Start Bertans right now

[kobyz]

I would not start him even in the d league, i think you can find a bunch of better player than him in the d league...

[Coach X]

Times goes by and Spurs doesn't realize Davis Bertans can't be a PF in the NBA. He's a wing and he's been it all his career preNBA.

Just in this last game, compare his minutes at PF vs his minutes at SF next to Rudy Gay (PF) at the end of the 3rd quarter (Gasol-Gay-Bertans-DeRozan-Mills vs Williams-Kuzma-Stevenson-Hart-Rondo):
- DB Defending Kuzma: Rondo scores a three, Mills misses an off the cut blank lay-up from Gasol, Williams score rolling after side p&r with Rondo assisting, Gay and1 taking his own rebound after 1on1.
- Then KCP subs Kuzma: Belli takes him, Bertans takes Hart in the perimeter and Gay takes Stevenson (being able of helping inside and rebounding, where Rudy is effective in D). The quarter finishes with 4 consecutive stops and Bertans sits after 15" of the fourth.

Bertans is quick for his size, agile but not strong. As a helper, his body can't absorb the contact of a strong penetrator or a post player. He's not a good rim protector as an interior helper but he's an effective second helper coming from outside or behind. He can't block or box out a PF or a C facing them 1on1, but he can block and rebound above the rim when he's coming from outside. Davis is fast enough running the court, agile enough to escape from screens and his range and wingspan are useful bothering shooters. With San Antonio playing with one or two bigs (plus Gay) protecting the paint, the problem of Davis being beaten in 1on1 is less worrying than him having to be the helper. As I've said, he can contribute more to the team defense as an SF than as PF.

Offensively, there is no doubt what's his role and how can he fit into the system. He's a good fit to Aldridge inside game, DeRozan penetrations or Gay mid-range 1on1.
I thought PATFO offered Davis a new contract (and let go Anderson) willing to give him regular minutes at the SF position. Davis hasn't had any continuity as a Spurs and I'm still expecting Popovich to give him a real chance of showing what he can do. I will keep believing in Bertans until he's allowed to play in his position 10-15 consecutive games. Give him consistently just 15min/game in his position and finally we all will find out if he's a useful player or garbage.

Popovich doesn't need to make any big change, simply assign correct defensive matchups that will help your team defense instead of exposing your players' weaknesses.

[Chinook]

Bertans isn't a wing. He's not that agile and doesn't consistently move his feet well. He needs to be able to play with other forwards and be able to move back and forth between positions with those guys. Otherwise, what you're describing as putting him in a good position is really just hiding him. Checking Josh Hart is not a sign that one is a good wing defender.

[skookumchuck]

Times goes by and Spurs doesn't realize Davis Bertans can't be a PF in the NBA. He's a wing and he's been it all his career preNBA.

Just in this last game, compare his minutes at PF vs his minutes at SF next to Rudy Gay (PF) at the end of the 3rd quarter (Gasol-Gay-Bertans-DeRozan-Mills vs Williams-Kuzma-Stevenson-Hart-Rondo):
- DB Defending Kuzma: Rondo scores a three, Mills misses an off the cut blank lay-up from Gasol, Williams score rolling after side p&r with Rondo assisting, Gay and1 taking his own rebound after 1on1.
- Then KCP subs Kuzma: Belli takes him, Bertans takes Hart in the perimeter and Gay takes Stevenson (being able of helping inside and rebounding, where Rudy is effective in D). The quarter finishes with 4 consecutive stops and Bertans sits after 15" of the fourth.

Bertans is quick for his size, agile but not strong. As a helper, his body can't absorb the contact of a strong penetrator or a post player. He's not a good rim protector as an interior helper but he's an effective second helper coming from outside or behind. He can't block or box out a PF or a C facing them 1on1, but he can block and rebound above the rim when he's coming from outside. Davis is fast enough running the court, agile enough to escape from screens and his range and wingspan are useful bothering shooters. With San Antonio playing with one or two bigs (plus Gay) protecting the paint, the problem of Davis being beaten in 1on1 is less worrying than him having to be the helper. As I've said, he can contribute more to the team defense as an SF than as PF.

Offensively, there is no doubt what's his role and how can he fit into the system. He's a good fit to Aldridge inside game, DeRozan penetrations or Gay mid-range 1on1.
I thought PATFO offered Davis a new contract (and let go Anderson) willing to give him regular minutes at the SF position. Davis hasn't had any continuity as a Spurs and I'm still expecting Popovich to give him a real chance of showing what he can do. I will keep believing in Bertans until he's allowed to play in his position 10-15 consecutive games. Give him consistently just 15min/game in his position and finally we all will find out if he's a useful player or garbage.

