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  1. #201
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Kobe and Manu would be a more fair comparison, I wouldn´t say Manu is over KB but he is very close, Kobe won 5 rings because he had refs on his side (Sacramento 2002) then he had a superlaker team, Horry Shaq Fisher add to that Phil Jackson, lets just say 2002 le is full of crap.

    Then another issue with Kobe nobody likes to say, he is the biggest brick shooter/clunker in NBA history.
    So he has a million points, but at what cost?

    Manu doesnt get superstar treatment because he plays in a small market team, same that TD, Spurs with ref help could have won 7 rings easily.
    The only people that gets top 5 treatment are superstars because thats what media sells.
    So nobody talks about Jordan getting raped by Celtics and Pistons, and how the NBA had to adjust things to make him look better.
    Nobody talks about Lebron getting 5 steps to the rim.
    Nobody likes to point out the ty elbow slapping defense that the CHeat played during their successful years, and now GSW is doing it too.

    Thats how some people still thinks Carmelo is a legend, or Dwert is still relevant.

    Ray Allen won a ring by traveling, and stepping out of bounds on other play, but you count that ring as legit.
    That le was taken from Spurs, so what refs take from small teams goes to the hyped ones,


    Gay Ray grabbed his right hand first, not the ball.
    That video to me was not a foul. Tbh. I think Popovich's reaction and Manu's reaction sold the announcers before they clearly saw the replay. Honestly if the sides were switched we would say that was a good play. Kobe had his faults so did Manu. (Wreckless at times, turnovers, injuries, etc...) He was not always dominating like you want us to believe he missed shots too. Kobe was just a better player. Period. End of story. In no list anywhere should Manu be over Kobe. Just stop it. Wade and Manu are a much better comparison. I've seen both play at their peaks. They are both very exciting and can take over games with their passing and defense.

  2. #202
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    That video to me was not a foul. Tbh. I think Popovich's reaction and Manu's reaction sold the announcers before they clearly saw the replay. Honestly if the sides were switched we would say that was a good play. Kobe had his faults so did Manu. (Wreckless at times, turnovers, injuries, etc...) He was not always dominating like you want us to believe he missed shots too. Kobe was just a better player. Period. End of story. In no list anywhere should Manu be over Kobe. Just stop it. Wade and Manu are a much better comparison. I've seen both play at their peaks. They are both very exciting and can take over games with their passing and defense.
    I´ve seen both at their peaks and Manu is on par with Kobe, Wade doesnt have the same impact than Manu and always played vs terrible teams in the Leastern conference.
    Manu has better court vision, makes everyone around him better, can you say the same about Wade?
    Manu won everywhere, even beat Team USA with a bunch of nobodies, you think Wade could achieve the same if he had those argies as team mates?

    Answer= Wade was playing with TD AI, Lebron and he was 22 years old full of juice, so he could play in college then NBA but failed to beat a big nose and scrubs?
    If you cant beat the Arg NT with TD AI Amare, Jefferson, there is no chance at all Wade could beat team USA with a bunch of argie scrubs.

    Wade cant play PG, Manu can.
    We have seen Manu´s career making huge stuff without getting help from refs.
    Can you say Wade would be the same without zebras helping his ass?
    Can you say Manu´s career would have been better if he was getting lots of help and FTs?

  3. #203
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    I´ve seen both at their peaks and Manu is on par with Kobe, Wade doesnt have the same impact than Manu and always played vs terrible teams in the Leastern conference.
    Manu has better court vision, makes everyone around him better, can you say the same about Wade?
    Manu won everywhere, even beat Team USA with a bunch of nobodies, you think Wade could achieve the same if he had those argies as team mates?

    Answer= Wade was playing with TD AI, Lebron and he was 22 years old full of juice, so he could play in college then NBA but failed to beat a big nose and scrubs?
    If you cant beat the Arg NT with TD AI Amare, Jefferson, there is no chance at all Wade could beat team USA with a bunch of argie scrubs.

    Wade cant play PG, Manu can.
    We have seen Manu´s career making huge stuff without getting help from refs.
    Can you say Wade would be the same without zebras helping his ass?
    Can you say Manu´s career would have been better if he was getting lots of help and FTs?
    You're obviously a big Manu fan but your reasoning for backing up this debate doesn't hold any water. Bringing up 2004 Olympics for Wade who was still a rookie is ridiculous. Yes I've seen Wade llay, he made players around him better and was really entertaining to watch. He played basketball the right way. Played hard on defense, was unselfish, and dynamic passer, scorer, and playmaker.

