NBA Trade Deadline 2019

[Chinook]

boy you don't get to pull that old man card on me. I've been watching the Spurs since 95. it doesn't matter that Tims defense was slow. That he wasn't as mobile. The point I'm making is that Gasol has never EVER been in Duncan's league defensively. I'm not an idiot. I understood your point about mobility. But old man Duncan is better than old man Gasol on defense, so your point is beyond useless.

Yeah, no. Tim was slow to the point that it mattered. He was slow to the point that a lot of folks thought he should retire five years earlier. Your post makes you come off like you believe Tim's career was a straight line of consistent excellence. It's not true. He was way better than most fans seem to understand his first few years and had come really dark moments later on. Pop gets way underrated for how he managed to shift around the roster and scheme to compliment Tim and his changing game. Yeah, Tim's lack of mobility was in the same league as Pau's. Being hurt about that doesn't negate it. Tim is a GOAT candidate, especially defensively, but his weaknesses were very apparent.

Gasol sucks against playoff teams. That's a fact. He sucks at switching and he sucks defending the pick n roll. This whole, he would be better 10 years ago thing is a load of crap. he'd be better in 1953 too when everyone was unskilled and short. Doesn't do us any good in the present. phone booth doesn't mean crap this year son and neither does what he did last year. He's another year older and another year slower and coming off a broken foot.

There's no doubt in my mind that Tim would struggle defensively against modern offenses without the proper perimeter support. I do think he'd find a way to make the most of his limited athleticism, but I also think Pop would do everything in his power to not let that happen. Gasol's defensive numbers have always been good, and you denying that says more about what you look for when you evaluate players than anything else.

[sasaint]

Agree if we're talking about next season, I'm still thinking in this one though. I think he can help our team to grow. Next season, a decent S Johnson might be an interesting bench player for a contender.



Somehow Harden has become a decent defender. He's even good in the low post. I really hate Harden's game but can't deny his success so far, they're still winning without Paul and Capela (They've added Faried and Rivers and they're helping them to win). If they add another 3&D (Ariza, Bazemore rumors say) and recover Danuel House, they will have a better roster they had last year. Morey allows D'Antoni to run his system but knows he needs defense and rebounding so he's adding more and more personnel that can deal with the dirty work (on top of Capela).
That's what good franchises do: surround their stars with that kind of players. Ideally, you want to have all-stars that also play good defense and can rebound, but there is just a handful of that elite of the elite players. Role players can do well the dirty job whilst stars create highlights with the ball in their hands. It doesn't' work the other way.

Going back to the topic, I just found this in twitter:

Wow! Thanks! Spurs can't catch a break - and wouldn't take advantage even if they did. I think Pau was always going to remain "ours."

[Spurs fever]

Not sure if spurs will make a move or not, gotta read more info from the Klan

Is he legit? I can't find any follow up on anything he says. He just sites sources.

[ace3g]

[exstatic]

Wow! Thanks! Spurs can't catch a break - and wouldn't take advantage even if they did. I think Pau was always going to remain "ours."

As Chinook said, I think that guy is wrong about the timing of The salary penalty. He can be traded at his current salary amount up to the deadline.

[DAF86]

Yep.

Your loved on/off stat says he isn't, tbh. Or do you like that stat only when it fits your narrative?

[Chinook]

I think he could find a home if he gets bought out, so it wouldn't surprise me if he and the club are about to part ways. Pau, Pon and a first for Temple and Green isn't my favorite trade out there, but it would at least give depth at the wing and in the front court, and it'd clear future salary.

[Chinook]

Your loved on/off stat says he isn't, tbh. Or do you like that stat only when it fits your narrative?

On-off is biased at a time when the whole team was playing bad defense. Every other stat (DRtg, DBPM, DFG% and dRPM) all have Gasol as ahead.

[John B]

There were some players that seemed done but Houston took the risk and gave them cheap contracts...Eric Gordon, now Faried.

I wonder why the Spurs couldn't sign anything better than 48M-39 years old Pau.

