Central America is Invading Mexico

[Nathan89]

Ridiculous. North Dakota is top 3, completely meaningless. IQ tests classify people in the 85-115 range as "normal", which fits the criteria of both North Dakota (103.8) and California (95.5)

Not to mention California is the current mecca of technology, and is the largest economy in the US.

Here's another nugget you probably had no idea about: The highest % of US population that was foreign born isn't even now, it was back in 1890, at almost 15% (currently at 13.5%).

Those are the people that built this country into a superpower. And yeah, we had birthright and everything. The main reason that bottomed out to 4% by 1970? Those people settled, and procreated more than the immigration influx.

California having a major tech hub stresses the iq factor even more. They have been bringing talent from all across America for decades and still have terrible iq scores. Their school test scores are also terrible. Also them being a tech hub has nothing to do with illegals.

So almost as high as the all time high with growing projections going forward.

[Nathan89]

You want to punish people for the actions of their parents. That's medieval , dude. How do you not see that?

You want to take adults into custody, someone who has gone to school here and built a life (and perhaps a family), and tell them they have to go back to the country their parents came from because they weren't citizens.

How far do you want to go back? What about people whose grandparents immigrated here? Great grandparents? How far until we get to your immigrant ancestors?

It's not punishment. All the best countries in the world do it. Birthright is illogical. And of course this wouldn't strip citizenship from people that are already citizens.

You dip s can't setup sanctuary cities and fight the deportation of illegals and claim this punishment at the same time. Of course "nobody is illegal" rhetoric is rampant so I guess you can. Everyone has a home in America. Everyone deserves healthcare, education, jobs, childcare, high minimum wage, etc. Actually we need universal basic income because of automation. Oh and everyone has a home here. The entire Dem platform is illogical because of illegals and birthright.

[Nathan89]

as many as possible up until the point nathan has to be deported

though i'm sure he'll claim to belong in the high IQ exception class anyway

It's irrelevant because I wouldn't deport Americans. I just wouldn't run as fast as I can toward making this a low iq country like the Dem party is seemingly doing. I guess government dependency is a plus for them.

[Nathan89]

The law is the law.

Calling it stupid doesn't change that.

Sure. Don't defend based on it existing for a long time. It being "custom here" is irrelevant and reeks of bull considering how much Dems hate and want to change about this country.

[Spurminator]

It's not punishment. All the best countries in the world do it. Birthright is illogical. And of course this wouldn't strip citizenship from people that are already citizens.

It is absolutely punishment to rip someone from the life they've built and send them to a country they've never known. If you found out your parents weren't actually born here, that they'd lied to you your whole life, and now the US Government was sending you to El Salvador because that's where they came from, you would just be cool with that?

And you didn't answer the question about grandparents. Conveniently.

You dip s can't setup sanctuary cities and fight the deportation of illegals and claim this punishment at the same time. Of course "nobody is illegal" rhetoric is rampant so I guess you can. Everyone has a home in America. Everyone deserves healthcare, education, jobs, childcare, high minimum wage, etc. Actually we need universal basic income because of automation. Oh and everyone has a home here. The entire Dem platform is illogical because of illegals and birthright.

That's a of a rant. You're far too young to be this bitter already. Get some sun.

[Winehole23]

Sure. Don't defend based on it existing for a long time. It being "custom here" is irrelevant and reeks of bull considering how much Dems hate and want to change about this country.

I already defended it on the basis of it having been good for the US in the past and probably just as good for the future. That it happens to be settled cons utional law is a definite bonus.

What is it you say Democrats hate and want to change about this country?

[Trill Clinton]

[Nathan89]

It is absolutely punishment to rip someone from the life they've built and send them to a country they've never known. If you found out your parents weren't actually born here, that they'd lied to you your whole life, and now the US Government was sending you to El Salvador because that's where they came from, you would just be cool with that?

And you didn't answer the question about grandparents. Conveniently.



That's a of a rant. You're far too young to be this bitter already. Get some sun.

They should be shipped out with their parents as children. It wouldn't be a punishment. They should not be crowding our schools. They should not be utilizing our taxes. They wouldn't have built a life at that point.

The rant is the reality of the Dem platform. It's completely illogical.

[Nathan89]

I already defended it on the basis of it having been good for the US in the past and probably just as good for the future. That it happens to be settled cons utional law is a definite bonus.

What is it you say Democrats hate and want to change about this country?

