Sad reality of the shutdown

[baseline bum]

No, it's exactly not the point. It's not going to matter "who started it" when folks are losing their homes. There should be a basic rule that people shouldn't lose their homes because of political disagreements that have nothing to do with them. Trump being the one who threw that out the window first doesn't mean that folks aren't going to be upset that the Dems left it out the window for so long.

I'm not wondering whose fault it is, so telling me it's Trump's fault is irrelevant. I'm talking about the potential erosion of trust in both sides and how that's going to affect the upcoming elections, and that's not going to be based on who technically caused this to happen.

If Trump's base loses their homes from his shutdown and don't blame him and the GOP then I don't care. They got exactly what they voted for when they threw a hand grenade into DC by electing Trump. I feel bad for the people who never voted for the piece of and are victims of his ego.

[Chinook]

you cant have one without the other imo

I really don't even know what you're saying anymore. You started off assuming I didn't know if it was Trump who caused the shutdown. I said I knew that but that that wasn't the important issue. Then you repeated that it's Trump's fault.

I know Trump caused this. I know he put a bunch of families in jeopardy for a wall he said would be paid for by another country. I know this whole fight has very little to do with actual border security. I know that. I'm saying that's going to be irrelevant to a lot of people, because the Democrats could have just given him his wall and not let it get this far. Yes, that sets a bad precedent. But that's not what's going to matter to a voter. "Precedents", "principles of the matter"; those things aren't going to pay the bills.

There's an inherent trust we're supposed to have that our government isn't this broken, that you can trust the American dollar, that working for the federal government is supposed to be a viable career. We don't have that, and it's not just a Republican issue. The "crisis" the president is facing ought to be how many federal employees don't have money, not who's coming over the border. The Democratic platform should be all about outreach and using their clout to help alleviate the strain it's putting on the affected people, not passing fake bills and blame. When people's lives are on the line, like the message we're sending to the world or who's been caught in another lie just don't matter.

[boutons_deux]

Congress could end it, primarily the Senate Repugs

" #3 Senate Republicans bolt

The House already has passed the funding bill

that the GOP-controlled Senate approved last month.

Republican senators, especially those who are up for re-election next year,

have grown increasingly anxious about the potential political costs for them back home from the extended shutdown.

They could approve the measure and send it to the White House."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nd/2565793002/

[Chinook]

If Trump's base loses their homes from his shutdown and don't blame him and the GOP then I don't care. They got exactly what they voted for when they threw a hand grenade into DC by electing Trump. I feel bad for the people who never voted for the piece of and are victims of his ego.

I think Trump's base is with him at this point. But if the Democrats put up one of their senators like Warren or Booker, they could easily get their asses handed to them in the primaries, if not the general.

[spurraider21]

I really don't even know what you're saying anymore. You started off assuming I didn't know if it was Trump who caused the shutdown. I said I knew that but that that wasn't the important issue. Then you repeated that it's Trump's fault.

I know Trump caused this. I know he put a bunch of families in jeopardy for a wall he said would be paid for by another country. I know this whole fight has very little to do with actual border security. I know that. I'm saying that's going to be irrelevant to a lot of people, because the Democrats could have just given him his wall and not let it get this far. Yes, that sets a bad precedent. But that's not what's going to matter to a voter. "Precedents", "principles of the matter"; those things aren't going to pay the bills.

There's an inherent trust we're supposed to have that our government isn't this broken, that you can trust the American dollar, that working for the federal government is supposed to be a viable career. We don't have that, and it's not just a Republican issue. The "crisis" the president is facing ought to be how many federal employees don't have money, not who's coming over the border. The Democratic platform should be all about outreach and using their clout to help alleviate the strain it's putting on the affected people, not passing fake bills and blame. When people's lives are on the line, like the message we're sending to the world or who's been caught in another lie just don't matter.

the notion that people aren't going to care who specifically is to blame, and instead will generically lose trust in "government" is one i dont buy at all.

[Winehole23]

could be the wall is the pretext and the government shutdown was the point all long.

it could be quite some time until a veto proof majority passes a CR.

[Winehole23]

with a compliant US Senate, POTUS refusing to sign any bill funding the government effectively shrinks the government. we're nowhere close to getting it small enough to drown in the bathtub, but the Grover Norquists of the world are rubbing their hands with glee, wherever they are.

[Spurminator]

No, it's exactly not the point. It's not going to matter "who started it" when folks are losing their homes. There should be a basic rule that people shouldn't lose their homes because of political disagreements that have nothing to do with them. Trump being the one who threw that out the window first doesn't mean that folks aren't going to be upset that the Dems left it out the window for so long.