Popovich doesn't need to make any big change, simply assign correct defensive matchups that will help your team defense instead of exposing your players' weaknesses.

Too much quality and factual truth in this post - spurstalk

[Coach X]

Bertans isn't a wing. He's not that agile and doesn't consistently move his feet well. He needs to be able to play with other forwards and be able to move back and forth between positions with those guys. Otherwise, what you're describing as putting him in a good position is really just hiding him. Checking Josh Hart is not a sign that one is a good wing defender.

I'm not saying he's a stopper or the next Danny Green. Just saying he can play better defense in his natural position. Minutes vs Hart are just an example. We barely have seen Bertans playing next to two bigs or a big+Gay like many other wings. Not trying to hide him, just giving him a fair environment for the player he is like any other player has.

I firmly believe he's a wing more than a forward. And his career in the NBA is up to that. I don't think he can play the 4 in the NBA unless he earns muscle and becomes a different player.

[BackHome]

He is never going to be a PF full time most of the time he should be at SF position. One thing I would like to see him do more is inside stuff he has decent handles and can do back door dunks or fake pump and then drive for lay up.

[spurraider21]

"future all star"

[RC_Drunkford]

Bertans need to find a in between game on offense. Midrange and driving to the hoop. On defense he's not physical enough to be a PF, he can't deal with contact and that makes him a weak rebounder. He's also too slow to defend athletic NBA wings and gets often caught out of position so they drive by him. He needs to work on his defensive stance and positioning on the perimeter or bulk up and get physical to play PF. At this point I would trade him

[spurraider21]

i wouldn't trade him though. i dont think we'd get much back for him and at worst he'll be an expiring deal we can throw around in the summer

he's overpaid for his role... 7 mil for a reserve shooting specialist is steep, but he can still find ways to contribute imo. early to be giving up on him. he's actually knocking down his shots at a high clip so far, so there's that

[DAF86]

Everybody's so quick to dismiss this guy. Give him 10/15 straight as the starter, let him gain some confidence and consistent minutes for once in his NBA career and then let's see if he's up to it or not.

Pop keeps ing up with his minutes and role non-stop, I'm sure that if Pop displayed the same type of confidence in Bertans, than he did with guys like Forbes or Murray, Bertans would be confident enough to unleash his full potential. This guy has one of biggest ceilings on this roster, it would be a mistake to keep treating him like a 9th or 10th guy.

[ceperez]

Everybody's so quick to dismiss this guy. Give him 10/15 straight as the starter, let him gain some confidence and consistent minutes for once in his NBA career and then let's see if he's up to it or not.

Pop keeps ing up with his minutes and role non-stop, I'm sure that if Pop displayed the same type of confidence in Bertans, than he did with guys like Forbes or Murray, Bertans would be confident enough to unleash his full potential. This guy has one of biggest ceilings on this roster, it would be a mistake to keep treating him like a 9th or 10th guy.

I don't know about upside here. He's got more mobility and hops than Matt Bonner. What I don't see is variety and creativity in his play.

[BackHome]

You can see it in his play he looks like he doesn’t want to make a mistake. He needs to be like Manu and just play and Pop has to treat him like Forbes and just leave him in there if he misses a defensive assignment.

We not close to winning a championship so find out before next draft what we have in him. He should be getting twenty minutes a game nothing less. If he sucks well then draft his replacement or try to trade him

[DAF86]

I don't know about upside here. He's got more mobility and hops than Matt Bonner. What I don't see is variety and creativity in his play.

He's an underrated rim protector and passer, but his best atributte by far is his quick shooting coming off screens. He's not a Bonner that could only shoot spot ups. When Bertans is feeling it, he can light it up in a hurry. He can go in some of those Klay Thompson flurries where he doesn't need to be well established to hit 3's. Pop needs to show a little more patience with Bertans to see if he can gain the confidence that allows him to translate what he did in Europe to the NBA.

[ceperez]

You can see it in his play he looks like he doesn’t want to make a mistake. He needs to be like Manu and just play and Pop has to treat him like Forbes and just leave him in there if he misses a defensive assignment.

We not close to winning a championship so find out before next draft what we have in him. He should be getting twenty minutes a game nothing less. If he sucks well then draft his replacement or try to trade him

I agree that he looks like he doesn't want to make a mistake.

