http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...rwolves-season
Assuming this ends up in a trade, and that PATFO could outbid other teams, where is your red line?
Is one year of Butler (and Bird rights) worth Murray and/or Walker plus unprotected picks? Is it worth taking on Dieng's contract, which is so bad that it makes Patty's deal seem reasonable?
Is a core of DeRozan, Butler and Aldridge good enough to beat the Warriors? If not, how close is it (like an injury away or a complete roster overhaul)?
Worth Murray or Walker plus picks? Yes. Both? No. I'd take on Dieng's contract if they'd only ask for one of Murray/Walker and take one of Gasol/Patty.
With a Butler/DeRozan/LMA core the Spurs would be on Houston's level, but would lack the defensive ability to beat GS even if they lost one of Curry/Durbeta.
I'm not sold on Butler as a big difference maker in the first place; but I would consider him to be an upgrade over Gay.
If you believe in mortgaging the future for going from a 0.05 % chance of winning a le to 0.35 % chance of winning a le.
Gasol, Mills, Walker, Spurs 2019 first and Toronto's 2019 1st
For
Butler and Dieng
I think that is more than fair value. Tbh
I’m not a fan, at this point. He’s pretty near his sell by date, and will be wanting a big contract next summer. He also
Cannot be considered a mentor in any way shape or form. Young players are an anathema to him. He’s flogged on them at both stops, so far. Also, he’s a rental. Unless it’s an extend and trade, you do NOT offer them your best young players.
Also, china doll. He’s only played over 70 games twice.
In a vacuum, I think Walker and Murray have near-equal value. But in a trade for Butler, I'd be much more willing to trade Lonnie. Jimmy replaces what you'd hope Walker could do this year while also adding a ton more. But the team would lack a starting PG and secondary defender on the perimeter, which does hurt the team's chances at winning a series against Golden State. The most I'd trade I think is Walker, the Raps pick and a Spurs pick with decent protections in addition to Gasol's contract is my line. That gives the team a clear path to contend this season while not compromising the ability to tank if something goes wrong. Simply put, Butler is too unpredictable to be worth more. Even if he wants to re-up, the team may not be all that willing to give him a full-max deal given his age and injury history. They also have to consider him a risk in the locker room.
Butler is an all-star caliber player that can play at both ends and happens to play the Spurs' biggest position of need. He isn't on Kawhi's level but he's as close as they could realistically get to replacing him. He's also young enough to where the Spurs could wait out the Dubs for another two years while developing the young players they'd keep (one of Murray/Walker, White, Metu). Heck, it also puts the Spurs another 3&D player away from being a challenge to the Dubs.
Not sure I'd want to pay Butler max money next offseason but from a basketball standpoint he makes perfect sense if the Spurs don't have to sell the farm for him.
I would see if the Wolves would be interested on taking DeRozan. A DeRozan/Butler pairing on the wings would be an awful fit, specially with Murray at PG. We would be the worst 3 pt shooting team on the league.
The problem is getting Butler doesn’t make us better than the Warriors and no way do I trade Walker or Murray. The 2 have the potential of being special. This is Year will be a throw away although I expect the Spurs to be very good.
Deeks updated his capulator. Doing the Butler trade that I proposed a few posts ago, then giving Jimmy a full-max deal results in this cap situation:
http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?...28a31833316413
That would leave the team with about $7 Million under the tax with 11 guys on the roster. That's not bad, but that number comes from letting everyone walk this summer, including Gay. The lack of a sixth man feels like a really big deal for how much the team invested in its stars. They'd have a few expiring contracts to use for trades, but they'd have to give up more future assets white not knowing if two of their main guys would remain on the team. It also doesn't help that Poeltl and Murray would be free agents and thusly would need new deals.
Paying max contracts to 3rd tier stars is how you ruin a franchise tbh. It's why the Wolves are in the mess that they are in since they waaay overpaid for Wiggins and they can't trade him for anything. Say what you want about Demar, but he was leading the Raptors to the 1 seed and a conference finals while Butler was barely an 8th seed with the Bulls in the pathetic East and losing in the first round. Add on that he's injury prone and a bad leader = no thanks to him being a Spur.
I wouldn't trade DeRozan for Butler. DeRozan fits the timeline with Aldridge better, and he fills a more important role for the offense. I don't disagree that that would be a problematic perimeter group, though. The biggest draw-back to this trade is that they'd have little time to develop chemistry before the club had to make a decision on sinking a ton of money into keeping it together. Given enough time and a willingness to make it work, I think the three could fit together. But I wouldn't expect it to work much better than OKC's trio did last season.
If it was Paul George, I'll try and pull the trigger. But Butler doesn't fit with the current makeup of this team. He needs to ball just as much as DD, and both are not great outside shooters to fit along with another. Besides, I think a healthy Gay gives 80% of Butler for a third of the cost. I would like the Spurs to try and nab Middleton if we are going to give up on our youth.
I wouldn't gut the team for a second tier star player.
I like Mids and think he's a great fit for the team. However, I don't see MKE wanting to do a trade with SA. SA's two best assets are Walker and Murray, and the Bucks have their own versions in Donte and Brogdon. I would take what SA has, but I don't see them being appealing to Bucks as rebuilding or contending pieces. They might like Poeltl if they are over Thon, and they might like Pau just as a player on his own. But neither guy seems worth moving Middleton for.
Maybe the Bucks straight-up don't want to re-sign him and are willing to do something like Middleton and Lopez for Gasol, both picks and Milutinov. That's a steep price from my perspective, and I'd still argue the Bucks could balk. Regardless, the Spurs would face a similar financial situation as I outlined earlier, with the possible exception that they could get Middleton for a few million cheaper per season. That difference could mean keeping Gay or reserving the MLE to replace him. Compared to a situation with Butler, the team would be more balanced but less talented. Ultimately, I'm not sure they'd be better prepared to face GS, though at least they'd be younger.
That's nice to know. But I assume there's a gap between that sentiment and one proposed by exstatic implying that Jimmy with his contract situation and other baggage is undesirable.
This roster is basically Aldridge, DeRozan, and . They can take guys 3-14 on this roster plus a first
He's overrated on offense. Very middle of the road. And he has a history of being a chemistry killer.
I would add to my original post that if a trade were to happen at the trade deadline, I would do only Gasol, and the Spurs and Toronto's picks for Butler.
Go all in tbh. If Pop really doesn't want to blow it up and rebuild before he retires then go all in and try to win a le.
Pretty much. Spur fan overrating their scrubs per usual.
I just don't see Butler moving the needle. And why give up young talent that we are in control of for a rental?
I do think Butler is better than some in here are implying. He's not as versatile as Kawhi on defense or as dominant of an offensive player, but he can defend the best players in the league and get others involved on O in a way Leonard can't. Had the Spurs had Butler instead of DeRozan, then I'd absolutely want the team to take a shot at contending. The Warriors seem like a juggernaut, but I'd compare SA favorably to any other team in the league if they had a core of Butler/Aldridge/some offensive-orient star guard.
Pass!! I really think Murray and Walker have potential to be special
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