Random Thoughts: Spurs vs. Rockets - Nov. 30, 2018

[emanueldavidginobili]

Get the kid up with the big dogs once he’s back in conditioning and find him some minutes. Mills, Forbes, Beli are NOT apart of the future there’s no point of giving those minutes to those guys if we’re not winning anything and most likely missing the playoffs. Let him make the mistakes and all that what do we have to lose? Everyone else is making mistakes and most of them are veterans. The pacers are finding a way to play TJ ING LEAF 7mpg on a playoff team come on now. Throw the kid in the fire. Lonnie Walker is getting minutes on AT LEAST 15 out of the 30 teams in the NBA right now and the spurs are a bottom 9 team record wise.

[timvp]

So many qualifiers

So many? Two. 1) Non lottery pick, 2) Team with playoff aspirations

to bail out Pop....

To bail Pop out of what? Walker's been injured. He hasn't even had the chance to do what you're already complaining about.

Off the top of my head, Collins

Which Collins? Well, guess it doesn't matter since one was a lottery pick and the other is on the Hawks.

Leaf

Leaf

He barely plays and when he does he sucks, tbh.

OG

Good example of the rare situation of a non lottery pick getting rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations

...this year pretty sure Okogie on Minny is getting steady minutes....

Probably should check again. He's been out of the lineup for a while now. Don't let the Spurs blwout fool you, tbh.



Here's a simple challenge: Since Pop is apparently so bad about playing rookies, I'd like you to name a coach who has anywhere near the track record that Pop has when it comes to playing non-lottery rookies rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations. Surely, since this is something that's necessitates whining from Spurs fans for years on end, there are coaches out there that Pop should emulate. I'll only ask for one.

Thanks in advance

[sasaint]

The Spurs should have known enough about LMA when Splitter shut him down in '14 playoffs.

The. Real. Truth.

[Mugen]

Here's a simple challenge: Since Pop is apparently so bad about playing rookies, I'd like you to name a coach who has anywhere near the track record that Pop has when it comes to playing non-lottery rookies rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations. Surely, since this is something that's necessitates whining from Spurs fans for years on end, there are coaches out there that Pop should emulate. I'll only ask for one.

Thanks in advance

So you ask for non-lottery pick rookies that get minutes, I give you 3 within the last year and then it's teams with playoffs aspirations.

Also ..."playoff aspirations" ....[looks at Spurs 2018-2019 roster that Pop and RC have assembled] ....."but it's not fair since Dejounte "The Glove" Murray" is out for the year"...

Not sure what you didn't get about my Spurs are a bottom feeder and their 1st rounder should play a ton comment. But a team doesn't get its doors blown off @ Miami, @ sac, against Orlando, @ PHX... get rocked by 30+ against teams with actual "playoff aspirations" and get to say us "Us too!"

The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench.

Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible. Hes not Bryn F'n Forbes.

I'm hoping it's only going to take you 5 or 6 more "Random Thoughts" threads until this hits home tbh

[Mugen]

My favorite part is that it's Spurfan' "whining" all the time but then, in hindsight, it always ends up being spot on 90% of the time and RC/Pop always admit to it after the fact

[SpurPadre]

So many qualifiers to bail out Pop....

Off the top of my head, Collins, Leaf and OG....this year pretty sure Okogie on Minny is getting steady minutes....

But Lonnie is so raw that there's no way he could possibly be better than the likes of Bryn, Beli, Quincy Pondexter, and other powerhouse wings on the team crofl

Simply put, this is a lottery team and first rounders (no matter if they were lottery or not) should be able to play and get steady minutes on a bottom feeding team

Lonnie can on the floor and provide better production than Bryn. Some people are in ing Bonner-type denial over that ing scrub. I don't get it.

[weebo]

So you ask for non-lottery pick rookies that get minutes, I give you 3 within the last year and then it's teams with playoffs aspirations.

Also ..."playoff aspirations" ....[looks at Spurs 2018-2019 roster that Pop and RC have assembled] ....."but it's not fair since Dejounte "The Glove" Murray" is out for the year"...

