Nikola Vucevic and Spurs linked??

[Kobe'sAchilles]

You would need a defensive stopper paired with Vuc. Maybe we have that with Poetl or maybe not. But Orlando is atrocious on defense and he is a big reason why. I think having Murray, White, and an actual defensive SF (not freaking Cunningham) would play very well with Vuc. He would also fit in our bench unit fantastically as well. But at this point in time I prefer LMA. But Vuc has a very good contract and everybody is kinda screwed cap wise so I think we could re-sign him on a good deal. I don't know what the heck we would have to trade to get him though. Mills, Mulintov and 2 first round picks is really the only package I would like the Spurs to give up

[Joseph Kony]

He has pretty similar career stats to brook lopez.

i'm not saying i wouldnt trade LMA for him though simply because he's younger, but this team has nice chemistry going, i see no reason to mess that up

[gospursgojas]

Lol is this thread really arguing that Vucevic is even on same planet as LMA?

ST is drunks

[Ignazzz]

LMA vs VUC???

I like Vuc as European talent for years but LMA is much better.
We can't compare LMA's stats in team oriented Spurs (with DDR on court) with Vuc's stats in Orlando Magic easy goin team.

This pure comparison is really bad.

Only pros: AGE and SALARY

Pop wants wins. Not this way Guys ;-)
If You wanted better "SALARY and AGE" You should focus on draft picks (not player like VUC without any picks).
It doesn't make sense.

[Chinook]

Posters who just look at stats won't see what makes LMA and Vuc different. Nikola is essentially the refined version of "Softridge": He takes a lot of jumpers and is all-around a finesse big. If "Softridge" were what the Spurs wanted or needed, then trading for Vuc could make sense. He's smart, skilled and agile, and he has the touch and range to make a jump-shooting game work for a big. He could come in, average 20/10/4 in a DeRozan oriented team, maybe even get some All-Star consideration if he continues to streak this way.

And the team would have zero shot at a le until they completely change their core.

The Spurs don't need "Softridge", refined version or no. They need LMAlpha, the guy who can physically dominate the best centers in the league and force the small-ball teams to move away from their preferred styles of play in order to match up. Ultimately, Vuc is going to shoot the jumper. It's not a matter of motivation like it is with Aldridge. It's just his game. He doesn't back people down. Even when he plays with his back to the basket, it's more about him finding his spot than it is about him getting deeper into the paint. As a defense, you can deal with that. You can switch on him, you can play guys like Draymond and Siakam on him. It's not going to make a difference. because Vuc is going for that jumper regardless. When Aldridge goes to the basket, even most centers aren't doing anything to stop him. Look at how many fouls Aldridge draws compared to Vuc. It's obvious which one is harder to guard, which one affects the opposing D more, regardless of what the numbers say.

Aldridge-ball is winning ball. It's amazing that we still keep having this debate after a year and change of seeing it happen. Leave bull like advanced stats for fantasy leagues and 2K. You don't win games by having the best PER or RPM. You win them by scoring more points than your opponents within the constraints of each game. The Spurs only path to a le, Murray or no, DeRozan or no, trade or no, is having Aldridge be the best player on the floor for 4/7 games in four series while the rest of the roster does enough to make that work. Unless the Spurs somehow acquire another franchise player, that's the path they have to protect. Guys like Vuc and Capela just won't get it done, even if they don't have games where they're "soft".

[R. DeMurre]

[QUOTE=superbigtime;9655178]

Some people watch stats. Some watch players.

I watch both. According to advanced stats, Orlando is a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team when he's not playing.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vucevic plays in the East. He plays scrubs most of the time while LA plays in the West where 14 out of 15 teams are playoff teams

[FutureMan]

[QUOTE=R. DeMurre;9655821]

I watch both. According to advanced stats, Orlando is a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team when he's not playing.

And yet they haven’t won more than 40 games since 2011. Since Dwight Howard.
People talk about how “Aldridge ball” isn’t winning ball. Good lord look at “Vucevic ball”

I’ve watched him his entire career and always wanted him as a role player for the Spurs. After all a star on a magic team will be at best a third/fourth best option on the Spurs.