No, not probably just as good in the future. It's not even good in the present. People coming to a manufacturing country in the past is significantly different than coming to the current country.

[Nathan89]

Pretty sure yesteryears immigrants weren't coming for some big government welfare state to provide everything for them tbh. I think that's a big difference.

We didn't even have a minimum wage at the time of high foreign born populations. Now we have illegals that undercut that government enforced floor. Basically you can't have big government if you want to flood the country with cheap labor.

[Spurs Homer]

Pretty sure yesteryears immigrants weren't coming for some big government welfare state to provide everything for them tbh. I think that's a big difference.

We didn't even have a minimum wage at the time of high foreign born populations. Now we have illegals that undercut that government enforced floor. Basically you can't have big government if you want to flood the country with cheap labor.

You are aware that everything you have claimed against brown people, every accusation, every slur, every justification for your hate -

was also used against every other group of immigrants that came here legally and illegally, right?

We have seen this movie before it is just that right now brown people are the preferred target. Nothing you have said is unique to this argument and this is what America became. Good and bad. Native Americans are the only ones that are really here legally if you really want to be accurate & honest. You don't.

[Nathan89]

You are aware that everything you have claimed against brown people, every accusation, every slur, every justification for your hate -

was also used against every other group of immigrants that came here legally and illegally, right?

We have seen this movie before it is just that right now brown people are the preferred target. Nothing you have said is unique to this argument and this is what America became. Good and bad. Native Americans are the only ones that are really here legally if you really want to be accurate & honest. You don't.

I haven't used any slur. Also yes I'm aware that iq discussion has existed in the past. That doesn't mean it should not be a concern for the country. The iq scores of some groups have yet to converge upwards. Therefore we should be cautious.

Native Americans were also fighting for land grabs. This is the self hating nonsense that is pervasive of the young left. "We stole the land therefore we have no more right to this country than anyone else." They aren't coming here because they lack land. They are coming here because they have built inferior countries. Your nonsense perspective regarding who is legal will only lead to the destruction of that if you really want to be accurate and honest. You don't.

[Spurminator]

They should be shipped out with their parents as children. It wouldn't be a punishment. They should not be crowding our schools. They should not be utilizing our taxes. They wouldn't have built a life at that point.

"Crowding our schools"

As of 2011, at least 5,100 children currently living in foster care who are prevented from uniting with their detained or deported parents.If nothing changes, 15,000 more children may face a similar fate in the next 5 years.

https://www.raceforward.org/research...families?arc=1

20 thousand kids, based on estimates. In a country of 325 million. With 100 thousand schools.

And you're worried about this altering demographics.

[diego]

I haven't used any slur. Also yes I'm aware that iq discussion has existed in the past. That doesn't mean it should not be a concern for the country. The iq scores of some groups have yet to converge upwards. Therefore we should be cautious.

Native Americans were also fighting for land grabs. This is the self hating nonsense that is pervasive of the young left. "We stole the land therefore we have no more right to this country than anyone else." They aren't coming here because they lack land. They are coming here because they have built inferior countries. Your nonsense perspective regarding who is legal will only lead to the destruction of that if you really want to be accurate and honest. You don't.

Accurate and honest? Tell me about Guatemalan land ownership accurately and honestly, I'd love to hear what has changed in the past 100 years that I'm unaware of

[Nathan89]

"Crowding our schools"


https://www.raceforward.org/research...families?arc=1

20 thousand kids, based on estimates. In a country of 325 million. With 100 thousand schools.

And you're worried about this altering demographics.

7% of students k-12 were anchor babies in 2012.

1.4% of students were illegals.

That's 12% and 3% for California. These students require extra english classes and a great percentage of them require government lunch. California has some the most crowed classes in the country. So basically the quality of education is suffering because idiots want to support illegals. Send your paychecks to another country if you want to support them. Stop using this country as a charity.

[Winehole23]

That's not happening immigrants pay taxes and contribute in many ways to the economy in Texas.

Did you read the TTPF thing I posted upstream?

That's a conservative leaning Texas think tank, btw.

[Winehole23]

Even 12 years ago there was empirical support.

The Comptroller of Texas at the time, Carole Keeton-Strayhorn, netted out immigrants to Texas as a positive.

[Winehole23]

Criticism of the study is included at the TPPF link.

[ElNono]

California having a major tech hub stresses the iq factor even more. They have been bringing talent from all across America for decades and still have terrible iq scores. Their school test scores are also terrible. Also them being a tech hub has nothing to do with illegals.