    Manu played with his childhood buddies that all turned out to be NBS talent. Quit crapping on the rest of that team to prop up Manu. Makes you look like a troll.

  4. #204
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    You're obviously a big Manu fan but your reasoning for backing up this debate doesn't hold any water. Bringing up 2004 Olympics for Wade who was still a rookie is ridiculous. Yes I've seen Wade llay, he made players around him better and was really entertaining to watch. He played basketball the right way. Played hard on defense, was unselfish, and dynamic passer, scorer, and playmaker.

    Manu played with his childhood buddies that all turned out to be NBS talent. Quit crapping on the rest of that team to prop up Manu. Makes you look like a troll.
    You like to prop guys for getting murky accomplishments, like Wade having 3 rings or Allen getting 2 as if they were legit.
    And when someone wins 4 rings and gets robbed on at least 1 you simply dont care.

    Wade played the right way? by getting 25 fts and winning by the whistle?

    You talk about trolls and you tell me because Manu played with his childhood buddies it was unfair?
    What the are you talking about? He is from Bahia, Oberto is from Cordoba, Gutierrez from Mar del Plata, Herman from Venado Tuerto, Nocioni from Santa Fe, Scola from BA.
    You dont have a clue of what are you talking about, also none of them played in Arg except Gutierrez, all the others played in different teams from Spain, Italy, Greece.

    Who is the troll now?

  5. #205
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    You like to prop guys for getting murky accomplishments, like Wade having 3 rings or Allen getting 2 as if they were legit.
    And when someone wins 4 rings and gets robbed on at least 1 you simply dont care.

    Wade played the right way? by getting 25 fts and winning by the whistle?

    You talk about trolls and you tell me because Manu played with his childhood buddies it was unfair?
    What the are you talking about? He is from Bahia, Oberto is from Cordoba, Gutierrez from Mar del Plata, Herman from Venado Tuerto, Nocioni from Santa Fe, Scola from BA.
    You dont have a clue of what are you talking about, also none of them played in Arg except Gutierrez, all the others played in different teams from Spain, Italy, Greece.

    Who is the troll now?
    Well. You may know more but those national guys in Argentina had been playing together for quite a while. From what I heard most of them had been in the program for the national teams since there teens. So yes I assume most of them were teenage friends playing together. Could be wrong but they still had way more experience than the USA squad.

    What makes your argument bad was Wade was a rookie and was not a big catalyst. He was just a young guy being prepped for future play. Why hate on Wade for bad refereeing. Manu got some good calls to and loved going to the line. Why is that a bad thing for Wade. When you argue for Manu you pretty much say everyone else in the NBA sucks. I at least give credit where credit is due. Your argument that Manu is probably 2/3 top ag of all time is a very small minority of basketball fans, experts, analysts, sports fans, world citizens, you name it. If your arguing Manu is top 3 you pick to win any playoff series. I'm right there with you. Arguing he is overall top 2 or 3 sg pf all time, is a stretch. What standard besides highlighting the cherrypicked achievements you choose as well. To vehemently argue it and discredit the other players the way you do makes it that much worse. You do not sound objective at all which makes arguing with you pointless as of now.
    Last edited by SpursDynasty85; 08-22-2018 at 07:49 PM.

  6. #206
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Well. You may know more but those national guys in Argentina had been playing together for quite a while. From what I heard most of them had been in the program for the national teams since there teens. So yes I assume most of them were teenage friends playing together. Could be wrong but they still had way more experience than the USS squad.

    What makes your argument bad was Wade was a rookie and was not a big catalyst. Why hate on Wade for bad refereeing. Manu got some good calls to and loved going to the line. Why is that a bad thing for Wade. When you argue for Manu you pretty much say everyone else in the NBA sucks. I at least give credit where credit is due. Your argument that Wade is probably 2/3 is a very small minority of basketball fans, experts, analysts, sports fans, world citizens, you name it. To vehemently argue it and discredit the other players makes it that much worse. You do not sound objective at all which makes arguing with you pointless as of now.
    You could say the same about Wade, Lebron and Carmelo since they have been friends since their teen days.

    Wade was 22 years old, he had TD, Iverson, Jefferson, Shawn Marion, Amare...

    Selected 5th overall in the 2003 NBA draft by the Miami Heat, Wade quickly emerged as a productive player on a youthful Miami Heat team and averaged 16.2 points on 46.5% shooting with averages of 4.0 rebounds and 4.5 assists per game.