Not sure what you didn't get about my Spurs are a bottom feeder and their 1st rounder should play a ton comment. But a team doesn't get its doors blown off @ Miami, @ sac, against Orlando, @ PHX... get rocked by 30+ against teams with actual "playoff aspirations" and get to say us "Us too!"

The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench.

Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible. Hes not Bryn F'n Forbes.

I'm hoping it's only going to take you 5 or 6 more "Random Thoughts" threads until this hits home tbh

Play them and then what? Learn how to lose? Turn into the next Rudy Gay? Oh wait...

[Arcadian]

That'd be funny if Pop did get fired. Maybe RC will have an epiphany, wake up one day and think " this guy."

[SpurPadre]

That'd be funny if Pop did get fired. Maybe RC will have an epiphany, wake up one day and think " this guy."

The only way Pop gets fired is if Bob Hill wins the lottery and buys the team.

[tim_duncan_fan]

This needed to happen.

No one wants to be middling forever.

What you do is get really bad then draft well.


We just need to nail the second part of this equation.

[spurs10]

Poignant article. Yes it's nothing to take lightly lose two games by 70 points. That's absolutely a first as far as I know, so all this is not something anyone has much of a read on. I actually think we will right the ship and a few good solid wins will help morale, but the fact is we've lost several HOF's and aren't what we used to be. 21 years is a monster run. I'm certainly not enjoying the curb-stompings and hope we have a better game tomorrow because I'll be there!!

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I agree with the folks that are saying play the young guys. All our good wing defenders from last season are off the roster or injured. As soon as I seen how the off season played out as far as what players we got I knew our defense wasn’t going to be any good.

Hopefully Pop plays Walker and White to see if they can be true contributors for the future Spurs. I doubt any major player will be traded unless they ask to be moved.

[timvp]

I'm not going to even acknowledge your challenge

No worries. Didn't expect you to acknowledge it, much less offer a name

The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench.

I don't even understand what you're whining about, tbh. Here's what I said:

On paper, it's unlikely that Walker does anything for the big boys this year because he's about as raw as an NBA player can be today: he didn't go to a powerhouse high school, he went to a university not known for basketball and he wasn't even healthy all of last season.

On paper, Walker is a couple years away. But the Spurs could desperately need athleticism, fearlessness and explosiveness. Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.

I said Walker, on paper based upon the fact the he's hardly played against any type of serious compe ion, is two years away from helping on the NBA level. I went on to say that despite the fact that he's raw, Pop should play him ASAP.

You managed to take that as me saying Pop shouldn't play him for two years and then went on a tangent whine about Pop not playing young players enough. And then refused to acknowledge a challenge to name a single coach who plays young player to your liking. Impressive outrage gymnastics, tbh. Directing your whines at me even though you're agreeing with me

Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible.

Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.

Nice. So you agree. Could have saved a lot of whining by just stating that



P.S.

For those who are interested in Walker's relative inexperience, here's Walker's college coach expanding on the matter and *gasp* talking about him being two years away:

the difference is Donovan Mitc did not just go to high school. He went to prep school at (Brewster Academy), one of the premier prep schools in the country, and he played against Division I players every day. The compe ion in practice is probably better than what they get in every game. So, his preparation at (Brewster Academy) is far better than anything Lonnie would’ve ever experience before getting to the ACC. And Lonnie only played one year in the ACC whereas Donovan played two. So, in my estimation, at this point of Lonnie’s career, he’s two seasons behind where Donovan Mitc was this year as an NBA rookie. So, I wouldn’t expect Lonnie just to go in and do what Donovan did. But I would expect him in two years to be where Donovan is.

Walker is as green as a prospect can be these days. Most one-and-doners go through the basketball factories. But despite that, to repeat myself, I still think he should play for the Spurs this season and be given a chance to take on as large of a role as he can handle.

[BackHome]

He needs to play in G League first his conditioning back and at least show he is grasping team concept. Once he dominates a few games then bring him up and give him few minutes every other game. I want him to grow but I don’t want to duck up our lottery chances.

[DPG21920]

What are your thoughts on the job RC has done in the last few years, timvp?

