Aldridge and DeRozan's impact

[DAF86]

Right now, DeRozan and Aldridge have the 2nd and 3rd worst marks in terms of on/off numbers in the entire team with -14.2 and -13.6 respectively, behind only everyone's favourite player: Dante Cunningham at -14.7.

That's by far the worst mark of any set of "star players" in any team. Go look at the numbers of the stars of any sub performing team and you would see this is true. Just as an example: KAT and Wiggings, even with how much these two get scoffed for being inefficient and with how much the Wolves suck, still manage to post positive impact numbers. Carmelo Anthony, of all people, still had a slightly lesser worse on/off metric than DeRozan and Aldridge when he got cut by the Rockets.

This obviously doesn't mean DeRozan and Aldridge are the 2nd and 3rd worst players in the team or that they are worse players than Carmelo Anthony, of course. But it does mean that they don't need to hog as much game as they are doing right now for the Spurs to win.

In my ideal World they would get traded for more efficient players but as I know that won't happen my second best scenario is that they stop having such prominent roles to allow for the rest of the players in the roster (mainly Bertans, Poeltl and White) to grow.

Before the recent streak of blowout games, DeRozan and Aldridge were both among the leaders in terms of minutes played per game and usage, and numbers suggest that there's really no reason for that.

At this point of the season one can honestly argue that the Spurs would be better off with Poeltl out there instead of Aldridge, so cutting LA's minutes to give Jakob more burn is one of the most obvious adjustments to make. Pop has hinted recently to some of that but I would like to see it even more marked. My dream scenario would be giving 24 minutes to each, but I would be fine with 28 for Aldridge and 20 for Poeltl so that the big cry baby doesn't completely check out.

DeRozan is a little different, I can live with him playing around 32 minutes per game as long as he is playing more as a distributor and doesn't try to force his own inefficient midrange jumpers while the rest of the folks just watch.

[sasaint]

Right now, DeRozan and Aldridge have the 2nd and 3rd worst marks in terms of on/off numbers in the entire team with -14.2 and -13.6 respectively, behind only everyone's favourite player: Dante Cunningham at -14.7.

That's by far the worst mark of any set of "star players" in any team. Go look at the numbers of the stars of any sub performing team and you would see this is true. Just as an example: KAT and Wiggings, even with how much these two get scoffed for being inefficient and with how much the Wolves suck, still manage to post positive impact numbers. Carmelo Anthony, of all people, still had a slightly lesser worse on/off metric than DeRozan and Aldridge when he got cut by the Rockets.

This obviously doesn't mean DeRozan and Aldridge are the 2nd and 3rd worst players in the team or that they are worse players than Carmelo Anthony, of course. But it does mean that they don't need to hog as much game as they are doing right now for the Spurs to win.

In my ideal World they would get traded for more efficient players but as I know that won't happen my second best scenario is that they stop having such prominent roles to allow for the rest of the players in the roster (mainly Bertans, Poeltl and White) to grow.

Before the recent streak of blowout games, DeRozan and Aldridge were both among the leaders in terms of minutes played per game and usage, and numbers suggest that there's really no reason for that.

At this point of the season one can honestly argue that the Spurs would be better off with Poeltl out there instead of Aldridge, so cutting LA's minutes to give Jakob more burn is one of the most obvious adjustments to make. Pop has hinted recently to some of that but I would like to see it even more marked. My dream scenario would be giving 24 minutes to each, but I would be fine with 28 for Aldridge and 20 for Poeltl so that the big cry baby doesn't completely check out.

DeRozan is a little different, I can live with him playing around 32 minutes per game as long as he is playing more as a distributor and doesn't try to force his own inefficient midrange jumpers while the rest of the folks just watch.

You point out two of the compelling reasons for the team to have replaced PATFO at last season's end. Pop will never move LMA or DeMar. They are the two "biggest" acquisitions of his tenure as head coach.

[RC_Drunkford]

so you basically think the Spurs would be more efficient if they start Bertans/Poeltl instead of DeRozan/Aldridge?

