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Thanks for the graphics and stats! Great work.
I wouldn't worry, I doubt DD and Poeltl will share the floor ton of minutes this season.
After timvp's interesting analysis of the Spurs roster, I looked at the stats of last year's Raptors roster, more precisely the 5-man-lineups.
First: Some of the numbers are based on a very small sample size. So you have to take it carefully.
Poeltl had some nice net ratings with all of the lineups he played in, except 2 lineups with Demar. These were really bad. Not so tragic, one might think. It could also be on other players, who made it that bad. Unfortunately, when you take a look at Demar's numbers, it's noticeable that he made every 5-man-lineup better except the lineups with Poeltl.
The net rating of Derozan's & Poeltl's 2-man-lineups underpin the theory. In both cases their pairing is among the worst 3.
So what's the problem with them? Is it on offense or on defense?
Poeltl's offensive ratings took a hit when he played with DeRozan & Lowry. Not so when he played with DeRozan & VanFleet.
Same for DeRozan. There is one 5-man-lineup that played worse with DeMar, it had also Poeltl & DeMar in it. (The other one has a 4-minute sample-size.)
When it comes to defense it gets really bad.
Again: Poeltl's defense took a hit when playing with DeMar & Lowry. When VanFleet was involved instead of Lowry the rating wasn't good, but at least it was better than combinations without Poeltl.
Derozan's defensive ratings got worse in all 5-man-lineups with Poeltl.
Conclusion: It wasn't so much a problem between Demar & Jakob, but there was no chemistry at all, when coach Casey mixed up the bench and starters. So it didn't work well, when Poeltl played with the starters guards. Same for the defense, but much more extreme, because of Demar's defensive liabilities.
But what does it mean for the Spurs?
I hope they won't use hockey line-ups like the Raptors. So that Demar & Jakob develop some chemistry with all of the Spurs players. But both have to get better when they leave their comfort zone.
Poeltl has to be more active and agressive on offense. Play with confidence! On defense he has the tendency to overhelp. That's why he needs at last one good defensive guard, when Demar shows no improvement.
Demar has to be more active and agressive on defense. On offense: Less isolation plays, more ball movement. He got better with it last season, but that has to continue.
Last edited by ragas; 10-05-2018 at 07:37 AM.
Thanks for the graphics and stats! Great work.
I wouldn't worry, I doubt DD and Poeltl will share the floor ton of minutes this season.
Interesting. It’s so hard to say what that translates to for the Spurs because they’ll both be utilized differently here, and there will be a different impact from the players around them.
That’s definitley something to watch though. Nice work!
Excellent analysis and great post!
Nice work, thanks for sharing!
Strange that Derozan and Poeltl don’t have better numbers offensively. Derozan is a should be a good pick and pop player, good handles, good passer, good mid range shot and Poeltl sets good picks, has good hands and is a high percentage finisher around the basket. Seems like they should be a great combo on offense.
Yeah that's strange. It will be interesting to see this season
these things are nice to look at but without context, they don't really mean anything and on top of that there's a caveat about small sample sizes. I appreciate the effort, but doesn't really mean anything to me right now.
Perhaps a raptors fan could explain it to me, but that's not what we are down here. So just got to see how they do in the season.
Last edited by SAGirl; 10-05-2018 at 03:08 PM.
well that sucks for toronto.
Small sample size.
Is this still Basketball ?
No. It's Reading Rainbow.
I feel like reading.
When you put both players in the context of a completely different team, none of this might translate.
Im not paying attention to toronto stats. Hiving them both a clean slate and want to wait and see how the numbers materialize this year.
Its the lowry factor and my hope that pop can put both players in better situations to suceed. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Lowry runs an inneficeint offense to say the least. Thats why they gravitated towards putting the ball in demar's hands more. That lowry factor holding them back a tad is something i am hoping is real.
You would have to dive deeper than these stats and see what kind of plays Toronto actually ran when Poodle and DeMar were on the floor together. It's possible that they just didn't run much P and R together. Anyway, they are both in a different system now, so we will have to wait and see how they work together as Spurs...
Brynivere just forced a five-second call. Good on him.
The funniest part of the thread is that op missed timvp making the same conclusion he came up with, in the original timvp run down
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