Mueller had the goods on Trump collusion

**Nbadan** · 10-31-2018

Bombs new tapes show Trump aide Roger Stone claiming to be “in touch” with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange and revealing Wikileaks’ plans to release hacked emails ahead of the 2016 Presidential election. Mueller is reportedly laser-focused on Stone’s links to Wikileaks and is interviewing people about the calls. Shelby Holliday, who broke the Roger Stone story for “The Wall Street Journal” joins Ari Melber.

I seriously think that Mueller is gonna make his findings and evidence so conclusively overwhelming that Congress and the Senate will be forced to act.

I wonder what Trump's alt-right buddies are gonna do when the report comes out....

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

How is canoodling with wikileaks then lying about it on TV any kind of crime?

Consider: the MSM reported the leaks, the leaks were of obvious public interest, and HRC never challenged the veracity of the leaks. The press would have been duty bound to report the leaks no matter the source. I'm not sure why it makes any difference whether wikileaks got the information from a Russian cutout (Guccifer 2.0) or not. Even if Roger Stone coordinated the leaks with Trump campaign officials, how can that be meaningfully distinguished from garden variety oppo research?

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

if Stone lied to investigators, that's one thing.

if the leaks were part of some kind of as yet undisclosed quid pro quo involving agents of a foreign government that would be another, but I heard nothing like that in the clip.

**Nbadan** · 10-31-2018

Mueller seems centered on the stolen emails...

Last month, Mueller indicted 12 Russian intelligence agents for hacking emails from the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Clinton’s campaign. The indictment seems to describe Stone, though he is not named, as an American who communicated with the Russian hackers about the stolen emails. The indictment says that “a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump” exchanged messages with “Guccifer 2.0,” which prosecutors believe was a front for Russian military intelligence. Stone has acknowledged contacts with Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks, which is believed to have helped disseminate emails stolen by the Russians.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nge-wikileaks/

**Nbadan** · 10-31-2018

What did Trump know and how did he know it?

The line of questioning suggests the special counsel, who is tasked with examining whether there was collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia during the 2016 election, is looking into possible coordination between WikiLeaks and Trump associates in disseminating the emails, which U.S. intelligence officials say were stolen by Russia.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...emails-n851941

**Nbadan** · 10-31-2018

There is, of course, also the small matter of obstruction of justice..

A huge clue about Mueller's endgame

https://www.axios.com/robert-mueller...1244fb9e3.html

Axios has learned that special counsel Robert Mueller has focused on events since the election — not during the campaign — in his conversations with President Trump's lawyers. The top two topics that Mueller has expressed interest in so far: the firings of FBI director James Comey and national security adviser Michael Flynn.

Why it matters: That suggests a focus on obstruction of justice while in office, rather than collusion with Russia during the campaign. But both sagas are interwoven with Russia: Trump himself has linked Comey's firing to Russia, and Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about conversations with the Russian ambassador during the transition.

The Mueller and Trump teams are hoping to work out the specifics of a presidential interview within the next few weeks.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Absent more information, it's hard to see how Stone coordinating with Russian cutouts and DJT campaign officials to release bona fide information that was in the public interest to be disclosed, amounts to a crime, unless Trump (or his staff) knew the information came from foreign agents, or there was a tangible transaction.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by Nbadan

There is, of course, also the small matter of obstruction of justice..

A huge clue about Mueller's endgame

https://www.axios.com/robert-mueller...1244fb9e3.html

Stone lying to Mueller, as I mentioned previously.

**Nbadan** · 10-31-2018

Mueller could also go after Trump Jr...Trump Jr. went to the Trump Tower after he was told that a russian lawyer was offering him dirt on Hillary Clinton and that this was part of the ongoing efforts of the russian government to help him. (That was after the US intelligence-community had briefed both campaigns that Russia would try to meddle with the election and that the campaigns should report anything su ious to authorities.) That is attempted collusion. He then crafted a false statement about what happened. That is obstruction of justice. Then he lied to Congress about what happened. That is legally equivalent to lying under oath.

Trump Jr. had Twitter-DM exchanges with Wikileaks, which US intelligence has categorized as a hostile non-state intelligence-service. Though Jr. didn't really respond to the messages, if it can be proven that he used the talking-points and the information and the hacked password Wikileaks gave him, then this is treason.

**Chris** · 10-31-2018

**hater** · 10-31-2018

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by Chris

Chrisbot with absolutely nothing to say

**Spurs Homer** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by Winehole23

Absent more information, it's hard to see how Stone coordinating with Russian cutouts and DJT campaign officials to release bona fide information that was in the public interest to be disclosed, amounts to a crime, unless Trump (or his staff) knew the information came from foreign agents, or there was a tangible transaction.

You try really hard to absolve Trump of crimes, why?

