Pelicans: Anthony Davis

[FrostKing]

Fake news? it happened in both 2002 and 2003..

Haha he came outta 3 year retirement. Started nearly half the games the first season

And the recent East was worse. The #8 seed Pacers in 2002 probably make the ECF during James run of success - Reggie, Jermaine O'Neil, Artest, Brad Miller

[Chris Fall]

The other area worth noting is defense, or lack thereof. It's mind-boggling that a team with Davis and Holiday can be so piss-poor on that end, and AD has to answer for that deficiency. A guy with his tools should be captaining a more dominant defensive. Some of it is coaching and schemes, obviously, but there's absolutely no excuse for this level of defensive helplessness.

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

[marinoman]

The team is much better with mirotic, they won a lot with him last year and above 500 with him this year. They have to really push for Beal and try to salvage this season

[ambchang]

Fake news? it happened in both 2002 and 2003..

Didn’t Lebron miss the playoffs in the same conference the following two years? Did the east got that much better?

[DAF86]

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

If the Spurs can have a top defensive team with a 6'4" sop re as their defensive ace. Then the Pelicans shouldn't have an excuse, tbh.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

The dude simply isn't a true number 1 option. He's like Garnett, talented but needs to be carried in the big moments. Thats why Garnett and Pierce worked so well together, pierce took all the big shots in boston. He puts up MONSTER stats and some of his stat lines make you go daaamn. But he gets pushed around in the playoffs, has no go to move when his team needs a basket, and doesn't know how to control tempo. Honestly you don't have to double team him bc he will shoot face up jumpers all day long if you give him space and that's not a winning recipe. He won't lead a team to the promise land but will be a fantastic #2 man for some team in the future. Not every great player knows how to win or lead and that's Davis. Robinson had a very Johnson and del negro as his backcourt and he still made the playoffs. His numbers today would look MONSTROUS, which is why I don't put much stock in player averages today. This era is all about offense.

[Chris Fall]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

[Robz4000]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

Their defense was bottom of the league for the first month of the season; since mid-November they've been top 10 iirc. Spurs only had a third of their roster from last year returning and were missing their current best defender the first month. They play a gimmicky defensive gameplan that will get exposed come the postseason, but regular season-wise it's been effective.

[ambchang]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

I thought he meant last year with Murray.

[TDfan2007]

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

The Pelicans have most of those things...

[TDfan2007]

Holiday isn’t that good especially offensively. His overall metrics are above average especially his inconsistent shooting and turnovers. He can’t run an offense which is why he’s been shifted to SG and his defense doesn’t translate to team defense since perimeter defense isn’t as important as interior defense.

Davis isn’t that kind of player who demands the ball consistently. He’s very good offensively and defensively but he doesn’t make others around him better. He also doesn’t have a reliable perimeter scorer, the bench is bad and Jrue Holiday should never be a team’s second best player though I think Randle and Mirotic are better overall. Also the team doesn’t have a lot of good shooters.

Pretty much this. But tbh the lack of defense has been the strangest part. They're scoring enough points

[TDfan2007]

I wasn’t suggesting post-ups don’t exist at all anymore. Only that by in large it’s not the primary set used by pretty much anyone anymore. The game is faster. More and more shots come in transition and in early (either delayed transition or pre-set) offense across the league in general. And most halfcourt sets are either iso or PNR or some kind of screen and move motion type of offense that does NOT involve low block (or midpost) post-ups. High post action is a lot more common, but to facilitate more so than to score.

Giannis gets more high post and midpost action where he turns and faces and still drives than actual low block post-ups where he’s expected to stay back to the basket and score off of actual post moves. Embiid gets more low block post-ups than Giannis, but I wouldn’t say that’s Philly’s primary offensive set most games.

Can you think of any player (big man or otherwise) in the league today who gets 30+ post touches on the low block (include midpost too) per game the way Shaq or Jordan would?

The Pelicans don't have the personnel to go into a 3 point shooting contest with other teams. They would actually be better served trying to slow the game down, but they don't. They just run up and down and don't play D. Unfortunately, most NBA teams are better than them at this tactic.

