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  1. #101
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Just draining the swamp - what is wrong with that?
    It's the rule of law, or lack of it that should concern all of us. If prosecutors are given freedom to pull any thread and go any direction to get a target, vs. solve a crime - then it is just a matter of time until you are a target. Happening to a Dr. friend of mine right now. It is scary as when the Federal Government sets its site's on you, or someone you know.

    He cosigned some charts for patients at a Soboxone clinic. Ten years ago. Since then, the clinic has had some bad record keeping, and became sketchy. It got shut down last year, with the Fed taking ALL the records. Urine tests that were attached to charts when he saw them have gone missing - he can't prove they were there at the time. He's looking at losing his license, over a million dollar fine, and 30 years potentially. For something he did a decade ago - legitimately. But a net got cast, and he got caught up in it. And if you think, somehow, his actual innocence will save him? Think again. Federal prosecutors are advanced and rewarded for one thing - convictions. Notches on their guns.

  2. #102
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    and can be bent to political ends

  3. #103
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Except that the criminal enterprise that is occupying the White House are not some poor innocent citizens - they are CRIMINALS who have committed crimes. No different than other criminals who commit crimes and are prosecuted.
    I have little doubt (but no proof) that Trump has taken part in illegal (probably many) activities over his career. I would like, however, for the horse to be permanently placed in front of the cart. Identify a specific crime. Investigate that crime. Bring Charges. Convict.

    Not: Investigate a person, find a crime, etc....

  4. #104
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Criminal fishing expedition disguised as a counterintelligence investigation

    With oppo research innuendo as “reasonable amount of evidence”

    Good times

  5. #105
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    I think this investigation was properly authorized, but I think 101A has a legit point about the political weaponization of investigations.

    The Starr investigation is the best recent example for me, an investigation into real estate shenanigans that ended up focussing on an affair with an intern -- four years after the investigation started.

    The serial House investigations of Benghazi strike me as an example in the same vein. There's no good reason for them to have gone on as long as they did, except to create a cloud of su ion over a presidential candidate.

    Can you see what's to be concerned about, or has the possible political benefit of the current one blinded you to possible drawbacks?
    Did you catch Starr cashing in? Wrote a book about the whole affair (sic). Shouldn't be allowed (not sure how to stop it, however).

  6. #106
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    I think this investigation was properly authorized, but I think 101A has a legit point about the political weaponization of investigations.

    The Starr investigation is the best recent example for me, an investigation into real estate shenanigans that ended up focussing on an affair with an intern -- four years after the investigation started.

    The serial House investigations of Benghazi strike me as an example in the same vein. There's no good reason for them to have gone on as long as they did, except to create a cloud of su ion over a presidential candidate.

    Can you see what's to be concerned about, or has the possible political benefit of the current one blinded you to possible drawbacks?

    Everyone has just forgotten that Trump - might not even be a legitimate president. That Trumps' (pun intended) every other variable. A person - with assistance from an enemy foreign gov't - was complicit in election cyber ery and there is a good chance he is a fraudulent president. Just because everyone parrots the "no votes were tampered with" line - how do they know? There is no evidence they say -

    but there is an ongoing investigation into other crimes surrounding this and if the Dems get Congress back - they could open a true investigation into the actual vote counting and then we will see.


    On another note - how can you - with a straight face - after seeing Trumps entire campaign team and his personal lawyer and his accountant tax guy - all be guilty and/or cooperating come in here and post about weaponization of investigation when this is the ONLY campaign, the only white house administration with this level of corruption?

  7. #107
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    I think this investigation was properly authorized, but I think 101A has a legit point about the political weaponization of investigations.

    The Starr investigation is the best recent example for me, an investigation into real estate shenanigans that ended up focussing on an affair with an intern -- four years after the investigation started.

    The serial House investigations of Benghazi strike me as an example in the same vein. There's no good reason for them to have gone on as long as they did, except to create a cloud of su ion over a presidential candidate.

    Can you see what's to be concerned about, or has the possible political benefit of the current one blinded you to possible drawbacks?
    In the book he describes how they were "going" to indict Hillary.

    But you DIDN'T!

    So don't ing write about it now, just to sell some books and further impugn her. You were a ing special counsel spending bazillions of our dollars, and didn't charge her - not enough evidence. Then why the is there enough now to slander her and make some coin?

  8. #108
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    Not: Investigate a person, find a crime, etc....
    Papa Dop lit the fuse of evidence, FBI started investigating towards a crime, not towards a person.

  9. #109
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    if your greedy and/or ambitious, being a prosecutor is one of the good ways to go.

    if you don't make it as a politician, you can always be a defense lawyer.

  10. #110
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    Everyone has just forgotten that Trump - might not even be a legitimate president. That Trumps' (pun intended) every other variable. A person - with assistance from an enemy foreign gov't - was complicit in election cyber ery and there is a good chance he is a fraudulent president. Just because everyone parrots the "no votes were tampered with" line - how do they know? There is no evidence they say -

    but there is an ongoing investigation into other crimes surrounding this and if the Dems get Congress back - they could open a true investigation into the actual vote counting and then we will see.


    On another note - how can you - with a straight face - after seeing Trumps entire campaign team and his personal lawyer and his accountant tax guy - all be guilty and/or cooperating come in here and post about weaponization of investigation when this is the ONLY campaign, the only white house administration with this level of corruption?
    What about the ballot boxes in Chicago and S. Texas? Kennedy AND Johnson are frauds. Nixon - duh - fraud. Clinton's got elected with illegal Chinese money - frauds. GWB? Hanging chads and - Fraud.

    There is more evidence for each of those than for Trump conspiring with Russia to tilt the election. Speaking of which, if Putin is such a Machiavellian that, with THAT LITTLE work, he could sway a multi-billion dollar election in the most powerful, richest country on earth, then we should just bow to our over-lord. We are out of our depth.