    Before the 2004–05 season, Shaquille O'Neal was traded from the Los Angeles Lakers to the Heat. The following season, Miami improved by 17 games, from a 42–40 record in the 2003–04 season to an Eastern Conference-best 59–23 record in the 2004–05 season.[19] The league's coaches selected Wade to be a reserve in the 2005 All-Star Game. He scored 14 points in 24 minutes of play.
    In the first round of the 2005 NBA Playoffs, Wade averaged 26.3 points, 8.8 assists, and 6.0 rebounds while maintaining a 50% field-goal percentage[14] as the Heat swept the New Jersey Nets.

    So before that FIBA tournament he could average 16 ppg, thats a lot in a NT vs scrubs, and after that FIBA tournament he was scoring 26.3 ppg, thats because Shaq was there, thats why they went from 42 to 59 games.
    There are no excuses or bad arguments and Im gonna tell you why.

    When you win against Team USA in 2002 vs that crappy roster one can say well it was a fluke, but 2 times in a row is no fluke, specially with Duncan AI Jefferson, a 16 ppg Wade, agaisnt non athletic argies.

    Manu had a couple of refs calls, Wade had a trillion, not the same.
    You cant make Manu guilty for stuff that Wade did, you cant make Manu guilty because Harden had 30 FTs per game.

    You want to make Wade a victim when he abused of his tactic to get freebies and win championships with no honor, and Im a salty bad person and the refs too.
    When I talk about some player I want to point his real skills, not what the media sells me or tells me, specially when the guy Im defending has won in Europe, NT, NBA 4 times and had the biggest impact in international basketball.

    It is just like you say show me finals games with Manu having 25 FTA and Spurs winning by 1 point.

  7. #207
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    Who taught you? a liberal? Trump is the one affecting the stock market not Obama, stock market works speculating with Trump actions, not thinking about stuff made by Obama 5 years back.
    Would you say when Obama was getting better it was because W was great?

    Help me on this one, the unemployment rate doubled under W Bush, so
    a- we must blame it on Clinton
    b- when it got better during Obama years because it was so low, it got better because of W?

    Im not saying Trump is god, just stating what kind of country you have, you love to talk about mine not knowing much about it, so it seems fair to point things.

    Obama divided people, that never happened under W and he was a ty president, first this clown was respecting the law, just like Pelosi Schumer and all those fake clowns, they had respect for the laws, then close to election time they started swinging for the other team, suddenly illegals were not illegals as long they vote, the open borders they wanted to change well... that never happened.
    The law became a subjective thing regarding illegals, thats not putting america first, and lots of liberal idiots wanted open borders because of feelings.
    Look that stupid interview where he said: Illegal citizens are still citizens, nothing will happen to them if they vote...
    Even the dumb who made the interview said something stupid like= illegals, they are a big part of our community... what a globalist piece of .


    Add all his stupid famous supporters begun to talk divisive , you are with us, OR YOU ARE A BIGOT BECAUSE YOU FOLLOW THE LAW, then illiterate monkeys like Lebron started calling the president a bum.

    All Obama Hillary supporters became intolerant, like if Trump supporters must give explanations on why they support the man, specially on open border issues.
    Lots of families were separated because they had 20 years to fix their , some had TEMPORARY protection, but thats on Trump.
    Young 18 year old idiots took sides to attack confederation statues, because they were then when it actually happened!
    Actors and comedians spreading divisive messages when they know nothing about how to lead a country, its ok to have an opinion but where were you for the last 30 years, idiots like DeNiro who never had an opinion in 70 years talk about punching a president.
    They tried to appeal to actors musicians comedians to move the masses against Trump, what they dont understand is they are just entertainers, nobody wants their ty opinons, just be entertained.

    America will always be racist, but Omongo took it to a whole new level by trying to sell Trump was the incarnation of Hitler and all his stupid fan base is now spreading hate everywhere.

    Trump wont change those things, you will have all that in your ty country forever because the american regime is like that, people is expendable, and the country is over people, you will die then some others will die but america will have their resources and guns to have fun.

