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  1. #501
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    A confirmation hearing isn't a court. Judicial standards of proof do not and never have applied.

    Senators vote their conscience. That's it.

    Pure political determination. Always has been, always will.
    That is true so they should go to a vote and let the consequences of November fall where they may. But a legal standard is the only standard that we have to show that both the accuser and the accused can prove their case with any legitimacy, so that is the standard that I use to determine if Kavanaugh should or should not be on the bench. Anyone can make up a good story and even get some facts that corroborate to some minor degree. But if it has no evidence, you can't presume anyone is guilty of attempted rape, in my book. With the only exception being Harvey Weinstein-like scenario where 30 women come forward. Then you can see smoke and fire. But this is far from that not only in number of allegations, but in concrete and verifiable facts.

  2. #502
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    What Ford is trying to do is delay this tell midterms
    What does that matter? Even in the best case the Republicans will still control the senate until 2019 and could confirm that got as late as the end of December.

  3. #503
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    That is true so they should go to a vote and let the consequences of November fall where they may. But a legal standard is the only standard that we have to show that both the accuser and the accused can prove their case with any legitimacy, so that is the standard that I use to determine if Kavanaugh should or should not be on the bench. Anyone can make up a good story and even get some facts that corroborate to some minor degree. But if it has no evidence, you can't presume anyone is guilty of attempted rape, in my book. With the only exception being Harvey Weinstein-like scenario where 30 women come forward. Then you can see smoke and fire. But this is far from that not only in number of allegations, but in concrete and verifiable facts.
    let the Senators hear both sides and decide for themselves.

    if one side fails to show it loses by default.

  4. #504
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    C'mon man, seriously?
    It is not rocket science. How many crimes looked unsolvable, no witnesses, no tape, too long ago, etc?
    The FBI has experts that can find avenues to the truth. Their questioning might trigger a memory - which can lead to a kernel of a lead. This could come from her, from the other witness, from K.
    They can piece together and actually discover that a party did take place, then they trace that. Then the attendees, then the address. There will be dead ends. There will be breakthroughs.

    Say they come back empty. What is the harm? They can say - not enough evidence and then K can be confirmed with no stain to his record.

    Say they come back with some additional facts - and then after having these facts - K - or Ford - get asked about these facts and one of them lies under oath?

    So many ways this could end up - but at least the truth will emerge.

    Trump will not authorize this. He will bury it. Spin it. Lie to your face and you will believe the liar with over 5,000 lies on his resume since taking an oath.
    Cases like this are never investigated to begin with, and not just because they would be barred by statute of limitations anyway. The FBI are not hypnotists. They can't make someone remember things. Either a person remembers it or they don't. Coaxing something to remember something they don't is what leads to speculation and is not evidence. You can argue all day that the story is credible. But I agree. It is a credible story. But just because it's a credible story doesn't make it true.

  5. #505
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    WH might do well to drop Kavanaugh. He isn't very popular.

    a SCOTUS with 22% accused sex abusers overturning Roe v Wade won't go over too well.

  6. #506
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    Apparently there are two contemporaneous friends she confided the wanna-rape attack to, and they are supposed to come forward.

    all y'all's elite Jesuit HS Catholic product is dead meat



  7. #507
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    What does that matter? Even in the best case the Republicans will still control the senate until 2019 and could confirm that got as late as the end of December.
    I think Dems want the Republicans to have a vote. It helps their November message.

  8. #508
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    let the Senators hear both sides and decide for themselves.

    if one side fails to show it loses by default.
    I'm fine with a hearing even though it won't change the fact that it's a he said/she said. I think it will help Ford and hurt Kavanaugh. But I don't think it will change anything unless new, verifiable allegations are made.

  9. #509
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    WH might do well to drop Kavanaugh. He isn't very popular.

    a SCOTUS with 22% accused sex abusers overturning Roe v Wade won't go over too well.
    He's not going to overturn Roe vs Wade technically. Just overturn it in practice via death by 1000 cuts. Ginsburg's objection to previous abortion laws that women of money will always be able to get an abortion by crossing state lines will still hold.

