would be a stretch? There's not a shortage of SF or wing minutes because White is unlikely to have as big a role as many assume or he should.
- Considering Cunningham is in his prime, has been a rotation player for 7 seasons and a part time starter for 4, it's safe to say he's not joining a non contender to be buried on the deep bench. In small ball matchups, expect him to be the 4th big (at Poeltl's expense).
- Belinelli isn't competing for a rotation spot. He's got that on lock. Whether you agree that he should or not, you should know better.
- Maybe, but as long as Ginobili is playing, the ball is going to primarily be in his hands on the 2nd unit. Point is, the Raptors 2nd unit has a bunch of guys who can make plays in different ways and that Spurs one would too.

Is there a “prime” for a Dante Cunningham?