    1. Unemployment doubled under Bush in 2008. That was 7 years after Clinton left office. Like I said before Manu that it always takes a few years for the new presidents policies to take effect. Like I have said previously the truth hurts. If Unemployment doubled in '03 you could have said it was Clinton's fault since Bush' policies hadn't gone into full effect yet.
    2. The economy started to get better in the US after 2011 which is a few years after Bush left office and around the time Obama's policies went into effect. Every year after 2011 the unemployment rate kept on dropping.
    3. Also the stock market has been going up for the last several years of Obama's term. During Obama's presidency it went up by 140 percents. Only Clinton had a better increase since 1980.
    4. Your rant about illegals doesn't make any sense. Please cite sources where illegals were allowed to vote. That's bunch of crazy nonsense you are spewing.
    5. Obama deported over 2.5 million illegal immigrants. That is actually a record for deportations and was the highest for any presidency in US history. So you are full when it comes to your open boarders argument. Here is my source Manu if you don't believe me https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ob...d-more-people/
    5. Obama didn't divide the country. Your example of using celebrities is pretty re ed. Obama didn't rally them or tell them to speak out and divide people. Like always Manu you just don't make any sense.
    6. Celebrities and Athletes have nothing to do about the presidency. If you feel they are dividing America then that's a different argument than the president dividing America.
    7. Confederate statutes are an evil reminder of slavery and the civil war. They don't deserve to be respected. To me this is an example of how you are clueless about American culture.
    8. Both sides equally hate each other. You can't say one is more innocent than the other. Trump supporters are the same people who claimed Obama wasn't a US citizen which was a narrative pushed by Trump. So it's natural both sides will hate each other.
    9. You are definitely a mentally unstable person who should be in a mental hospital.
    Last edited by daslicer; 08-22-2018 at 09:26 PM.

  8. #208
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    1. Unemployment doubled under Bush in 2008. That was 7 years after Clinton left office. Like I said before Manu that it always takes a few years for the new presidents policies to take effect. Like I have said previously the truth hurts. If Unemployment doubled in '03 you could have said it was Clinton's fault since Bush' policies hadn't gone into full effect yet.
    2. The economy started to get better in the US after 2011 which is a few years after Bush left office and around the time Obama's policies went into effect. Every year after 2011 the unemployment rate kept on dropping.
    3. Also the stock market has been going up for the last several years of Obama's term. During Obama's presidency it went up by 140 percents. Only Clinton had a better increase since 1980.
    4. Your rant about illegals doesn't make any sense. Please cite sources where illegals were allowed to vote. That's bunch of crazy nonsense you are spewing.
    5. Obama deported over 2.5 million illegal immigrants. That is actually a record for deportations and was the highest for any presidency in US history. So you are full when it comes to your open boarders argument. Here is my source Manu if you don't believe me https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ob...d-more-people/
    5. Obama didn't divide the country. Your example of using celebrities is pretty re ed. Obama didn't rally them or tell them to speak out and divide people. Like always Manu you just don't make any sense.
    6. Celebrities and Athletes have nothing to do about the presidency. If you feel they are dividing America then that's a different argument than the president dividing America.
    7. Confederate statutes are an evil reminder of slavery and the civil war. They don't deserve to be respected. To me this is an example of how you are clueless about American culture.
    8. Both sides equally hate each other. You can't say one is more innocent than the other. Trump supporters are the same people who claimed Obama wasn't a US citizen which was a narrative pushed by Trump. So it's natural both sides will hate each other.
    9. You are definitely a mentally unstable person who should be in a mental hospital.
    1- Nonsense, because if you play like that when you claim Obozo economy started to grow (around 2011) then by 2016 it would be like prime Wilt which wasnt the case, even national debt went from 9 to 20 trillion.

    2- More nonsense, you dont have to keep using the previous potus economics if they are not working, Trump tax cuts had an instant effect for example.
    Trump and Obama (and their admirers) are slugging it out, both claiming that it is their policies that have led to the ongoing economic expansion, steady job growth and higher stock prices.
    Happily for President Trump, the pros agree with him. A recent survey of economists suggest it is President Trump, and not Obama, who should be taking a bow.

    3- The stock market works with present things, so any good or bad thing is what the market perceives or speculates about the future.

    4- Why you say that? Do you need an ID to vote in California or NY?
    California does not require proof of citizenship to vote (ie birth certificate or passport), and neither do any of the other states, despite the uncons utional efforts of Kansas, Alabama and Georgia to make that a requirement.

    5-And now he feels so sorry about that, lol
    Mental unstable


    Why there are 2 five points?