[DAF86]

Posters who just look at stats won't see what makes LMA and Vuc different. Nikola is essentially the refined version of "Softridge": He takes a lot of jumpers and is all-around a finesse big. If "Softridge" were what the Spurs wanted or needed, then trading for Vuc could make sense. He's smart, skilled and agile, and he has the touch and range to make a jump-shooting game work for a big. He could come in, average 20/10/4 in a DeRozan oriented team, maybe even get some All-Star consideration if he continues to streak this way.

And the team would have zero shot at a le until they completely change their core.

The Spurs don't need "Softridge", refined version or no. They need LMAlpha, the guy who can physically dominate the best centers in the league and force the small-ball teams to move away from their preferred styles of play in order to match up. Ultimately, Vuc is going to shoot the jumper. It's not a matter of motivation like it is with Aldridge. It's just his game. He doesn't back people down. Even when he plays with his back to the basket, it's more about him finding his spot than it is about him getting deeper into the paint. As a defense, you can deal with that. You can switch on him, you can play guys like Draymond and Siakam on him. It's not going to make a difference. because Vuc is going for that jumper regardless. When Aldridge goes to the basket, even most centers aren't doing anything to stop him. Look at how many fouls Aldridge draws compared to Vuc. It's obvious which one is harder to guard, which one affects the opposing D more, regardless of what the numbers say.

Aldridge-ball is winning ball. It's amazing that we still keep having this debate after a year and change of seeing it happen. Leave bull like advanced stats for fantasy leagues and 2K. You don't win games by having the best PER or RPM. You win them by scoring more points than your opponents within the constraints of each game. The Spurs only path to a le, Murray or no, DeRozan or no, trade or no, is having Aldridge be the best player on the floor for 4/7 games in four series while the rest of the roster does enough to make that work. Unless the Spurs somehow acquire another franchise player, that's the path they have to protect. Guys like Vuc and Capela just won't get it done, even if they don't have games where they're "soft".

Such a huge steamy pile of bull .

It is so obvious that you haven't watched even 5 minutes of Vucevic

Don't you feel even a little bit of remorse when spitting so much bull out of your ass? Didn't even occur to you that someone that has indeed watched a couple of Vucevic games would come and correct you?

You didn't even bother to watch a scouting report or even just some random highlights to see if the lies you planned to say could be defended.

Here you go son:




Vucevic is better than Aldridge at virtually everything: shooting, passing, rebounding, defense, size, you name it. The only reason Aldridge has more recognition is because he has had the chance of playing on better teams and he has a chucker menatlity which results on bigger scoring averages, that's it.

This Vucevic-Aldridge argument reminds me of the early arguments I would have here back in 2008/9 where folks would be: "crofl, how can you compare these two players? scoring averages, blah blah blah, alpha mentality, blah blah blah, will power blah blah blah".

[RC_Drunkford]

you're clearly one of the dumbest posters on this forum. Not even Magic fans believe this you tryin to come up with

[Chinook]

Such a huge steamy pile of bull .

It is so obvious that you haven't watched even 5 minutes of Vucevic

Don't you feel even a little bit of remorse when spitting so much bull out of your ass? Didn't even occur to you that someone that has indeed watched a couple of Vucevic games would come and correct you?

You didn't even bother to watch a scouting report or even just some random highlights to see if the lies you planned to say could be defended.

Here you go son:




Vucevic is better than Aldridge at virtually everything: shooting, passing, rebounding, defense, size, you name it. The only reason Aldridge has more recognition is because he has had the chance of playing on better teams and he has a chucker menatlity which results on bigger scoring averages, that's it.

This Vucevic-Aldridge argument reminds me of the early arguments I would have here back in 2008/9 where folks would be: "crofl, how can you compare these two players? scoring averages, blah blah blah, alpha mentality, blah blah blah, will power blah blah blah".

*Says "You haven't watched Vuc if you think he's not a back-to-the-basket player."

* Posts videos of him taking jumpers and facing up.

, even when he's posting up, he isn't even getting closer to the basket. Most guys are holding their ground, and he's just moving in an arc and tossing in hooks from outside the restricted area.

