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Thanks, Drom John. I expect Forbes to rise throughout the season. No doubt he would have ranked a few dozen spots lower last season. He has come a long way, and he will continue to improve. I like him.
Doesn't say much. Avery Bradley is WAYYY better than Forbes. Forbes has the luxury of playing most of his minutes with Derozan and Aldridge in the starting line up.
edit: ps. thanks for searching the info though!
Last edited by SpursDynasty85; 11-09-2018 at 09:30 PM.
Thanks, Drom John. I expect Forbes to rise throughout the season. No doubt he would have ranked a few dozen spots lower last season. He has come a long way, and he will continue to improve. I like him.
What compunds the issue with Paddy is that he's been made a team leader.
I used to like Paddy when he was just one of a crew of guards with many more talented than him on the team and his energy and personality were charming. I thought his shooting made up for a lot of shortcomings in his game and when he's surrounded by better players than himself he was able to make a difference.
But he got paid and set in a role as one of the best guards in the team and that's when my stomach got upset and it's just been downhill from there with Paddy. I am afraid I am in the Manu4tres crew when it comes to Paddy.
Last edited by SAGirl; 11-09-2018 at 10:25 PM.
Thanks for the stats.
all the players on this list are better than the bryn forbes (and particularly I do not even think it's close)
Thinking Loaded Mag going to have a good game today
A lot of this seems like you're trying to make yourself be more important than you probably are. I'm not trying to offend you, but running marathons for fun isn't the same thing as being a world-class athlete for more than a decade. Regardless, all you're trying to say here is that you're exceptional. You aren't an "average, hard-working person" if you're athletically comparable to and NBA player and have a really good, impactful job. I guess you could be that guy who can regenerate body organs to ship to the poor or something, regardless, I didn't make any judgment on your work ethic. I did make a judgment on your performance. Again, it wasn't to offend you. I'm playing the odds here when I say you probably aren't making the same waves that Matt did.
Matt had a job that was very hard to get, and he was good at that job. Acting like he loafed his way into his career just makes no sense.
Last edited by Chinook; 11-10-2018 at 11:53 AM.
The Spurs overestimated the market in 2017, and they underestimated Patty's decline. I don't think anyone can reasonably argue otherwise. In today's league, $48M/4 for a sixth man isn't bad. In fact, the team just paid Manu $14 Million the year prior. Patty was actually pretty good the year he signed his contract, and PATFO clearly thought they had a bench leader they could lock in at a market-level deal for the next few years to help ease the transition from Tony and Manu to Murray and White. Them drafting two big PGs meant Patty was always going to have a spot where he could play -- provided he COULD play, which he can't now.
Anyways it turned out that 2017 was the bust to 2016's boom for FAs. Mills would have likely been looking at a three-year, $24-30-Million contract had he been allowed to test the market. It was a far sight less than what he got, but it's probably more than folks now believe he is worth. Had he been an FA a year earlier, I do believe he could have gotten $50M/4 from another club. People everywhere kept saying it was the "new NBA" to give contracts like that. Seems like PATFO bought into that hook, line and sinker.
Thinking Loaded Mag going to have a good game today
First of all, I wouldn't have brought up running marathons if someone didn't ask me if I was ever an athlete at any level. Second, even stating that I'm trying to make myself to be more important than I probably am is once again making assertions from which you have no basis. I'm in no way saying I'm exceptional. For all I know, what you do makes a lot more of an impact on people's lives than what I do but I certainly know that what I do is more important than what a professional 10th to 12th man basketball player with no cultural influence does. Nevertheless, I know I am also an average, hard-working person because I know what I do and my work has improved over the years that I get rightly compensated for. You can't possibly know whether I am or not but in my opinion, since I got to see Bonner on TV, I have the luxury of forming an opinion with merit about his work...and I saw crap play from a guy making millions all the while he was goofing off talking about sandwiches instead of actually improving his game throughout his career. To me, acting like he was good at his job makes no sense.