    5- Obama divided the country, first deported, then tried to get as many illegals to get votes, planting liberal seeds on the young generations making them believe they are en led to everything.
    The POS even wiretapped the Trump tower, but its ok since it fits your agenda.
    The king of mass shootings, kissing Cuba´s ass, telling people to hate the 1%ers he belongs to the 99% right?
    His words “While the top one per cent has amassed a bigger share of wealth and income,” it has been at the “expense of a growing middle class.” What a clown.
    Making programs based on race more than skills/merit, did nothing about BLM.
    “When you see civilians at risk, you don’t see them as strangers,” I wonder if he’s referring to Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Rekia Boyd or Aiyana Stanley-Jones. When he tells these police officers, “You see them as your own family, and you lay your life on the line for them,” I’m curious if that family includes the thirteen women sexually assaulted by Daniel Holtzclaw in Oklahoma City, and the thousands more who are afraid to report.

    6- They are dividers with an agenda too, and black jesus could say ¨Dear brother please stop hating¨ but no, then you have dividers like illiterate Lebron calling the president bum, the kneeling opera, hollyweirdos, nobody gives a about them but the hate is there.

    7- You cant judge the past with today´s standards, those 20 year old losers dont know a thing about that war so why even bother?
    Do they know Washington was a slave owner? what are they going to do? burn everything with his name on it? rename DC as Hillary DC?
    History exists to be aware of how were things and persons in the past, and learn from mistakes or improve using good things.
    Little bigots should eat a turd sandwich or bite a pillow.

    8- Thats a sad way to justify hate, there are not only 2 sides, lots of independent voters that were disappointed with Obama went with Trump, is not a miracle also Hilda is even worse than Obama, out of touch old hag calling deplorables because they dont support her rotten pussy.

    9-Im a stable genius and face it, truth hertz.

  9. #209
    Believe. San Antonio Slayer's Avatar
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    Wade has been always better in blocking, athleticism and he has a finals mvp trophy. That's it. And I just don't understand how people assess Manu lower than Miller, Drexler or Allen.

  10. #210
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    1- Nonsense, because if you play like that when you claim Obozo economy started to grow (around 2011) then by 2016 it would be like prime Wilt which wasnt the case, even national debt went from 9 to 20 trillion.

    2- More nonsense, you dont have to keep using the previous potus economics if they are not working, Trump tax cuts had an instant effect for example.
    Trump and Obama (and their admirers) are slugging it out, both claiming that it is their policies that have led to the ongoing economic expansion, steady job growth and higher stock prices.
    Happily for President Trump, the pros agree with him. A recent survey of economists suggest it is President Trump, and not Obama, who should be taking a bow.

    3- The stock market works with present things, so any good or bad thing is what the market perceives or speculates about the future.

    4- Why you say that? Do you need an ID to vote in California or NY?
    California does not require proof of citizenship to vote (ie birth certificate or passport), and neither do any of the other states, despite the uncons utional efforts of Kansas, Alabama and Georgia to make that a requirement.

    5-And now he feels so sorry about that, lol
    Mental unstable


    Why there are 2 five points?

    5- Obama divided the country, first deported, then tried to get as many illegals to get votes, planting liberal seeds on the young generations making them believe they are en led to everything.
    The POS even wiretapped the Trump tower, but its ok since it fits your agenda.
    The king of mass shootings, kissing Cuba´s ass, telling people to hate the 1%ers he belongs to the 99% right?
    His words “While the top one per cent has amassed a bigger share of wealth and income,” it has been at the “expense of a growing middle class.” What a clown.
    Making programs based on race more than skills/merit, did nothing about BLM.
    “When you see civilians at risk, you don’t see them as strangers,” I wonder if he’s referring to Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Rekia Boyd or Aiyana Stanley-Jones. When he tells these police officers, “You see them as your own family, and you lay your life on the line for them,” I’m curious if that family includes the thirteen women sexually assaulted by Daniel Holtzclaw in Oklahoma City, and the thousands more who are afraid to report.

    6- They are dividers with an agenda too, and black jesus could say ¨Dear brother please stop hating¨ but no, then you have dividers like illiterate Lebron calling the president bum, the kneeling opera, hollyweirdos, nobody gives a about them but the hate is there.

    7- You cant judge the past with today´s standards, those 20 year old losers dont know a thing about that war so why even bother?
    Do they know Washington was a slave owner? what are they going to do? burn everything with his name on it? rename DC as Hillary DC?
    History exists to be aware of how were things and persons in the past, and learn from mistakes or improve using good things.
    Little bigots should eat a turd sandwich or bite a pillow.

    8- Thats a sad way to justify hate, there are not only 2 sides, lots of independent voters that were disappointed with Obama went with Trump, is not a miracle also Hilda is even worse than Obama, out of touch old hag calling deplorables because they dont support her rotten pussy.