[ceperez]

He's an underrated rim protector and passer, but his best atributte by far is his quick shooting coming off screens. He's not a Bonner that could only shoot spot ups. When Bertans is feeling it, he can light it up in a hurry. He can go in some of those Klay Thompson flurries where he doesn't need to be well established to hit 3's. Pop needs to show a little more patience with Bertans to see if he can gain the confidence that allows him to translate what he did in Europe to the NBA.

What is needed to get him comfortable.

Forbes seem to be comfortable now, but he's got the luxury of bringing the ball up and sometimes calling his own plays.

The only time Davis can call a play is when he drives to the basket avoiding a closeout. He doesn't seem to have the option to hog the ball like the other players.

[Chinook]

Davis' problem is that he doesn't try hard enough most of the time. Guards can box out, so there's no justification for Bertans not getting it done there. I do think a number of players are teeing off on him in a way that should be against the rules. Like I think it was the game against Indy where a player just straight up two-hand shoved Bertans to the ground and got away with it. Davis has to fight back there. He's never going to get away from having to hold his own against NBA strength and athleticism. It's never going to be okay how bad he is at rebounding. If the team has to play a second big and bench a perimeter play to get Bertans on the floor, then it really decentivizes playing Davis at all outside of certain situations.

[DAF86]

These are the types of things Bertans can do when playing with confidence:



But I guess that teaching him a lesson and yanking him at every little missed defensive rotation is better than trying to build his confidence.

[Mugen]

Yeah, I'm with DA on this one. I like Bertans starting next to Cunningham tbh. Mostly because I like the semblance of defense that Dante provides in the SL coupled with Rudy being better utilized off the bench.

Running a few plays for Bertans to start the game should also be a priority tbh, just so the defense has to account for him and get him confidence. Bertans definitely needs to toughen the F up and work on his cutting for layups (and not just fadeaway 3s) like Beli is so adept at.

[spurraider21]

These are the types of things Bertans can do when playing with confidence:



But I guess that teaching him a lesson and yanking him at every little missed defensive rotation is better than trying to build his confidence.

the problem is he's not any better than marco is he's going to be a defensive sieve. sure, he's bigger than marco, and theoretically should be a stretch 4... but as chinook pointed out, he just gets annihilated on the boards and on D. so if you're just going to play him as a 3, then there isn't a huge benefit of playing him over a belinelli

i agree that bertans offers potential because he rim protects as a help defender whereas marco is completely useless on that end. but we need to see consistent effort from him or at least a semi decent ability to box out

[Chinook]

Hitting a bunch of threes is something a lot of players can do with confidence. Bryn has done it. So has Marco. I do think it's up to Pop to get the most out of his players, and he can't sit there blameless when guys aren't playing the right way. But the burden remains on Davis to be a more consistent player at his age than he has been so far. He's an adult who's been a professional for a decade. He shouldn't need a coach to tell him to try harder on defense, nor should he be worried about being benched.

[TheGreatYacht]

Bertans looks like he doesn't want to make a mistake?

That's the dumbest I've ever read on here. He's never seen a shot he doesn't like.... or a rebound he didn't hate.

[DAF86]

the problem is he's not any better than marco is he's going to be a defensive sieve. sure, he's bigger than marco, and theoretically should be a stretch 4... but as chinook pointed out, he just gets annihilated on the boards and on D. so if you're just going to play him as a 3, then there isn't a huge benefit of playing him over a belinelli

i agree that bertans offers potential because he rim protects as a help defender whereas marco is completely useless on that end. but we need to see consistent effort from him or at least a semi decent ability to box out

Hitting a bunch of threes is something a lot of players can do with confidence. Bryn has done it. So has Marco. I do think it's up to Pop to get the most out of his players, and he can't sit there blameless when guys aren't playing the right way. But the burden remains on Davis to be a more consistent player at his age than he has been so far. He's an adult who's been a professional for a decade. He shouldn't need a coach to tell him to try harder on defense, nor should he be worried about being benched.

His defensive struggles are being highly overblown. Over his NBA career he rates exactly as an average defender. With time, confidence, experience and a little more name recognition from refs and rivals he should easily become above average on that end. If you add to that fact, that he has been a net positive on offense in each and every season he has played with the Spurs, then there's just no reason to keep him in such a short leash.

[Chinook]

His defensive struggles are being highly overblown. Over his NBA career he rates exactly as an average defender. With time, confidence, experience and a little more name recognition from refs and rivals he should easily become above average on that end. If you add to that fact, that he has been a net positive on offense in each and every season he has played with the Spurs, then there's just no reason to keep him in such a short leash.