  11. #111
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    Not: Investigate a person, find a crime, etc....
    So entrapment/baiting (allegedly) is legit now?

  12. #112
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    What about the ballot boxes in Chicago and S. Texas? Kennedy AND Johnson are frauds. Nixon - duh - fraud. Clinton's got elected with illegal Chinese money - frauds. GWB? Hanging chads and - Fraud.

    There is more evidence for each of those than for Trump conspiring with Russia to tilt the election. Speaking of which, if Putin is such a Machiavellian that, with THAT LITTLE work, he could sway a multi-billion dollar election in the most powerful, richest country on earth, then we should just bow to our over-lord. We are out of our depth.

    Whataboutism

    The new USA - post Trump: "It's ok - lets be corrupt because everyone else is!"

  13. #113
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    Whataboutism

    The new USA - post Trump: "It's ok - lets be corrupt because everyone else is!"
    I thought you were the one justifying corruption? Only you wish it to be ins utionalized and legitimized. He's corrupt, so any means necessary to take him down. What could possibly go wrong?

  14. #114
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    The problem with Trash escaping punishment is that it tells America, in dramatic fashion, that cheating, lying, fraud, etc by the President is OK, so then it's OK for everybody else (unless you're non-white and non-male).

  15. #115
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    I thought you were the one justifying corruption? Only you wish it to be ins utionalized and legitimized. He's corrupt, so any means necessary to take him down. What could possibly go wrong?
    You got it pretty twisted.
    Trump's crimes will take him down. He did it - and continues to do it to himself. The evidence will lead to the money will lead to the truth will lead to his prosecution for crimes committed.

    See how this works?

  16. #116
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    The nation stands with Mueller and salutes his service.
    Amen.

  17. #117
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    The nation stands with Mueller and salutes his service.
    Amen.
    Trump might take a knee on that one.

    And not just because bone spurs

  18. #118
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    You got it pretty twisted.
    Trump's crimes will take him down. He did it - and continues to do it to himself. The evidence will lead to the money will lead to the truth will lead to his prosecution for crimes committed.

    See how this works?
    Can you tell me the crime that's being investigated that he's going to be charged with. If it is anything other than "Russian Collusion with the Trump campaign to sway the election", or something VERY closely related to that, then I will probably have a problem with it. Not that whatever it is won't convince me that Trump shouldn't be president - but I already think that. Of course, this kind of prosecutor behavior can be used to make us think that about anyone. That's kind of the point.

  19. #119
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    So entrapment/baiting (allegedly) is legit now?
    I bet you're OK with FBI encouraging/baiting/stinging otherwise innocent Muslims?

    Who has Mueller entrapped / baited?

  20. #120
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Of course, this kind of prosecutor behavior can be used to make us think that about anyone. That's kind of the point.
    you mean the behavior where this prosecutor hasn't said word one? you mean prosecutor that never responds to trumps attacks?


    what do you mean?

  21. #121
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Everyone has just forgotten that Trump - might not even be a legitimate president. That Trumps' (pun intended) every other variable. A person - with assistance from an enemy foreign gov't - was complicit in election cyber ery and there is a good chance he is a fraudulent president. Just because everyone parrots the "no votes were tampered with" line - how do they know? There is no evidence they say -

    but there is an ongoing investigation into other crimes surrounding this and if the Dems get Congress back - they could open a true investigation into the actual vote counting and then we will see.


    On another note - how can you - with a straight face - after seeing Trumps entire campaign team and his personal lawyer and his accountant tax guy - all be guilty and/or cooperating come in here and post about weaponization of investigation when this is the ONLY campaign, the only white house administration with this level of corruption?
    I'm not carrying water for DJT or griping about this investigation. We're talking about the view from 10,000 feet.

    There's nothing dissonant about saying this investigation is properly predicated, but that, in general, there might be foreseeable problems with open ended, wide ranging probes of government officials.

    When the shoe's on the other foot you'll rediscover your concern about this.

  22. #122
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    Trump might take a knee on that one.

    And not just because bone spurs

  23. #123
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    Can you tell me the crime that's being investigated that he's going to be charged with. If it is anything other than "Russian Collusion with the Trump campaign to sway the election", or something VERY closely related to that, then I will probably have a problem with it. Not that whatever it is won't convince me that Trump shouldn't be president - but I already think that. Of course, this kind of prosecutor behavior can be used to make us think that about anyone. That's kind of the point.
    Mueller is working from the outside of the criminal circle inwards. Russian hackers> data analytics> russian bots> trump campaign associates having contacts with russians> obstruction of justice to derail the investigation>

    leading to Trumps inner circle of criminals.

    Conspiracy to defraud the USA - has already been tried and convicted. If Trump knew - and when he knew of it - becomes an indictment (all evidence points to him knowing and conspiring - public evidence) =
    then Trump will also be in for a Conspiracy to Defraud the USA - in collusion with Russia/Putin.
    Other crimes "that arise" from the investigation like:
    money laundering, tax evasion, tax fraud, campaign finance felony violations, illicit payoffs, etc..
    will just be a result of a careless criminal deciding to run for the highest office in the land when he knew better than anyone that he had a warehouse/closet full of bodies.

  24. #124
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    I'm not carrying water for DJT or griping about this investigation. We're talking about the view from 10,000 feet.

    There's nothing dissonant about saying this investigation is properly predicated, but that, in general, there might be foreseeable problems with open ended, wide ranging probes of government officials.

    When the shoe's on the other foot you'll rediscover your concern about this.
    It's already been on the other foot.

    Multiple times.

  25. #125
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    I'm sure he didn't want Baylor to go through all the rape scandals either.

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