    9-Im a stable genius and face it, truth hertz.
    Basically in your words the economy is great because Trump's policies which have only gone into effect now. Like I said before but it takes a few years for these polices to go into effect. Also according to you young people in your words who are against confederate statues and take them down are bigots. In your words illegals are voting because states don't have voter ID requirements but at the same time that's always been the case. So going by your logic every elections there have been illegals voting in huge numbers. That video your posted is bunch of edited bs created by Fox news . This website debunks how that video was edited: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ob...liens-to-vote/ . Also in that video dumbass the person who asks if she can vote is a do ented AMERICAN CITIZEN. So how the is Obama encouraging illegals to vote when he says she can vote? Don't believe me her name is Gina Rodriguez and she was born in Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Rodriguez


    You don't understand how voting works here at all. Every citizen has a place where they are required to vote and that is determined by their voter registration card and street address. Once you go to your voting location you have to identify yourself by telling the voting registration people your first and last name and then they look you up and check you off the voting roll. I can't see millions of illegals actually going into a voting booths and pretending to be an actual american citizens. You gotta factor in that the american citizen they pretended to be would also report to the same voting booth that day only to be told by voting registration people when they look them up that someone had already voted in their place. Their would be millions of cases of voting fraud across the country but that's not the case. In 2016 there was only 4 incident of voting fraud in the whole entire US and the people who did it were actual American citizens that tried to vote twice https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.738686d11d82

    So I just don't buy into your bs that illegals are voting because it's been proven that they are not.

    I'm just calling it for what is that you are a RACIST which is why you hated Obama. That is evident when you say Lebron James is illiterate. I'm not even a fan of Lebron and think of him as a narcissist but calling him illiterate is one thing that I can't even say he is. You pretty much outed yourself right there .

    In a nuts you are a racist foreign conservative who hates Liberals but also es about how America doesn't have great liberal programs like universal health care, free college, and you are angry America spends a lot on the military. Sounds like a mentally unstable person to me. Truth is you are straight up re ed. Anyways I'm not going to waste my time with you. You are a conservative nut case that is going to hate any president or a person who is a democrat.
    Last edited by daslicer; 08-23-2018 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #211
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    The fact that this entire argument would devolve into a political debate shows how weak your arguments against Manu really are.

    Peak Manu takes a backseat to no other shooting guard except Michael Jordan. He takes a backseat to Kobe as well given Kobe's overall skillset (despite the inefficiency of Kobe's own numbers). The Wade/Manu argument is a legitimate one given their careers but the fact that they are comparable suggests that they're in the same tier - which is something that you are refusing to acknowledge with all your banter.

    Again, no one else on the shooting guards all-time list, not even the top two players I mentioned above can say that they've won a game by each of the following methods: game winning assist, game winning block, game winning drawn offensive foul, game winning free-throw, game winning three pointer, game winning running banker, game winning steal, game winning screen, game winning full-court assist or a game winning deflection. Manu has checked off each of those boxes because of the greatness of his versatility. You refusing to credit Manu's intangibles as the key to his overall greatness is why you are fixated on Wade's / Miller's / Drexler's / Allen's numbers. Manu's BBIQ is off the charts.

  12. #212
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    Again, no one else on the shooting guards all-time list, not even the top two players I mentioned above can say that they've won a game by each of the following methods: game winning assist, game winning block, game winning drawn offensive foul, game winning free-throw, game winning three pointer, game winning running banker, game winning steal, game winning screen, game winning full-court assist or a game winning deflection. Manu has checked off each of those boxes because of the greatness of his versatility.
    that is so awesome ... thx for putting this together

  13. #213
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    The fact that this entire argument would devolve into a political debate shows how weak your arguments against Manu really are.

    Peak Manu takes a backseat to no other shooting guard except Michael Jordan. He takes a backseat to Kobe as well given Kobe's overall skillset (despite the inefficiency of Kobe's own numbers). The Wade/Manu argument is a legitimate one given their careers but the fact that they are comparable suggests that they're in the same tier - which is something that you are refusing to acknowledge with all your banter.