I don't know who you are. I don't really care, because as I said, I'm playing the odds. You may be average; you may be exceptional. But you're not both average and a harder worker whose better at his job than Bonner. That's the point. I know you saying you do important work is you trying to create a platform for credibility, but without trying to diminish whatever you might be doing, you mentioning it comes off more like you're envious than have legit beef. You're argument is akin to those people make about NBA players complaining about anything. ("He can't complain; he doesn't have to work 8-5, five days a week like a normal person.")
Bonner wasn't a great player by NBA standards, but he had a specific job that he did very well for many years. If Pop kept Matt around too long, it's probably because Bonner was a great guy in the locker room, gym and practice court, same way Forbes is. He level of strength and touch Bonner displayed throughout his career is testament to that much at least. You, despite your attempt to gain high ground over Bonner, didn't watch him prepare for games. You have no idea how hard he worked, how hard one would have to work to go from random dude in New Hampshire to having a decade-long career in the top league in the world. You can't seriously tell me Bonner was one who just got by on natural-born talent. You're hating on a guy for his hobbies, what he chose to show the public about his life outside his job. He was a fan favorite, so his hobbies were better-known than those of most NBA players, but as I said before, he wasn't alone in doing random outside his basketball career. Singling him out makes no sense.
Just that quote I bolded alone makes your argument invalid. You have no basis to think Bonner is a better worker at his job than I am. NONE. Just as I have no basis to say that I'm better at my job than any of you here who may make more or less than I do. How much someone makes isn't necessarily reflective of how hard a worker they are. Wage inequality is a thing. You say I never saw Bonner's training and workouts, well, you never did either. I saw what he did on the court and I saw no progression from his game whatsoever. But he was rewarded with contract after contract simply for being "a nice guy". Many people should have a beef about that. But don't get me wrong, I don't lose sleep at night over it but if we're talking about players here, I'm giving my opinion about this one. Kevin Martin, who you hate, at least had All-Star ability at one point in his career.
Of course I do. Bonner was in the best league in the world. He got one of the 450 top spots in the world for years. That's way above the 99th percentile. I can reasonably expect him to be above any given poster here. That doesn't mean there is 100-percent no way anyone here can't still be above him. For all I know, Cute Wizard is actually Lebron James. That's an exception that proves the rule, though. Something being falsifiable doesn't make it invalid.
This is what I'm concerned is the real issue you have. Bonner was paid so much because his skills are rare for in a field that's in high demand. It doesn't mean a person making less can't have worked harder, but it's not some illegitimate gain like you keep trying to assert. This just sounds like jealousy on your part. Matt wasn't particularly well-paid for his cohort. He was paid to be a specialist and did that job well.How much someone makes isn't necessarily reflective of how hard a worker they are. Wage inequality is a thing.
That's not the way it works. Bonner clearly had strength and skills. It's reasonable to assume, therefore, that Bonner worked to develop those skills. That's the null. The opposite is to assert that he was born with those attributes, which seems silly considering who Bonner is.You say I never saw Bonner's training and workouts, well, you never did either.
So wait, the problem now is that he never took the next step from role-player to star? We're talking about a guy who shot over 40 percent from three four six of his 10 years with SA (and 41 percent total over that decade), while carrying a defensive rating of 105 (would be the best in this rotation) and net rating of 13. That's actually crazy consistency. You don't do that without working hard.I saw what he did on the court and I saw no progression from his game whatsoever.
And for being a guy whom Pop said "gave his all every game, every practice". But nah, he obviously didn't give a about playing.But he was rewarded with contract after contract simply for being "a nice guy".
A number do. I do think most realize now that there are worse players in the NBA, hence the comments talking about preferring Matt to some Spurs players right now.Many people should have a beef about that.
What kind of bar is that? Do you hate all players who didn't have All-Star ability? Martin was finished when the Spurs signed him. It was really obvious, but Pop cut Butler and put Simmons and Anderson on the bench and took time from Green to play a guy who just didn't give a anymore and whose game was completely dependent on the refs falling for his whistle-baiting tactics. On the whole, I am indifferent to Martin, but I abhor his Spurs tenure.Kevin Martin, who you hate, at least had All-Star ability at one point in his career.
I don't understand how an organization like this could fall for it. Mills isn't exactly getting younger, has had major surgery, and was never much more than a glorified Eddie House anyway. By every measure, it seemed like a bad deal. Culture be damned, but I guess that must have always been the most important thing to this FO.