Faried would have been nice tbh

[DAF86]

On-off is biased at a time when the whole team was playing bad defense. Every other stat (DRtg, DBPM, DFG% and dRPM) all have Gasol as ahead.

Poeltl has been by far the most impactful defensive player for the Spurs all season long. Him being able to anchor lineups consisting of Forbes, Mills and Belinelli is a big reason why we are on the right side of .500 right now.

Gasol's defense is underrated on this forum, but he's not better than Poeltl at this point. Not even close.

[sasaint]

As Chinook said, I think that guy is wrong about the timing of The salary penalty. He can be traded at his current salary amount up to the deadline.

I still think he is ours to keep.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Yeah, no. Tim was slow to the point that it mattered. He was slow to the point that a lot of folks thought he should retire five years earlier. Your post makes you come off like you believe Tim's career was a straight line of consistent excellence. It's not true. He was way better than most fans seem to understand his first few years and had come really dark moments later on. Pop gets way underrated for how he managed to shift around the roster and scheme to compliment Tim and his changing game. Yeah, Tim's lack of mobility was in the same league as Pau's. Being hurt about that doesn't negate it. Tim is a GOAT candidate, especially defensively, but his weaknesses were very apparent.



There's no doubt in my mind that Tim would struggle defensively against modern offenses without the proper perimeter support. I do think he'd find a way to make the most of his limited athleticism, but I also think Pop would do everything in his power to not let that happen. Gasol's defensive numbers have always been good, and you denying that says more about what you look for when you evaluate players than anything else.

All I said (literally) was that Gasol isn't as good of a defender as Duncan. He's not in the same ball park defensively as Duncan. At any point of his career. This is backed up by accolades and actual stats. This isn't a take on Duncan's defensive liabilities it's a take saying that Duncan was a better defender. Period. You brought up Duncan's weaknesses as some point in saying that they are the same as Gasol. But it doesn't matter if they were the same bc my point is that Duncan was a better defender than Gasol. At all times in their career. You can go into this entire pointless rant about Duncan's weaknesses and Pops greatness and Danny green and Kawhi covering up for Duncan, but it didn't change the fact that Gasol is a worse defender.

You can slice it up anyway you want it, but Poetl (for this team this year) not last year or any other year, is the better option for us going forward bc of his mobility and ability to defend the pick n roll. He does dumb things that make you scratch your head, I will give you that, but I've lost count of how many times Gasol hasn't tried in defending the pick n roll and just lets the opposing team score on him without contesting anything.

You also aren't factoring in Pau's current age, his decline in speed, and his foot injury affecting that lack of speed. He's done. It was a good career but he's finished. This year he sucks defensively

[CGD]

Wonder what the price tag is?

[Dverde]

Wonder what the price tag is?

Anyone asking for a trade from a team in first place is not over himself

[Chinook]

All I said (literally) was that Gasol isn't as good of a defender as Duncan. He's not in the same ball park defensively as Duncan. At any point of his career. This is backed up by accolades and actual stats. This isn't a take on Duncan's defensive liabilities it's a take saying that Duncan was a better defender. Period. You brought up Duncan's weaknesses as some point in saying that they are the same as Gasol. But it doesn't matter if they were the same bc my point is that Duncan was a better defender than Gasol. At all times in their career. You can go into this entire pointless rant about Duncan's weaknesses and Pops greatness and Danny green and Kawhi covering up for Duncan, but it didn't change the fact that Gasol is a worse defender.

You can slice it up anyway you want it, but Poetl (for this team this year) not last year or any other year, is the better option for us going forward bc of his mobility and ability to defend the pick n roll. He does dumb things that make you scratch your head, I will give you that, but I've lost count of how many times Gasol hasn't tried in defending the pick n roll and just lets the opposing team score on him without contesting anything.

You also aren't factoring in Pau's current age, his decline in speed, and his foot injury affecting that lack of speed. He's done. It was a good career but he's finished. This year he sucks defensively

This whole conversation started because you got offended at me bringing up Tim as a big with limited mobility who made up for it. You keep trying to act like I am going on "pointless tangents" about how Tim survived as an immobile big when him surviving is the entire point. I get it. You hate Pau and are extremely butt-hurt that I mentioned Tim in the same sentence as him. That's your right. But don't come in here talking about what the "point" is when you're the one dragging this whole thread into a side conversation.