Bertans needs to play like an adult, not a kid. I agree he's not actually incapable of being a good defender (like Forbes, Davis actually had really good analytics last year), which is why I don't buy this idea that Bertans is playing out of position. His struggles this year are definitely and effort/confidence thing. The question really is what's the best path the team can take going forward. Bertans is a very good shooter, but the team isn't really hurting for shooting anymore, especially on the perimeter. Davis needs to add more as a PF, because that's a spot where he could really get minutes this year.

Could Pop giving Bertans a longer leash help? Maybe, but it should be noted that Davis wasn't benched after just one mistake last game. He was benched after several. The reason why Pop's hook was annoying with Green is because Danny would have a stretch where he'd be making good plays, then he'd make a mistake and get pulled. Then his backup (Neal, Beli, whomever) would come in and up, and Pop would sit back like "Yep, I fixed that problem". Bertans, simply put, isn't that good, and he hasn't been that good when he's gotten the hook. The team has options for shooters and options for forwards now where they don't have to give Bertans a bunch of run hoping that he comes around. He doesn't realistically affect their ceiling if he can't at least box out.

[TD 21]

Bertans needs to play like an adult, not a kid. I agree he's not actually incapable of being a good defender (like Forbes, Davis actually had really good analytics last year), which is why I don't buy this idea that Bertans is playing out of position. His struggles this year are definitely and effort/confidence thing. The question really is what's the best path the team can take going forward. Bertans is a very good shooter, but the team isn't really hurting for shooting anymore, especially on the perimeter. Davis needs to add more as a PF, because that's a spot where he could really get minutes this year.

Could Pop giving Bertans a longer leash help? Maybe, but it should be noted that Davis wasn't benched after just one mistake last game. He was benched after several. The reason why Pop's hook was annoying with Green is because Danny would have a stretch where he'd be making good plays, then he'd make a mistake and get pulled. Then his backup (Neal, Beli, whomever) would come in and up, and Pop would sit back like "Yep, I fixed that problem". Bertans, simply put, isn't that good, and he hasn't been that good when he's gotten the hook. The team has options for shooters and options for forwards now where they don't have to give Bertans a bunch of run hoping that he comes around. He doesn't realistically affect their ceiling if he can't at least box out.

They don't have many options at forward, especially with the 3 back court injuries limiting the amount they can play 3 guard/wing lineups. Sure, they'll fake it (if Poeltl continues to generally start) for spot minutes with Aldridge masquerading as one, but in matchups where they need multiple forwards together for significant minutes, Bertans has to play.

Even if they wanted him to, Gay's days as even a 30 mpg player are more than likely finished and Cunningham is too limited to average something like 25 mpg.

They also need as much volume 3-point shooting as possible. Being 1st in percentage doesn't mean much if you're 30th in attempts.

Only an archaic organization wouldn't see the value in a mobile 6'10'' guy, who can shoot off movement, pass off the dribble and protect the rim.

[DAF86]

Bertans needs to play like an adult, not a kid. I agree he's not actually incapable of being a good defender (like Forbes, Davis actually had really good analytics last year), which is why I don't buy this idea that Bertans is playing out of position. His struggles this year are definitely and effort/confidence thing. The question really is what's the best path the team can take going forward. Bertans is a very good shooter, but the team isn't really hurting for shooting anymore, especially on the perimeter. Davis needs to add more as a PF, because that's a spot where he could really get minutes this year.

Could Pop giving Bertans a longer leash help? Maybe, but it should be noted that Davis wasn't benched after just one mistake last game. He was benched after several. The reason why Pop's hook was annoying with Green is because Danny would have a stretch where he'd be making good plays, then he'd make a mistake and get pulled. Then his backup (Neal, Beli, whomever) would come in and up, and Pop would sit back like "Yep, I fixed that problem". Bertans, simply put, isn't that good, and he hasn't been that good when he's gotten the hook. The team has options for shooters and options for forwards now where they don't have to give Bertans a bunch of run hoping that he comes around. He doesn't realistically affect their ceiling if he can't at least box out.

And yet with all those suppossed "several mistakes" Bertans still rates as an average defender and a net positive player all around. So he's either not making as many mistakes as he's assumed to make, or his contributions are so important that his mistakes aren't that relevant and should be overlooked a bit in favour of having him on the court more.

I'm just baffled at what is that Pop sees that he has no problem giving a limited guy like Forbes 35 minutes per game despite awful metrics in both offense and defense (untill this season, where he's being a plus on O. Not as much as Bertans though) but keeps treating a clearly more influential player like Bertans like a ing scrub.