I remember bragging a bit on the Spurs in 2016 for them not signing anyone to a long-term contract. I thought they'd let Pau expire this summer and take advantage out the buyers' market that was going to be around when everyone else used their space before. Then 2017 happened, and it turns out they weren't planning on doing that at all.
To put it into perspective, had the Spurs made every other move they made other than re-signing Mills and Gasol (or , even if those guys were re-signed by expired this upcoming July), they'd have the ability to create $20 Million in cap space just by renouncing guys. That includes holds for two picks and Milutinov. It includes Forbes, Beli and Bertans, who should also be moveable if they needed to. You're talking about a team that could have legitimately brought in high-caliber player to add to their core but can't because of those deals. Would have been an amazing plan, on par with the planning it took to get Aldridge. But they apparently had other ideas.
See, that's the problem.
He's not good enough to be a sixth man, never was. Never, EVER, was he a dependable bench scorer like a Lou Williams or Eric Gordon, or even declined Manu. And he sure as wasn't making plays otherwise.
Manu's $14 million needs context, a lot of it was payback for previous authentic hometown discount. And Manu was still 10 times the player Mills ever was. And it was for a single season.
Mills never gave the Spurs a discount. That 3 year deal in 2014 was a gift contract by itself, nobody was offering him anything because nobody knew if he could ever shoot again after surgery and he damn sure wasn't an NBA player if he couldn't shoot.
To be fair Parker had an likely career ending injury, so that played into their decision to resign Mills a lot. They went out and tried to get Hill back after he had a very good season with the Jazz, but Hill wanted something like 20 million per year which was flat out crazy. So it makes sense they resigned Mills, but those 4 years really hurt and he's much worse without Manu. Manu's 14 million don't have anything to do with this though. Weather they paid him 1 million or 14 million that season didn't make a difference as they were over the cap already and it was only for 1 year.
I really think team culture was key in resigning Mills and Gasol. With Duncan gone and Parker and Ginobili's playing futures in doubt, they needed locker room guys who could guide new players forward into the Spurs way. I know the term is derided by some on this board, but it's very important to the team. So they overpaid for locker room leaders. Honestly, it may not be a horrible decision. LMA isn't that kind of guy, it seems to me. He's too quiet and self-contained. They needed the glue.
ok, ok...but its a very expansive glue...frankly actually their value is for less than the half of what they are currently paid...and imho that should have been the money offered to them. and I frankly think that there was not that a big of a market for them even at the time they have been signed...
Forbes just needs to keep grinding. Missed some makeable shots in 4th.ESPN tidbit :
Spurs: Bryn Forbes finished with 13 points. Forbes has scored double figures in nine of 11 games this season. The only other Spurs player to top that in his first three seasons was Tim Duncan, who had 10 in 1998.
GOAT 2.0 tbh
He's been killin it lately. Solid, solid play. Draining 3s at a fantastic rate, driving it in with tenacity, hustling for the ball. We might hate this guy in a game or 2, but he's had a great stretch lately.
Got to give him props, he gained a lot of muscle over the summer and is putting that new found strength to use by being physical and attacking the paint more. Really rounded out his game this year.
Brynneth deserves credit for his play. Dude absolutely stepped up into a way bigger role than any of us could have expected him to have, and he's done well within it. Shunt it off to "the system" all you want, but he's one of the few role-players to get a second contract with the team and be even better than he was during the first contract.
what I like about him is that he's a consistent shooter. A lot of times when the team needs a bucket he just goes and makes the shot. His drives are strong and his playmaking is improving right now as well. He's also on a cheap deal. Makes Mills only more expendable
What you can like about Forbes (beside the lack of size and elite athleticism) is that he continues to make progress year after year. He's like Kawhi without the natural gifts.
Forbes is also unusual as a pure shooter that he worked on becoming much stronger (its paying off) and he hasn't lost his touch. Patty when he went that route seemed to have lost accuracy. Bertans and Belinelli don't seem to be adding any weight. Murray is unable to gain weight. Verdict still out on White. So it's indeed unusual for a shooter to take the risk of building mass. The common wive's tale is that a change in body weight leads to lower accuracy.
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