NBA: Jim Jackson: Larry Bird was not transformational player

[pad300]

I gotta admit, I understand what Jim Jackson is saying, although I wouldn't have used the word transformational for it. I just think he has drawn where his line is a little off. There have been a VERY few select players in the league who have been so dominant, so great, that they had opponents (including opposing teams that could beat their team), but no individual talent who could legitimately be called a rival during their prime. Micheal Jordan. Lebron James (yeah, you could argue for KD and Kawhi, but both came relatively late in his career, at 30+, and neither can actually hang when it comes to creating for their teammates as opposed to their own scoring). Even more controversially, Wilt - yeah he got beat a lot by better, more talented teams, but as an individual specimen of a player, he had no rival (IMO, of course). Larry can't make that claim because there was Magic (and vice versa). Duncan can't because of Shaq, and so forth.

[Killakobe81]

Bird: 24.3 ppg - 10 rpg - 6.3 apg - 0.8 bpg - 1.7 spg - 50 FG% - 38 3pt % - 7.2 bpm - 79.7 VORP

Magic: 19.4 ppg - 7.2 rpg - 11.2 apg - 0.2 bpg - 1.9 spg - 52 FG% - 30 3pt% - 7.2 bpm - 77.4 VORP

Most categories favour Bird. Also, if you look at defensive metrics, Bird also has Magic beat. There's just no argument to say Magic was better. They are more or less the same player with Bird having an abysmal advantage on the most important aspect in basketball: shooting.

If someone were to draft these players today, you would be a fool to take Magic over Bird.

There are plenty people smarter and more experienced in Hoops than either of us that disagree you picked some stats... I could pick others... Again just like with Pau you favor a player you like over one you don't. Yeah!!
If you were trying to prove something to me you wasted your time and most likely you didn't change anyone else's... There are people trolling, race baiting and a few who overrated Bird based on his peak... Bird is, like Tupac, Biggie great at their best but because the career was cut short overrated by some... Magic too due to HIV but he still greater than Bird, period. Saw both play plenty of times in person and on TV doubt you are old enough to do the same...

[DAF86]

There are plenty people smarter and more experienced in Hoops than either of us that disagree you picked some stats... I could pick others... Again just like with Pau you favor a player you like over one you don't. Yeah!!
If you were trying to prove something to me you wasted your time and most likely you didn't change anyone else's... There are people trolling, race baiting and a few who overrated Bird based on his peak... Bird is, like Tupac, Biggie great at their best but because the career was cut short overrated by some... Magic too due to HIV but he still greater than Bird, period. Saw both play plenty of times in person and on TV doubt you are old enough to do the same...

Well, why bring stats and facts when you can provide this type of flawless argumentation?

[resistanze]

Wow, good thing I watched the video I have no idea what the you people are arguing about

Even though I don't really agree with him (he seems to go back and forth on his criteria) he ends up landing his argument for Bird about 'superstar presence' rather than actual basketball skills. He even shoots down Kobe as being a 'transformational player' (something unheard of in sports media) so I don't know what the racism or whatever has to do with his opinion.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Sad part is that Jim Jackson isn't even the worst NBA analyst on that show. Every basketball segment they bring in Dontae whatever to just suck off LeBron. It's hilarious to watch. Also if Steph Curry and Klay Thompson can dominate games then you bet your ass that bird could. I mean Klay scored 50 points in a game where he took 11 dribbles. Oh the athleticism he showed! Seriously, besides Kawhi, who would be guarding him? He weighs 30 pounds more than Butler or George and he knows how to post up. He can shoot the 3, work the mid range and pass. He drives both left and right handed equally. He would be unstoppable offensively. He would be atrocious on defense but there aren't any 2 way stars anymore so who cares. The league has given up on defense and gone to 100% offense which was his strong suit. I feel comfortable saying he would thrive.

[Bynumite]

I've been saying this here forever, the media is always late with these takes

I won't elaborate much more, though, since the feds are on alert, disguising my IP here isn't sufficient..in regards to criticism, there are 3 pro athletes that cause White people to get DEEPLY offended: Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning and Larry Bird..I've learned my lesson in the past..

Insinuating the feds would waste time, money and manpower following your posts on spurstalk, omg i'm in tears



Good one bro. I laughed

[daslicer]

Insinuating the feds would waste time, money and manpower following your posts on spurstalk, omg i'm in tears



Good one bro. I laughed

I was about to say the same thing but you beat me to it.

[FrostKing]

Bird & Jordan > Magic & James

[Killakobe81]

at all these arguments about how much more superior athletically today’s nba players are when guys like curry and Durant are dominating the league. When Thompson is some sort of mad player and Draymond green is some lynchpin to a dynasty. , how athletic is Kawhi? Harden? Doncic? Jokic? Lillard?

The only players who are exceptionally athletic and dominating the league are Lebron, Westbrook and Davis. And westbrrom is the only one out of the three who is putting up great numbers strictly because of his athleticism. And his teams generally suck.

Durant is pretty athletic for a guy his size and with his length... You also forgot Giannis

[Killakobe81]

Wow, good thing I watched the video I have no idea what the you people are arguing about

Even though I don't really agree with him (he seems to go back and forth on his criteria) he ends up landing his argument for Bird about 'superstar presence' rather than actual basketball skills. He even shoots down Kobe as being a 'transformational player' (something unheard of in sports media) so I don't know what the racism or whatever has to do with his opinion.