    Again, no one else on the shooting guards all-time list, not even the top two players I mentioned above can say that they've won a game by each of the following methods: game winning assist, game winning block, game winning drawn offensive foul, game winning free-throw, game winning three pointer, game winning running banker, game winning steal, game winning screen, game winning full-court assist or a game winning deflection. Manu has checked off each of those boxes because of the greatness of his versatility. You refusing to credit Manu's intangibles as the key to his overall greatness is why you are fixated on Wade's / Miller's / Drexler's / Allen's numbers. Manu's BBIQ is off the charts.
    Actually I think he admits that yes at their peaks and in a playoff series they are very comparable but Wade has played a lot more minutes and has always been the guy until Levron took over in the 11-12 season. What we are trying say is m it's hard to consider him overall better because Manu did not play very many minutes, did not have to carry a team they way Wade did, and did not seem as durable. In a playoff series to win it all most here would probably take Manu but it is not 100% sure. There are others that could be considered like Reggie, Ray, Iverson, Gervin, Clyde, etc...

    Edit: Have to add Klay and Harden to that mix. It's a very mixed bag. Manu loses some points because of coming late to the NBA and playing off the bench and with one of the best pick n roll bigs of all time, Duncan. Just things to consider. It's not set in stone. Most analyst and lists put Manu in the top 15 range. Is 95% of the sports fans delusional really?

  14. #214
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Actually I think he admits that yes at their peaks and in a playoff series they are very comparable but Wade has played a lot more minutes and has always been the guy until Levron took over in the 11-12 season. What we are trying say is m it's hard to consider him overall better because Manu did not play very many minutes, did not have to carry a team they way Wade did, and did not seem as durable. In a playoff series to win it all most here would probably take Manu but it is not 100% sure. There are others that could be considered like Reggie, Ray, Iverson, Gervin, Clyde, etc...
    The minutes issue was strictly Pop trying to prolong his player's respective careers. Manu's minutes and usage percentage usually went up in the playoffs - where games really mattered. Take every series during Manu's playoff runs from 2005 - 2008 - his usage numbers ALWAYS increased and his efficiency percentages remarkably did not take a hit.

    TBH my biggest gripe against selecting Wade above Ginobili is knowing that his CHeat team was gifted the NBA Championship against the Mavs in 2006. In my mind, Wade became the posterchild for the league's meddling schemes. The officiating in that series was beyond anomalous, statistically so. I can't in good conscious give Wade the credit for that championship run KNOWING that the league intervened to make it happen. It was an egregious attack on the integrity of the game - and people quickly forgot how it all went down. The casual NBA fan is clueless about it.

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    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    Ginobli better than Jerry West? hahaha ok. This is what happens when young people with no sense of history speak. The only things that matter are things they were alive for. Better than Drexler???? cmon man. Even as spurs fans, we shouldn't entertain this bull .

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    Ginobli better than Jerry West? hahaha ok. This is what happens when young people with no sense of history speak. The only things that matter are things they were alive for. Better than Drexler???? cmon man. Even as spurs fans, we shouldn't entertain this bull .

    Jerry West was great... but the league was VERY different back then. The compe ion was weaker tbh.

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    The minutes issue was strictly Pop trying to prolong his player's respective careers. Manu's minutes and usage percentage usually went up in the playoffs - where games really mattered. Take every series during Manu's playoff runs from 2005 - 2008 - his usage numbers ALWAYS increased and his efficiency percentages remarkably did not take a hit.

    TBH my biggest gripe against selecting Wade above Ginobili is knowing that his CHeat team was gifted the NBA Championship against the Mavs in 2006. In my mind, Wade became the posterchild for the league's meddling schemes. The officiating in that series was beyond anomalous, statistically so. I can't in good conscious give Wade the credit for that championship run KNOWING that the league intervened to make it happen. It was an egregious attack on the integrity of the game - and people quickly forgot how it all went down. The casual NBA fan is clueless about it.
    You have to admit Wade in 09 & 10 on the Heat was amazing too. Wade was an amazing player regardless. To be compared to Wade is a definite compliment.

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    Ginobli better than Jerry West? hahaha ok. This is what happens when young people with no sense of history speak. The only things that matter are things they were alive for. Better than Drexler???? cmon man. Even as spurs fans, we shouldn't entertain this bull .
    It's why I can't respect these Manu s. They grossly overrate him. Try posting this nonsense on reditt or any other NBA fan forum and watch people laugh at the idea that Manu is the second greatest SG of all time after Jordan.

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    The fact that this entire argument would devolve into a political debate shows how weak your arguments against Manu really are.

    Peak Manu takes a backseat to no other shooting guard except Michael Jordan. He takes a backseat to Kobe as well given Kobe's overall skillset (despite the inefficiency of Kobe's own numbers). The Wade/Manu argument is a legitimate one given their careers but the fact that they are comparable suggests that they're in the same tier - which is something that you are refusing to acknowledge with all your banter.