Gasol isn't a bad defender this year. He wasn't last year. I don't think anyone on this thread wants the Spurs to keep him around next year. But he's still a good player right now, no matter how much that upsets you. Old, yes. Injured, yes. Slow, yes. Still better than Poeltl? Yes.

[Dverde]

Just imagine how many les Timmy would have won with Kobe and company.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

This whole conversation started because you got offended at me bringing up Tim as a big with limited mobility who made up for it. You keep trying to act like I am going on "pointless tangents" about how Tim survived as an immobile big when him surviving is the entire point. I get it. You hate Pau and are extremely butt-hurt that I mentioned Tim in the same sentence as him. That's your right. But don't come in here talking about what the "point" is when you're the one dragging this whole thread into a side conversation.

Gasol isn't a bad defender this year. He wasn't last year. I don't think anyone on this thread wants the Spurs to keep him around next year. But he's still a good player right now, no matter how much that upsets you. Old, yes. Injured, yes. Slow, yes. Still better than Poeltl? Yes.

True i did get upset over that. And you doubled down on it. It's like saying Shaq and Deandre Jordan are comparable bc they both averaged double digit points and rebounds. Technically true, but they shouldn't really be in the same conversation.

So Gasol isn't a bad pick n roll defender? Bc that's what I keep mentioning. Specifically his defense there. You keep mentioning the phone booth and I keep mentioning the pick n roll. I even said gasol was a better team defender but we need a more mobile big man that can stay with the guard. In the playoffs we have to face Harden, Lillard, Steph, Westbrook, CP3, Lebron, etc. I feel like Poetl is better in that regard

[Chinook]

True i did get upset over that. And you doubled down on it. It's like saying Shaq and Deandre Jordan are comparable bc they both averaged double digit points and rebounds. Technically true, but they shouldn't really be in the same conversation.

First, Pau's a hall-of-famer. He wasn't just a good player. He's right there with Tony and Manu. Tim's a level above that, but there aren't all that many bigs with better careers than Gasol's. Second, it's like comparing DAJ to Shaq by saying, "Shaq was an awful FT shooter too, but he still managed to be dominant offensive player." You don't have to be as great as someone else to share the same weaknesses.

So Gasol isn't a bad pick n roll defender? Bc that's what I keep mentioning. Specifically his defense there. You keep mentioning the phone booth and I keep mentioning the pick n roll. I even said gasol was a better team defender but we need a more mobile big man that can stay with the guard. In the playoffs we have to face Harden, Lillard, Steph, Westbrook, CP3, Lebron, etc. I feel like Poetl is better in that regard

Tim was also a bad PnR defender. You seem to think he's some unapproachable defender, but he was really bad there. That was the whole point. I'm not trying to convince you that Poeltl can't defend the PnR better than Pau. But that's only part of what it takes to be a good defender. You can game plan for a weakness like that, especially when we're talking about a bench big. Most of those teams don't have backup centers that Pop has to worry about, so it shouldn't be that hard to contain the ball-handler with a hard show and recovery.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

First, Pau's a hall-of-famer. He wasn't just a good player. He's right there with Tony and Manu. Tim's a level above that, but there aren't all that many bigs with better careers than Gasol's. Second, it's like comparing DAJ to Shaq by saying, "Shaq was an awful FT shooter too, but he still managed to be dominant offensive player." You don't have to be as great as someone else to share the same weaknesses.



Tim was also a bad PnR defender. You seem to think he's some unapproachable defender, but he was really bad there. That was the whole point. I'm not trying to convince you that Poeltl can't defend the PnR better than Pau. But that's only part of what it takes to be a good defender. You can game plan for a weakness like that, especially when we're talking about a bench big. Most of those teams don't have backup centers that Pop has to worry about, so it shouldn't be that hard to contain the ball-handler with a hard show and recovery.