And to answer your question, no, I can't think of one, but Davis could and should be getting more mid-low post touches. Instead he's content shooting outside jumpers... he's not even a great 3 point shooter according to the percentages...

[R. DeMurre]

I think AD is experiencing the same thing Lebron did in his first seven seasons in Cleveland: his front office simply can't put a team around him, which is mystifying as I think he's the kind of player other players would want to team up with.
Holiday & Mirotic are good pieces, but after that it's guys that probably wouldn't start on any playoff team.

Davis has a higher career 3pt% than Russell Westbrook, a stat I find kind of hilarious.

[apalisoc_9]

Jrue is better than 35 year old parker and Lowry.

Its mostly poor construction. The talent is there but the personel is never suited to his ability.

I also think its partly because Bigs are much more difficult to build around than wings...since davis position is generally a role player in todays nba.

[apalisoc_9]

I think AD is experiencing the same thing Lebron did in his first seven seasons in Cleveland: his front office simply can't put a team around him, which is mystifying as I think he's the kind of player other players would want to team up with.
Holiday & Mirotic are good pieces, but after that it's guys that probably wouldn't start on any playoff team.

Davis has a higher career 3pt% than Russell Westbrook, a stat I find kind of hilarious.

Lebron made the finals.

[DAF86]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

I'm talking about the current Spurs team. Not the Dante Cunningham led one.

[Chris Fall]

I'm talking about the current Spurs team. Not the Dante Cunningham led one.

Did you really delete your other post saying you were talking about last year’s Spurs, then read Robz post and decided to make this an alternative reply? Maybe no one else saw it, so...

[DAF86]

Did you really delete your other post saying you were talking about last year’s Spurs, then read Robz post and decided to make this an alternative reply? Maybe no one else saw it, so...

You mean this post?

I thought he meant last year with Murray.

[Chris Fall]

The Pelicans have most of those things...

No.

Last season and even this year they’ve had to start 6’4 E’twaun Moore at small forward a lot because their “versatile” 6’7, 6’8 combo forwards like Hill and Cunningham and Wes Johnson and Miller suck. Last year, they played mostly with 6’1 Rondo, 6’3-ish Jrue, and 6’4 Moore as their core starting backcourt unit. No perimeter size, especially when both Jrue and Moore slide up a position each. Offers no flexibility or versatility defensively on switches. It’s pointless to have “versatile” hybrid forward defenders if they aren’t good enough to stay on the court.

A shot-blocking big man simply does not impact the game like he used to, when teams are attempting 40, 50 three point shots a game. The brick wall big man being minimized as much as he is, you cannot evaluate a team defense and put most of the defensive responsibility on him anymore. I think roster construction, versatile defenders, and scheme are more important in term success of putting together a good team defense than laying it mostly on the shoulders of your one defensive minded big man. How the do you think Slow Mo was statistically a plus defender on the Spurs? Scheme, good defensive teammates, size, length and versatility.

[Chris Fall]

You mean this post?

My mistake. Silly me. Thought you had posted that.

[FrostKing]

Lebron made the finals.

Does Davis defeat those Pistons? Probably not so Ill give James credit for that accomplishment.

[Mr. Body]

David Robinson's point guard for a long time was Vinny Del Negro. He went far deeper into the playoffs and won MVP. Anthony Davis just can't get it done, period.

[SAGirl]

Frankly one has to consider the Greek Freak being better at this point. I don't know if he is and not wanting to get into it bc I don't watch either guy on the regular. But the Greek Freak has the mean streak where he just wants to "kill you" if he can. Davis doesn't have it.

[Mr. Body]

Frankly one has to consider the Greek Freak being better at this point. I don't know if he is and not wanting to get into it bc I don't watch either guy on the regular. But the Greek Freak has the mean streak where he just wants to "kill you" if he can. Davis doesn't have it.

Watch the Pelicans when the game is on the line. Davis is just another player. He shrinks away.

[ElNono]

IMO, Unibrow has the LMA syndrome: as long as he gets his numbers and makes the all star game, he’s a happy camper. I don’t think he wants to get into the whole sleflessness and leadership thing to get to the next level. I actually think its very likely he’ll end up going somewhere with other stars and riding a super team like LeBron and KD did.