Kobe wasn't either he was very skilled maybe even more than Jordan but still a copy so he is not transformational either

[Killakobe81]

Well, why bring stats and facts when you can provide this type of flawless argumentation?

Because I can point to plenty of others who spent the time and though I love to debate I realize for the most part it's wasted here... I would go bball refference point out stats etc but no one is changing their mind especially about players the have been debated for over 30 years like Bird and Magic. People have chosen a side VORP aunt changing .
Bird vs Bron or Dirk is a debate
Steph vs Isiah or Stockton etc

Id argue those but the ones the have been done ad nauseum on here like Kobe Tim or Hakeem Duncan etc are boring to me.

[Pelicans78]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent

[Killakobe81]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent

I don't get it either Doncic is dropping 19 at 19 in today's NBA prime Bird dropping at least 25

[hater]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent

Pretty much

these moda as dont realize todays game scores more points because the rules are rigged on the shooters favor

And Bird was a shooter there is no question about that.

These mother ers need to lay off the fentanyl tbqh

[SAGirl]

What a buch of stupid mother ers

Bird was a big dude and had a crazy jumpshot. Better than 95% of todays nigas

Can u imagine him in todays game where you cant even breathe on a shooter?

This mother er bird would dominate this got ass game of today

Yup. I remember seeing highlights of a game where he killed I think it was the Hawks shooting with his off hand. I’d take Bird in this era for sure. He was a skilled player.

[E20]

everyone on the bird bandwagon's argument's are filled with flaws and choose to ignore a number of other factors as to why birds skill set would not hold in today's game. also this has nothing to do with the fact taht birds white, my stance applies to almost all players in his generation

[DAF86]

Because I can point to plenty of others who spent the time and though I love to debate I realize for the most part it's wasted here... I would go bball refference point out stats etc but no one is changing their mind especially about players the have been debated for over 30 years like Bird and Magic. People have chosen a side VORP aunt changing .
Bird vs Bron or Dirk is a debate
Steph vs Isiah or Stockton etc

Id argue those but the ones the have been done ad nauseum on here like Kobe Tim or Hakeem Duncan etc are boring to me.

How can Bird and Lebron be a debate, but Bird and Magic isn't? Are you implying Magic is better than Lebron?

[hater]

Even That stupid looking stiff KIyle Korver is a good asset in todays nba

Drugs are bad people. Say no to drugs

[Killakobe81]

How can Bird and Lebron be a debate, but Bird and Magic isn't? Are you implying Magic is better than Lebron?

One they played the same position.
Two before Bron there was little debate tat Bird was the best SF.
Magic and Bird play different positions which is also why the Duncan /Kobe one was stupid...
And again it's been debated since the NCAA final and throughout the 80s its a waste of time and Magic is the correct answer... Just my opinion and of course I'm biased but I also don't care bird is great too

[Killakobe81]

And no I don't rate magic over Bron as an overall player

[DAF86]

One they played the same position.
Two before Bron there was little debate tat Bird was the best SF.
Magic and Bird play different positions which is also why the Duncan /Kobe one was stupid...
And again it's been debated since the NCAA final and throughout the 80s its a waste of time and Magic is the correct answer... Just my opinion and of course I'm biased but I also don't care bird is great too

As you said, it's your opinion and you are biased. My non biased opinion is that Bird is better.

[Killakobe81]

As you said, it's your opinion and you are biased. My non biased opinion is that Bird is better.

You don't have an unbiased opinion but you en led anyway we both agree Bird is great and can play today let's move on...

[DAF86]

You don't have an unbiased opinion but you en led anyway we both agree Bird is great and can play today let's move on...

Why not? I don't give a about either Bird or Magic. I feel exactly the same about both those dudes.

[Killakobe81]

Why not? I don't give a about either Bird or Magic. I feel exactly the same about both those dudes.

I don't believe in unbiased unless you are just looking at data with no preconceived notions or any opinion on the subject matter. You said bird was better and sought the data to back that. I call bull if you say you had no opinion before you did so... You are human... If you had never seen either play and just looked at the data or studied film and then made a conclusion that would be unbiased... But I can tell you value shooting so how can your opinion be unbiased? You like what you like you are not a computer

[DAF86]

I don't believe in unbiased unless you are just looking at data with no preconceived notions or any opinion on the subject matter. You said bird was better and sought the data to back that. I call bull if you say you had no opinion before you did so... You are human... If you had never seen either play and just looked at the data or studied film and then made a conclusion that would be unbiased... But I can tell you value shooting so how can your opinion be unbiased? You like what you like you are not a computer

How can you not value shooting when analyzing basketball?

Besides, it's not like Bird was a one-dimensional shooter. I'm not going to argue a guy like Reggie Miller being better than Magic, just because Reggie can shoot. That would be re ed.

My argument is that both Magic and Bird could do it all: playmake, pass, rebound, etc. The difference is that, in top of that, Bird was an elite shooter and the better defender.

Seriously, I would like to hear your reasoning behind thinking Magic was better, because untill now you haven't said . You just mentioned all-time lists and said "Magic is better. Period". You didn't provide a single argument. What did Magic do so much better than Bird that, in your opinion, made him the better player without a doubt?