[spurs10]

Not speaking of the job RC has done 'in the last few years,' I was really impressed with how he really tried to remedy the situation with nephew. I was of the school 'make him fulfill his contract' school and was encouraged by RC's statements at the time. I can only assume that at some point he realized it was 'over' and they did their best. RC struck me as someone who would not have made the trade unless convinced he didn't have any better solutions. That and the colossal amounts of injuries to their top draft picks, the exiting of multiple HOFers, and a team of guys who have never played together before pretty much tells the story. This is not over yet.

[MoSpur02]

Once the Lonnie plays meaningful minutes, he should start. He can't be any worse than Cunningham. Once he gets a feel for the game, he should start along with Derozan, Forbes, Gay, and Aldridge.

[timvp]

What are your thoughts on the job RC has done in the last few years, timvp?

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

[Mugen]

No worries. Didn't expect you to acknowledge it, much less offer a name

I don't even understand what you're whining about, tbh. Here's what I said:

I said Walker, on paper based upon the fact the he's hardly played against any type of serious compe ion, is two years away from helping on the NBA level. I went on to say that despite the fact that he's raw, Pop should play him ASAP.

You managed to take that as me saying Pop shouldn't play him for two years and then went on a tangent whine about Pop not playing young players enough. And then refused to acknowledge a challenge to name a single coach who plays young player to your liking. Impressive outrage gymnastics, tbh. Directing your whines at me even though you're agreeing with me



Nice. So you agree. Could have saved a lot of whining by just stating that


Walker is as green as a prospect can be these days. Most one-and-doners go through the basketball factories. But despite that, to repeat myself, I still think he should play for the Spurs this season and be given a chance to take on as large of a role as he can handle.

Actually, your original "challenge" was to name non-lottery picks getting big roles. I gave you 3-4 within the last year but then it became teams with playoff aspirations.

Glad we're on the same page about the Spurs being a bottom feeder and that Lonnie should be getting minutes on a lottery team. When Pop inevitably gives him the Tiago treatment, hoping I'm not the only who will call Pop out for it. If he treats him like rookie-year Kawhi, I'll be the first one to give the old man some kudos.

[spurs10]

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

I thought RC was going to make Kawhi fufill his contract. Which seemed like the move, then they decided differently. I guess relations got unbearable.

[DPG21920]

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

Spot on. He’s still an amazing drafter which is critical, but I am very concerned about his ability to build a modern nba team especially since free agency will be a bigger factor in the next couple years it appears with LMA/DeRozan contract nearing completion.

[timvp]

Spot on. He’s still an amazing drafter which is critical, but I am very concerned about his ability to build a modern nba team especially since free agency will be a bigger factor in the next couple years it appears with LMA/DeRozan contract nearing completion.

For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

[DPG21920]

For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

For sure - the draft is more important but free agency is becoming more critical for this team. Not surpassing the draft but important.

[TD 21]

I really don't think Aldridge's struggles are about his inability to coexist with another star, I just think he's in decline. Similar to Duncan and Gasol, he should age well, but even they had a swoon before somewhat rebounding and they got to do so in a more forgiving era for their type

For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

They weren't contenders. You'd think a Spurs fan would be able to differentiate the real from the fake.

I like how, in the midst of your lavishing praise on Buford for his recent drafting, you conveniently forgot to mention . . .

1) Jean-Charles, one of the worst draft picks in recent NBA history
2) Milutinov, an archaic archetype, who if he ever comes over is probably a deep bench caliber player
3) Murray and to a lesser extent Walker were ranked considerably higher and fell. The former because most teams had either a current or future starting PG and didn't want to work with a project, who has a difficult skillset to build around and the latter because he was red flagged as a long term medical risk.

With the dearth of young talent on this roster and lack of high picks, they couldn't afford to not take them.

[objective]

The draft is like defense:

If you don't secure the defensive rebound or get possession, you didn't do it right.

With the draft, it's good that RC and company could identify so many players and draft them, but without signing them they don't deserve full credit.

Identifying Milutinov or Hanga or Scola or Blossomgame (potentially) etc etc is great and all but they need to sign those players and get the value of the draft rights.