When you say something like "Vuc is better at everything" when the other guy is a multi-time All-NBAer, you don't really have credibility. Dude might be better for what you want, but he certainly isn't better at everything.

You're just coming off as worse and worse. You started off with the misguided but still understandable notion that Aldridge was good at things that aren't that important to winning in the modern era, and you've gotten to a point where you think lottery bigs do literally everything better. This during a stretch where Aldridge carried a team to the playoffs and triggered this resurgence this year. Making that "Aldridge-ball" thread has been the worst thing you've done for your ST career, not because it's a bad take (we've all had those), but because you've desperately doubled-down on it even when it's been obviously wrong while being unable to let even a single person say that without posting a flimsy rebuttal.

Just let it go, man. LMA is better than scrub bigs. Posting up can still win a lot of games if it's supported with the right personnel. It's just the way it is.

[DAF86]

*Says "You haven't watched Vuc if you think he's not a back-to-the-basket player."

* Posts videos of him taking jumpers and facing up.

, even when he's posting up, he isn't even getting closer to the basket. Most guys are holding their ground, and he's just moving in an arc and tossing in hooks from outside the restricted area.

When you say something like "Vuc is better at everything" when the other guy is a multi-time All-NBAer, you don't really have credibility. Dude might be better for what you want, but he certainly isn't better at everything.

You're just coming off as worse and worse. You started off with the misguided but still understandable notion that Aldridge was good at things that aren't that important to winning in the modern era, and you've gotten to a point where you think lottery bigs do literally everything better. This during a stretch where Aldridge carried a team to the playoffs and triggered this resurgence this year. Making that "Aldridge-ball" thread has been the worst thing you've done for your ST career, not because it's a bad take (we've all had those), but because you've desperately doubled-down on it even when it's been obviously wrong while being unable to let even a single person say that without posting a flimsy rebuttal.

Just let it go, man. LMA is better than scrub bigs. Posting up can still win a lot of games if it's supported with the right personnel. It's just the way it is.

Dude, did you even watch the videos? How can one watch that and say "he's not even posting up"? If he doesn't post up, then Aldridge doesn't post up either. In those videos, Vucevic is doing all the things Aldridge does when he plays well, run the court to establish good position inside, bully folks with his bigger size, make quick decisive drives and strong finishes. And he's also doing some things Aldridge can't normally do like hit threes and makes good reads and passes from the post.

And yeah, Vucevic can do pretty much everything Aldridge does at a better level.

-Shooting - Vucevic
-Rebounding - Vucevic
-Passing - Vucevic
-Defense - Vucevic
-Playing within the flow of an offense without checking out if you don't get " mah touches " - Vucevic

I seriously can't think of a single thing Aldridge does better than Vucevic.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Isn't he an UFA this summer? Why would we trade anything of value for that. Pau and scraps, sure.

[DAF86]

FWIW, Vucevic is 8th in the league with 7.4 post ups per game.

" but he doesn't post up "

[R. DeMurre]

A few things about Vucevic:

I think he's a legitimate late bloomer. He's worked on the issues he had as a younger player and has improved his all around game, especially shooting and defense. So saying he didn't lead his team to the playoffs (they were terribly constructed teams) from 2012-17 doesn't really matter in this discussion imo. His emergence as a good player in his prime only started last season.
He's never had a good team around him. After Aaron Gordon & Vucevic, the most minutes in Orlando go to Evan Fournier, DJ Augustine, Terrence Ross, Jonathan Issac, Jonathan Simmons, and Jerian Grant. One advanced stat rates the Magic this year as a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team with him off. That's a pretty huge difference. Is he Kareem, David Robinson, Hakeem? No, certainly not. But to dismiss him as a bad player at this point I think is ignoring the obvious very large impact he has for his team.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...a-hipsters-mvp

[DPG21920]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.