I highly doubt that they would produce the same numbers playing against starters instead of going against bench line ups. You also have to factor in that teams game plan against LA/DeRozan which they would also do against Poeltl/Bertans. That means their efficiency would rather decrease, especially in the playoffs. Rudy Gay would also be less effective because the opponent usually puts their best wing defender on DeRozan. Very weak take if you ask me, especially when you base it off of +/-

[DAF86]

so you basically think the Spurs would be more efficient if they start Bertans/Poeltl instead of DeRozan/Aldridge?

Emmh, no. From what part of what I said, did you get that?

I highly doubt that they would produce the same numbers playing against starters instead of going against bench line ups. You also have to factor in that teams game plan against LA/DeRozan which they would also do against Poeltl/Bertans. That means their efficiency would rather decrease, especially in the playoffs. Rudy Gay would also be less effective because the opponent usually puts their best wing defender on DeRozan. Very weak take if you ask me, especially when you base it off of +/-

Again, I never propossed for Bertans and Poeltl to start over DeRozan and Aldridge.

Of course nobody on the roster can play the role of go to guys as DeRozan and Aldridge, and I'm not asking anyone to do it. I'm just saying that the team would be better off playing a more team oriented brand of basketball instead of having our two stars hog so much usage.

I'm saying, keep the 2 as the focal points of the offense, because nobody else on the roster can fulfill those roles, but don't over do it, because there's no need for that.

[DAF86]

But what I'm really saying is that I would rather trade them.

[RC_Drunkford]

of course you also don't factor in that during the stretch where the Spurs have turned the corner (the Lakers home game) :

Aldridge is a +7.3 scoring 19.6 points on 57% shooting in only 27.5 minutes.

DeRozan is a +5.5 scoring 19.9 points on 47.3% shooting in 32.9 minutes with a 7.2/1.6 Assist/Turnover ratio


I don't see a problem with those numbers, they are actually quite efficient. It's just that everybody on the team has a crazy net rating over that stretch and you basically picked the 2 players with the highest +/-
By the way do you know why their +/- is so bad looking at the whole season? Because they mostly played in line ups WITH Dante Cunningham

[bklynspursfan]

But what I'm really saying is that I would rather trade them.

DeRozan won the team several games and has been great at setting up/spoon feeding guys some great looks. He's in a bit of a funk lately, but the guy was having a very efficient start to the season. He's a guy who can get going in a hurry (as we saw late last night and in many other games) get to the line a bunch, + is essentially a 6'7 PG. Lord knows we need a guy like that.

I can't say with any certainty, but it *so* he's struggled a bit more with the emphasis to get Aldridge his touches early. They've gotta figure out a balance between the 2. And it's nothing like nephew/Aldridge, cause DeMar can run a simple pick and pop easily. They just need to find that balance

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm saying, keep the 2 as the focal points of the offense, because nobody else on the roster can fulfill those roles, but don't over do it, because there's no need for that.

Well is that not rather on the coach then on the players? Besides that DeRozan is the main player who frees the other guys up with his drives so the ball movement can start

But what I'm really saying is that I would rather trade them.

Trade them for who?

[DAF86]

of course you also don't factor in that during the stretch where the Spurs have turned the corner (the Lakers home game) :

Aldridge is a +7.3 scoring 19.6 points on 57% shooting in only 27.5 minutes.

DeRozan is a +5.5 scoring 19.9 points on 47.3% shooting in 32.9 minutes with a 7.2/1.6 Assist/Turnover ratio


I don't see a problem with those numbers, they are actually quite efficient. It's just that everybody on the team has a crazy net rating over that stretch and you basically picked the 2 players with the highest +/-
By the way do you know why their +/- is so bad looking at the whole season? Because they mostly played in line ups WITH Dante Cunningham

Well look at that, Aldridge playing around 28 minutes and DeRozan playing 32 like I said they should.

Also, over that span they still have some of the worst (or less better ) +/- metrics of the team.