Oh yeah Duncan wasn't a great pick n roll defender after like 2008. 2011 was his worst year and I thought he was done. In 2015, old man Duncan's pick n roll defense really was attacked. In the playoffs he gave up the winner to CP3 and even before that he gave up the game winner to AD that made us drop like 3 spots.
But Pop loves playing his bench unit together and I feel like Poetl anchors the bench unit better than Pau. Pau is more useful for teams with a bruiser type of player (like guarding Cousins for instance) but other teams play their stars like 40 minutes a night in the playoffs and Pop doesn't so our bench will face their starters. And their starters will be running excessive pick n rolls to attack Pau and with the lack of actual perimeter help defensively, I see Pau not fairing so well in the playoffs. I think Poetl needs to be taking his minutes and getting his mistakes out of the way on the regular season so he will be improved for the postseason. Bc the dude has his flaws for sure. But like you said, coaching can fix them

[Chinook]

Oh yeah Duncan wasn't a great pick n roll defender after like 2008. 2011 was his worst year and I thought he was done. In 2015, old man Duncan's pick n roll defense really was attacked. In the playoffs he gave up the winner to CP3 and even before that he gave up the game winner to AD that made us drop like 3 spots.
But Pop loves playing his bench unit together and I feel like Poetl anchors the bench unit better than Pau. Pau is more useful for teams with a bruiser type of player (like guarding Cousins for instance) but other teams play their stars like 40 minutes a night in the playoffs and Pop doesn't so our bench will face their starters. And their starters will be running excessive pick n rolls to attack Pau and with the lack of actual perimeter help defensively, I see Pau not fairing so well in the playoffs. I think Poetl needs to be taking his minutes and getting his mistakes out of the way on the regular season so he will be improved for the postseason. Bc the dude has his flaws for sure. But like you said, coaching can fix them

Pau's value to the bench really depends on how well the others do at moving the ball. He's a great creator, and he and Beli have really good chemistry. But there's little question in my mind that Poeltl would fit better with Manu than Gasol would/did. He's not a Chandler, DAJ level lob threat, but he's great at getting himself open inside, and he's usually a really good finisher. Pau's scoring ability is more varied, but he's way too inconsistent on that end. Pop has been running DeRozan a lot with the second unit recently. If that's something he does during the playoffs, Poeltl is going to look better. If Gasol is still on the team in a few weeks, Pop's probably going to be most inclined to play him when the team goes big, because Pau at least handles himself better in those situations than Jakob does, and the Spurs did have success against Harden a couple of years ago by forcing him to drive and having two big guys with arms up to contest. That won't be as easy to pull off now that the Rockets don't even pretend to run a traditional PF.

[BackHome]

Don’t have both of your basketball knowledge but right now in today’s NBA I’ll take Poodle over Gasol because he is more mobile and can finish as the rim.

[r0drig0lac]

Just imagine how many les Timmy would have won with Kobe and company.

Would Tim be the second option for Kobe?

[MoSpur02]

I think he could find a home if he gets bought out, so it wouldn't surprise me if he and the club are about to part ways. Pau, Pon and a first for Temple and Green isn't my favorite trade out there, but it would at least give depth at the wing and in the front court, and it'd clear future salary.

Green isn't a great player, but always kind of wished he would've stayed with the Spurs

[cjw]

Don’t have both of your basketball knowledge but right now in today’s NBA I’ll take Poodle over Gasol because he is more mobile and can finish as the rim.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Spurs are quietly testing the market for Poeltl too. Extremely unlikely they get value above where they value him given bigs aren’t valued like they used to be, but he’s about 18 months from becoming much more expensive on that second contract. His TRADE value will never be higher and he’s somewhat redundant with Gasol. Then again, if they trade a big and another goes down, they’re pretty screwed.

Do I expect a trade? No. But if some dumb team gives up a SF or a decent first (teens or low 20s), I’d consider it.

[tbdog]

The team was built pre Leonard trade. So it's unsure how the Spurs will build around the new pieces or if the new pieces can be built around. But next year Spurs will have 3 playmakers to throw at Poeltl. So his fit might be easy to deal with.