  10. #510
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    WH might do well to drop Kavanaugh. He isn't very popular.

    a SCOTUS with 22% accused sex abusers overturning Roe v Wade won't go over too well.
    That's something to weigh, but Roe v. Wade is never being overturned. I think there's a legit debate as to how the opinion was decided, but practically speaking, it is too explosive to overturn. Everyone has complained that this bench is too conservative as is and yet you get Obamacare upheld and gay marriage. I mean, do people really think Roe is in danger? It's not. It's just a way to drive your party to get out and vote.

  11. #511
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    That's something to weigh, but Roe v. Wade is never being overturned. I think there's a legit debate as to how the opinion was decided, but practically speaking, it is too explosive to overturn. Everyone has complained that this bench is too conservative as is and yet you get Obamacare upheld and gay marriage. I mean, do people really think Roe is in danger? It's not. It's just a way to drive your party to get out and vote.
    Roe vs Wade is in danger in red states.

  12. #512
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    cd98 is apparently oblivious to the legal trend in various states

  13. #513
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    it's just a matter of time before Roe is tested

  14. #514
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    cd98 is apparently oblivious to the legal trend in various states
    Whole Woman's Health v. erstedt would have for sure gone 5-4 Republican with Gorsuch and Kavanaugh replacing <seat McConnell left empty> and Kennedy.

  15. #515
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    "What happens at Georgetown Prep, stays at Georgetown Prep," said Brett Kavanaugh "jokingly" during a 2015 speech at the Catholic University's Columbus School of Law in Washington DC. "That's been a good thing for all of us, I think."

  16. #516
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    cd98 is apparently oblivious to the legal trend in various states
    I believe I said that Roe v. Wade would not be overturned. I didn't say that there won't be limits imposed on abortion. But don't worry, you can still get an abortion in Texas if you need one. https://www.aclutx.org/en/know-you-r...rtion-in-texas

  17. #517
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I believe I said that Roe v. Wade would not be overturned. I didn't say that there won't be limits imposed on abortion. But don't worry, you can still get an abortion in Texas if you need one. https://www.aclutx.org/en/know-you-r...rtion-in-texas
    It will be overturned in practice when red states make new laws to shut down abortion clinics with a rock solid 5-4 Republican majority in the court.

  18. #518
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    Did anyone here not do dumb things as teenagers
    ?

    Rape is wrong period but people do dumb things as teenagers
    The last defense you want to use is The Avante Defense.

  19. #519
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    It will be overturned in practice when red states make new laws to shut down abortion clinics with a rock solid 5-4 Republican majority in the court.
    So if Garland was nominated all the guns would go away too?

  20. #520
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    So if Garland was nominated all the guns would go away too?
    Garland was nominated.

  21. #521
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    Ed Whelan@EdWhelanEPPC





    By one week from today, I expect that Judge Kavanaugh will have been clearly vindicated on this matter. Specifically, I expect that compelling evidence will show his categorical denial to be truthful. There will be no cloud over him.
    5:37 PM - Sep 18, 2018


    Yikes. That's quite a promise. I wonder what's coming.

  22. #522
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    Spoke too soon. More coming out from Dems on corroborating the story contemporaneously. This is going to get interesting from both sides...

  23. #523
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    Ed Whelan@EdWhelanEPPC





    By one week from today, I expect that Judge Kavanaugh will have been clearly vindicated on this matter. Specifically, I expect that compelling evidence will show his categorical denial to be truthful. There will be no cloud over him.
    5:37 PM - Sep 18, 2018


    Yikes. That's quite a promise. I wonder what's coming.

    It is called wishful thinking - or the fact that corrupt repugs are beginning their "nothing to see here folks- judge K is confirmed - and then - what? Trump tweeted what? oh -look - a squirrel!" spin.

  24. #524
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Did anyone here not do dumb things as teenagers
    ?

    Rape is wrong period but people do dumb things as teenagers
    you need therapy.

    not a joke.

  25. #525
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    A Senate Judiciary Committee aide said chairman Sen. Chuck Grassley will offer to send staffers to California to interview professor Christine Blasey Ford, if that makes her more comfortable.


    The aide said the letter to Ford’s lawyer will be made public soon.
    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...dle/index.html

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