[Play Boban]

Aldridge and DeRozan would’ve been superstars 15 years ago back when there was basketball, but they are liabilities in today’s NBA where there’s no basketball anymore.

[phxspurfan]

THey aren’t bad players, just bad together. Like I said weeks ago, start LMA and bring DeMar off the bench

[DAF86]

Trade them for who?

I really think a Beal and Porter trade would make the team better.

White
Beal
Porter
Gay
Poeltl

Mills
Forbes
Belinelli
Bertans
Gasol

-I think Beal could do the same job DeRozan is doing now, maybe even better since he can hit the three.

-Also White would get more playmaking opportunities, which would help him finally make the complete transition to the NBA.

-We would finally get that 3 and D guy we so desperately need.

-Gay would be more rested since he wouldn't need to have the tougher cover everynight.

-And we would only benefit from giving Poeltl more minutes.

-And then we would have the 3pt squad.

[Play Boban]

A wing who can’t shoot in today’s NBA is a liability. Period!

[RC_Drunkford]

Well look at that, Aldridge playing around 28 minutes and DeRozan playing 32 like I said they should. :hay

Also, over that span they still have some of the worst (or less better ) +/- metrics of the team.

yet Aldridge scores double of the points that Bertans scores while only playing 7 minutes more and shooting 2% worse

A trade for Beal and Porter wouldn't improve the team a lot. You can't even be sure that it would improve the team at all. It also wouldn't improve the salary cap situation

[TimDunkem]

Career losers with obsolete games. No wonder this team is not even ahead of Sacramento. Those who actually understand basketball knew this would happen.

[TimDunkem]

A wing who can’t shoot in today’s NBA is a liability. Period!

[DAF86]

yet Aldridge scores double of the points that Bertans scores while only playing 7 minutes more and shooting 2% worse

So? Of course Aldridge is going to average more pts than Bertans. Aldridge is a go to guy and Bertans a role player.

A trade for Beal and Porter wouldn't improve the team a lot. You can't even be sure that it would improve the team at all. It also wouldn't improve the salary cap situation

Well of course nobody can be sure. It's just my opinion.

[KDKSpurs24]

I really think a Beal and Porter trade would make the team better.

White
Beal
Porter
Gay
Poeltl

Mills
Forbes
Belinelli
Bertans
Gasol

-I think Beal could do the same job DeRozan is doing now, maybe even better since he can hit the three.

-Also White would get more playmaking opportunities, which would help him finally make the complete transition to the NBA.

-We would finally get that 3 and D guy we so desperately need.

-Gay would be more rested since he wouldn't need to have the tougher cover everynight.

-And we would only benefit from giving Poeltl more minutes.

-And then we would have the 3pt squad.

I keep seeing you propose this trade but even tho those guys can shoot 3s they still aren’t capable of taking over a game and willing a team to victory like our current two are (no matter if they’re midrange shooters or even if they haven’t been doing that as consistently lately). In the NBA you need a player that can will a team to victory and those two guys you want in return just can’t do that. Would result in many frustrating close losses.

[HarlemHeat37]

They're both career losers with a cancerous style, but you can't just replace them with role players..even with their flaws, they're both legit go-to options and star players..this team doesn't have any other players that can create a shot outside of Rudy Gay..

With Carmelo gone, Aldridge is probably the most cancerous player in the NBA(on the court, style of play)..still, you have to live with him, he raises the team's ceiling when he's making his shots..

[DAF86]

I keep seeing you propose this trade but even tho those guys can shoot 3s they still aren’t capable of taking over a game and willing a team to victory like our current two are (no matter if they’re midrange shooters or even if they haven’t been doing that as consistently lately). In the NBA you need a player that can will a team to victory and those two guys you want in return just can’t do that. Would result in many frustrating close losses.

Bradley Beal just had a 40 pts triple double.

[SpurSpike]

When you have it out for certain players it's easy to pick a few stats to validate your opinion. Gotta look at the bigger picture.