I'm not wondering whose fault it is, so telling me it's Trump's fault is irrelevant. I'm talking about the potential erosion of trust in both sides and how that's going to affect the upcoming elections, and that's not going to be based on who technically caused this to happen.

There is a reason we have a Legislative Branch separate from the Executive. What you're advocating for is for the Legislature to cave to the Executive any time he stomps his feet hard enough. That completely erodes Separation of Powers and is worse for the country longterm.

[Chinook]

the notion that people aren't going to care who specifically is to blame, and instead will generically lose trust in "government" is one i dont buy at all.

If by "people" you mean "every individual", then the answer is an obvious yes. But if you don't think a real portion of the population went from thinking Democrats were the good guys to realizing that neither side is the good guys, I don't know what to tell you.

It'd be like if you and a friend were walking down the street and a guy jumps out at you and says to give him your wallet or he'll shoot your friend. The mugger is wrong. He caused the issue. It's his fault. But if you don't give the mugger the money, and your friend gets shot, he's still likely to be upset with you. You can explain all you want about how the mugger was a criminal and how it was your money and blah, blah. Your friend still might see it as you choosing the money (or the "honor" of not giving in), over him. He might even understand and agree with you, but he'll know that your friendship has its limits.

I have no idea if you're a federal employee or not, but if you're not and you start talking to some (not the ones trying to political, but just the average one), you'll start hearing a lot of "Just give him the damned wall already".

[Chinook]

There is a reason we have a Legislative Branch separate from the Executive. What you're advocating for is for the Legislature to cave to the Executive any time he stomps his feet hard enough. That completely erodes Separation of Powers and is worse for the country longterm.

Again with this need to educate me. I took government in high school too. I know how the separation of powers works. What I'm saying is that prolonged political fights hurts both sides, so constantly acting like this is only going to hurt Trump because he started it is foolish.

[boutons_deux]

"prolonged political fights hurts both sides"

clearly Congress and Trash don't think so

[Spurminator]

Republicans in Congress can end this whenever they want and preserve the separation of powers. The President does not have ultimate power over the budget, and he does not have the votes for his agenda. The shutdown is a direct result of a narcissistic temper tantrum and a nutless GOP legislature.

[Spurminator]

Again with this need to educate me. I took government in high school too. I know how the separation of powers works. What I'm saying is that prolonged political fights hurts both sides, so constantly acting like this is only going to hurt Trump because he started it is foolish.

And I'm saying caving to the President hurts both sides more.

[Blake]

Again with this need to educate me. I took government in high school too. I know how the separation of powers works. What I'm saying is that prolonged political fights hurts both sides, so constantly acting like this is only going to hurt Trump because he started it is foolish.

So what do you propose the Dems do here?

[FrostKing]

So what do you propose the Dems do here?

Should cut some deal. American citizens get the wall safety in exchange for Democrats getting precious refugees

[DMC]

If the Dems gave in right now and said it was for the good of the people that would garner them a lot of favor. If they don't, people won't excuse them either. Both sides hold the switch.

[Pavlov]

If the Dems gave in right now and said it was for the good of the people that would garner them a lot of favor. If they don't, people won't excuse them either. Both sides hold the switch.

Do you want a wall/fence running the entire length of the US-Mexico border?

[FrostKing]

If the Dems gave in right now and said it was for the good of the people that would garner them a lot of favor. If they don't, people won't excuse them either. Both sides hold the switch.

Agreed. It is already do ented that many Democrats suppprted a Wall before Trump came along. So now they seem spiteful - while Trump seems stubborn in defense of the American citizen

[DMC]

Do you want a wall/fence running the entire length of the US-Mexico border?

I would like to keep some legal entry points tbh. A wall/fence running the entire length would make legal entry difficult.

[Pavlov]

I would like to keep some legal entry points tbh. A wall/fence running the entire length would make legal entry difficult.

Keeping the current entry points, do you want a wall/fence otherwise running the entire length of the US-Mexico border?

Yes or no.

[DMC]

Keeping the current entry points, do you want a wall/fence otherwise running the entire length of the US-Mexico border?

Yes or no.

I'm not against it as long as the land owners are compensated.

[Pavlov]

I'm not against it as long as the land owners are compensated.

But do you want it?

Yes or no.

[DMC]

But do you want it?

Yes or no.

I gave my opinion already. You'll have to tweak out elsewhere

[Blake]

If the Dems gave in right now and said it was for the good of the people that would garner them a lot of favor. If they don't, people won't excuse them either. Both sides hold the switch.

Lol bull .

If the Dems give in, they'll look weak and Trump will be sitting pretty.

[Blake]

I gave my opinion already. You'll have to tweak out elsewhere

What a pussy answer