Stone conspired with a foreign gov't to defraud the USA.

Assange/Wiki/Guccifer/Russia/Stone/trump & trump campaign officials

coordinated/planned/colluded/conspired - to steal do ents from an American citizen (HRC) - a Felony

Stone communicated to the Trump traitors - on the release of these stolen do ents - to influence an election
(example: when the "pussy grabbing" tape was released - wikileaks/assange/stone - conspired to release stolen material within 30 MINUTES! of the "pussy grabbing" news release)

This is called stealing an election or legally Conspiracy to Defraud the USA.

Add to this the coverup from Trump all the way down to his campaign minions who all lied about Russian contacts and you can see we have an illegitimate president. A traitor to his country. A fraud to steal the election by conspiring with a foreign gov't to attack another USA citizen in order to subvert the election of 2016.

But, (in your words) what's the big deal, amirite?

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Actually, I was trying to suss out what crimes Roger Stone may have committed, based on the disclosed information. It's not clear from what's in this thread.

You state a bunch of inferences as conclusory facts. We'll see what can be substantiated in court. Based on what I've seen in this forum, I find the case against Roger Stone -- de able though he be -- less than convincing. It may well be that prosecutors have convincing information about Stone and will pursue charges to a legal certainty. I do not assume they don't have this information;you seem to assume they do. Vive la difference.

Perhaps Stone lied to investigators; if so, that should be punished.

This particular angle looks much weaker to me than the case against Flynn as it relates to the June 9th, 2016 meeting. Not all the Russian conspiracy allegations are equally persuasive/plausible. It's odd to pretend they are.

If you read through my comments here I didn't mention Trump at all, so the gripe that I'm somehow trying to get him off the hook goes nowhere.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

further, you haven't demonstrated that anyone did anything against the law.

you just assert it by fiat, wave your hands, and call anyone who questions you a co-conspirator.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

are you a recovering Cold War anti-communist, by any chance?

**CosmicCowboy** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by Winehole23

Actually, I was trying to suss out what crimes Roger Stone may have committed, based on the disclosed information. It's not clear from what's in this thread.

You state a bunch of inferences as conclusory facts. We'll see what can be substantiated in court. Based on what I've seen in this forum, I find the case against Roger Stone -- de able though he be -- less than convincing. It may well be that prosecutors have convincing information about Stone and will pursue charges to a legal certainty. I do not assume they don't have this information;you seem to assume they do. Vive la difference.

Perhaps Stone lied to investigators; if so, that should be punished.

This particular angle looks much weaker to me than the case against Flynn as it relates to the June 9th, 2016 meeting. Not all the Russian conspiracy allegations are equally persuasive/plausible. It's odd to pretend they are.

If you read through my comments here I didn't mention Trump at all, so the gripe that I'm somehow trying to get him off the hook goes nowhere.

Especially given that Assange repeatedly said the Russians weren't the source.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Especially given that Assange repeatedly said the Russians weren't the source.

I don't know how seriously I'd take what Assange says. If Guccifer 2.0 or some other Russian cutout was involved, Assange would be legally correct to say he didn't get it from the Russians, but that would be misleading.

**boutons_deux** · 10-31-2018

whine hole has been compromised by Pootin

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

Ha

**DMX7** · 10-31-2018

Mueller is on to this and probably much more that isn't even known about in the media and therefore isn't being reported.

**Winehole23** · 10-31-2018

No doubt he does, but Spurs Homer acts like he himself is privy to the same.

**clambake** · 10-31-2018

he'll need much more than that.

oh, and winehole is not the kind of person to be compromised by anyone or anything.

**DarrinS** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by Spurs Homer

You try really hard to absolve Trump of crimes, why?

Stone conspired with a foreign gov't to defraud the USA.

Assange/Wiki/Guccifer/Russia/Stone/trump & trump campaign officials

coordinated/planned/colluded/conspired - to steal do ents from an American citizen (HRC) - a Felony

Stone communicated to the Trump traitors - on the release of these stolen do ents - to influence an election
(example: when the "pussy grabbing" tape was released - wikileaks/assange/stone - conspired to release stolen material within 30 MINUTES! of the "pussy grabbing" news release)

This is called stealing an election or legally Conspiracy to Defraud the USA.

Add to this the coverup from Trump all the way down to his campaign minions who all lied about Russian contacts and you can see we have an illegitimate president. A traitor to his country. A fraud to steal the election by conspiring with a foreign gov't to attack another USA citizen in order to subvert the election of 2016.

But, (in your words) what's the big deal, amirite?

Lol, doesn’t even know whose emails were stolen.

**Spurs Homer** · 10-31-2018

Originally Posted by DarrinS

Lol, doesn’t even know whose emails were stolen.

Ok, DNC/Podesta/Hillary related emails...
(still a Felony)

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