    Again, no one else on the shooting guards all-time list, not even the top two players I mentioned above can say that they've won a game by each of the following methods: game winning assist, game winning block, game winning drawn offensive foul, game winning free-throw, game winning three pointer, game winning running banker, game winning steal, game winning screen, game winning full-court assist or a game winning deflection. Manu has checked off each of those boxes because of the greatness of his versatility. You refusing to credit Manu's intangibles as the key to his overall greatness is why you are fixated on Wade's / Miller's / Drexler's / Allen's numbers. Manu's BBIQ is off the charts.
    You can say Scottie Pippen has more versatility and intangibles than Kevin Durant but that still does not make him better than Durant. Same logic applies to Manu when comparing him to Wade/Drexler.

  20. #220
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    The minutes issue was strictly Pop trying to prolong his player's respective careers. Manu's minutes and usage percentage usually went up in the playoffs - where games really mattered. Take every series during Manu's playoff runs from 2005 - 2008 - his usage numbers ALWAYS increased and his efficiency percentages remarkably did not take a hit.

    TBH my biggest gripe against selecting Wade above Ginobili is knowing that his CHeat team was gifted the NBA Championship against the Mavs in 2006. In my mind, Wade became the posterchild for the league's meddling schemes. The officiating in that series was beyond anomalous, statistically so. I can't in good conscious give Wade the credit for that championship run KNOWING that the league intervened to make it happen. It was an egregious attack on the integrity of the game - and people quickly forgot how it all went down. The casual NBA fan is clueless about it.
    Showing you are a bias Manu . You won't give credit because it makes Wade better than Manu.

  21. #221
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    You can say Scottie Pippen has more versatility and intangibles than Kevin Durant but that still does not make him better than Durant. Same logic applies to Manu when comparing him to Wade/Drexler.
    Whoa. When did Durant overtake Scottie Pippen? No way... I get your point it's a good one but Scottie was arguably the best player in the NBA minus Jordan from 92-97.

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    Whoa. When did Durant overtake Scottie Pippen? No way... I get your point it's a good one but Scottie was arguably the best player in the NBA minus Jordan from 92-97.
    In my eyes he overtook him a while ago. Durant has been a league MVP and the second best player behind Lebron since 2011. That's a good 7 years that he has been the second best player in the league. I disagree Scottie was never the second best player in the league. During that span of 92-97 I would take Olajuwon,Malone,Shaq,Barkley,Robinson over Scottie.

    Keep in mind I hate Durant. I think he's a but I can't deny his talent. His scoring ability is on a level that Scottie could never reach. I actually believe if you switched Scottie in Durant's place that the Warriors would be an easier team to beat. One of Scottie's weaknesses offensively is that his jump shot was decent at best but was very inconsistent.
    Last edited by daslicer; 08-23-2018 at 10:49 AM.

  23. #223
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    MJ
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  24. #224
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    Top 5 is a long shot.
    Top 10 is arguable.

    MJ - KOBE - WADE - ICEMAN - DREXLER - IVERSON - HONDO - LOGO - MANU - RAY

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    Karl Malone played 7488 minutes more than Duncan, 10432 more points. Dirk played 3205 minutes more, 4681 more points.
    Why is Duncan goatpf?? These guys carried way more load, way more productive, right?? In my other post I compared manu to mcgrady age 25 to 29, if you go age 25-30 manu actually played 296 more minutes than he did, not counting playoffs or national team. Wade played 2117 minutes more than manu in that span.
    How many scoring les did they win once they played with Tim Duncan caliber teammates? Did their stats go up or down? In the age of superteams, and as spur fans!, Is it really news that individual stats go down when you have great teammates?

    Again, I've never argued manu should be 2 3, 1000 or whatever. Its the re ed inconsistent arguments that annoy me- like 22 year old rookie Wade being too young to matter at the Olympics, yet 20 year old mcgrady is in his prime. All I'm saying is that if you are going to argue for guys like Wade, mcgrady, there are much more reasonable arguments than minutes and durability (or that nonsense about mcgrady having a more dangerous playing style, he was dismissed as soft his entire career). What did Wade and mcgrady do by themselves? First round exits, gaudy stats, broken bodies, is that bar so high to think manu couldnt do the same??


    And if the counter is 2006 Wade, he must be better than Duncan too, according to daslicer 06 Duncan was the best peak Duncan and he couldn't beat the Mavs that Wade did beat with a lesser supporting cast..

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