So almost as high as the all time high with growing projections going forward.

You're the one hanging your entire argument about prognostication on IQ scores.

A "normal" IQ score is not "terrible", it's actually the average across the entire United States. Your ignorance about IQ scores, however, is duly noted.

At least if you're going to make it a central point of your argument, do the leg work of figuring out if it makes sense at all.

[ElNono]

It's not punishment. All the best countries in the world do it.

But if the US moved to a system like Italy or Spain (first world countries both), you would be ing too.

Italy grants citizenship if one of the parents, grandparents or grand-grandparents were Italian, in other words, 3 generations down. With the current amount of generational hispanics (which seem to be your biggest beef), that'll make it very easy to pass citizenship along down the chain.

Spain also grants citizenship Jus sanguinis, 2 generations down, if the parents' citizenship cannot be established or one year after living in Spain if neither parent is a national, as long as the kid was born in Spain.

And that's just two I looked up, I'm sure there's plenty more.

[Nathan89]

But if the US moved to a system like Italy or Spain (first world countries both), you would be ing too.

Italy grants citizenship if one of the parents, grandparents or grand-grandparents were Italian, in other words, 3 generations down. With the current amount of generational hispanics (which seem to be your biggest beef), that'll make it very easy to pass citizenship along down the chain.

Spain also grants citizenship Jus sanguinis, 2 generations down, if the parents' citizenship cannot be established or one year after living in Spain if neither parent is a national, as long as the kid was born in Spain.

And that's just two I looked up, I'm sure there's plenty more.

First thought is that wouldn't be too detrimental to the US. Far better than birthright. But I would not implement that system either.

[ElNono]

First thought is that wouldn't be too detrimental to the US. Far better than birthright. But I would not implement that system either.

Of course, that's because the problem you have is not with immigration per-se, it's with party politics. You fear has nothing to do with immigrants, but how they'll potentially vote should they ever become citizen, in light of how your current party labels them.

It's understandable, but completely superficial and shortsighted. Immigration will continue happening in whichever ways (legally preferably), and there won't be any IQ test involved. AFAIK, not a single nation requires IQ tests for immigration. It's the wrong barometer too. At least with legal immigration, the idea is that it fills a gap in workers demand. You don't need high IQ for every one of those jobs, what's sought after is know-how and experience.

[Nathan89]

Of course, that's because the problem you have is not with immigration per-se, it's with party politics. You fear has nothing to do with immigrants, but how they'll potentially vote should they ever become citizen, in light of how your current party labels them.

It's understandable, but completely superficial and shortsighted. Immigration will continue happening in whichever ways (legally preferably), and there won't be any IQ test involved. AFAIK, not a single nation requires IQ tests for immigration. It's the wrong barometer too. At least with legal immigration, the idea is that it fills a gap in workers demand. You don't need high IQ for every one of those jobs, what's sought after is know-how and experience.

I've made that concern clear but that's not my only concern. And that is a concern everyone would have. That was clear by the rampant racism and hysteria of Kavanaugh being put on the supreme court. So yes considering that concern anyone coming into the country should be a massive plus to it. Illegals and low skilled immigrants are not that.

[Spurminator]

7% of students k-12 were anchor babies in 2012.

1.4% of students were illegals.

That's 12% and 3% for California. These students require extra english classes and a great percentage of them require government lunch. California has some the most crowed classes in the country. So basically the quality of education is suffering because idiots want to support illegals. Send your paychecks to another country if you want to support them. Stop using this country as a charity.

Seven percent were anchor babies?? Source?

[ElNono]

I've made that concern clear but that's not my only concern. And that is a concern everyone would have. That was clear by the rampant racism and hysteria of Kavanaugh being put on the supreme court. So yes considering that concern anyone coming into the country should be a massive plus to it. Illegals and low skilled immigrants are not that.

Your concern is largely political, immigration (at least legal) is an economic decision/concern.

I would argue that what's basically wrong with your stance is that it's largely based on ignorance. You want to apply tests you're not familiar with that no other country applies (and rightly so), then when you do bring up other countries, you're not aware of their immigration laws. On top of that, you display unabashed prejudices about immigrants in general, which is itself a display of ignorance.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but more of an enticement to better inform yourself (or not, you're certainly en led to to keep politics superficial). That said, it's difficult to have a conversation with any kind of depth when people don't take the time to inform themselves.