[DAF86]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/articl...a-hipsters-mvp

From the article:

So much of his individual triumph can be attributed to the improved accuracy on that long ball—Vucevic is the only player in the NBA who ranks in the top ten for made field goals while sitting outside the top 20 for field goals attempted—but his bread and butter will always be on the block. It’s there where he’s most clearly “a nightmare to match up with.” According to Synergy Sports, only five players have logged more post-up possessions this season. Vucevic spends his time screening, rolling, then jostling for real estate in the paint. Few can force the defense to switch like him, then seal a smaller guy with his off hand as the entry pass smacks against his raised palm. His rapidity from that moment on is merciless and succinct. And when he feels like showing off, Vucevic transforms into Montenegrin McHale: his counters have counters and the way he combines brute force with nimble gentility makes defending him one-on-one a losing proposition

" b...but... but he doesn't post up "



Seriously sons, even for SpursTalk's standards I have seldom seen such a shameless disregard for true statements, tbh.

[Leetonidas]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.

This. Don't know why DAF over here acting all offended because ST doesn't agree with him. No one said he sucks, he's just never been a better player than LMA

[DAF86]

This. Don't know why DAF over here acting all offended because ST doesn't agree with him. No one said he sucks, he's just never been a better player than LMA

I love all the facts you all present to support such claim, tbh.

[Leetonidas]

I love all the facts you all present to support such claim, tbh.

Plenty of posters have posted stats already so I'm not going to bother arguing with you. Especially since you think half a year of great stats and a highlight video is some kind of great argument

[Leetonidas]

you're comparing him to LMA though. and in pretty much all categories and advanced states LMA has him beat throughout his career up to now (obviously LMA has more seasons played), except maybe OBPM and BPM and they're still fairly even. Not only that, but Vucevic has never once played 80 games in a season and has had 3 season missing 15+ games a season. he's also never been a 3pt shooter until the last season and a half now, so its not like he has been a stretch C his entire career, and while he is shooting better this year, 31% and 37% arent eye popping numbers from deep. aside from one statistical anomaly the first 35 games this year, your boy hasn't been anywhere near as good as LMA over their careers, and is another guy putting up empty stats on a team. if he can sustain it for the whole year and string together a couple years of consistent play i'd agree with you, but until that happens no way he's better in any way than LMA

Where is your rebutal to this? What advanced metrics favor Vuc over LMA aside from the first 35games of this year? LMA has him beat in personal accolades, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. But please keep telling us how Vuc is better and no one watches him but you because you watched 5 games this year

[R. DeMurre]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.

Just to be clear: I'm no Aldridge hater. I generally like the guy, even though I find his refusal to attempt threes but enthusiasm for 20'+ twos a little frustrating.

Regarding the gamble, I guess it depends on what the ultimate goal is. The Spurs are at least partially in rebuilding mode now with Murray, White, and Walker. If the goal is a championship, I don't know if starting next season with a 34 yr old Aldridge is a plan for achieving that, considering those three young players are still probably another year away... that puts them in 2020 with a 35 yr old Aldridge. If the goal is to win games and be viable, then it makes sense. If I had to bet on it, I'd say Vucevic winds up with the Lakers....

[SAGirl]

I imagine some inquiries were made to trade Pau for him with some asset attached. That's the extent of the Spurs interest is my guess.

[DAF86]

Where is your rebutal to this? What advanced metrics favor Vuc over LMA aside from the first 35games of this year? LMA has him beat in personal accolades, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. But please keep telling us how Vuc is better and no one watches him but you because you watched 5 games this year

Here are their career metrics:

Aldridge: PER: 20.7, OBPM: 0.9, DBPM: 0.5, BPM: 1.4, VORP: 26.5*

Vucevic: PER: 19.9, OBPM: -0.1, DBPM: 1.4, BPM: 1.3, VORP: 12.3*

*VORP looks so uneven because, unlike the other stats, it is an ac ulative number and Aldridge has played 5 more seasons.

So, even with Vucevic just starting to enter his prime (and never having the luxury of playing for a good team) the career metrics are almost even. It is safe to say that when both players are retired Vucevic's numbers will be better.

[DAF86]

The only good argument against Vucevic right now is that he has yet to prove if he can translate his game to a winning team, which I'm sure he will as soon as he gets out of Orlando.

The sample size argument is invalid, since he has had several good seasons already, including a virtual 20, 11, 50% season. And obviously the argument of him being a "finese guy that doesn't post up" is one of the biggest lies ever stated on ST.