Cavs: Lebron a product of the east

[Kobe'sAchilles]

i was with you in that post until you said no one in today's league could play back then. thats just stupid. especially after all the comparisons "oh well the players back then didn't have the equipment and food that todays players have if they did they would be just as good!!!!!!!!!!!"

then you would have to account that plugging todays players back then, they grew up in the same environment and wouldn't be as easily offended by little things.

My comment had nothing to do with talent. I even said they were more skilled. I just don't think they're tough enough today. Like you said well if they grew up in that time they would be tougher. Would they? Like KD is all of a sudden going to be tough bc he was born earlier? Probably not. All these players are coddled today. They eat at 5 star restaurants and stay at 5 star hotels and live in mansions and drive sports cars. They have personal doctors and nutritionist and fly first class or private jets only. Very few handle critics well and they're always clapping back on social media at the people who do insult them.
All I'm saying is that if you put them in an environment where they eat bad food, and stay in run down motels or sleep on the team bus. Travel by bus and don't have personal doctors or people who's job it is watch over their body. Nobody sucks up to them and coddles them. They aren't paid a lot and don't live in mansions or drive sports cars. And when a person insults them, they have to take it. They have to just sit there and take the verbal assault and the racism and the fact that they can't eat in certain places or vote or get properly educated. Players are spoiled today man. You put them in a time of Jim Crow laws, lynchings, segregation, blacks being bombed in churches, real death threats, and a national media that is always killing any of them that speaks up about it while giving them zero rights. I don't think they can survive it man. Bill Russell was a tough dude. He wasn't as skilled or talented as they are today on the basketball court but again he and many other black players weren't allowed to just focus on basketball man. KD just wants to be a basketball player, that's it. He doesn't want any other problems or criticisms. He couldn't handle being in Russells shoes.

[Neo.]

My comment had nothing to do with talent. I even said they were more skilled. I just don't think they're tough enough today. Like you said well if they grew up in that time they would be tougher. Would they? Like KD is all of a sudden going to be tough bc he was born earlier? Probably not. All these players are coddled today. They eat at 5 star restaurants and stay at 5 star hotels and live in mansions and drive sports cars. They have personal doctors and nutritionist and fly first class or private jets only. Very few handle critics well and they're always clapping back on social media at the people who do insult them.
All I'm saying is that if you put them in an environment where they eat bad food, and stay in run down motels or sleep on the team bus. Travel by bus and don't have personal doctors or people who's job it is watch over their body. Nobody sucks up to them and coddles them. They aren't paid a lot and don't live in mansions or drive sports cars. And when a person insults them, they have to take it. They have to just sit there and take the verbal assault and the racism and the fact that they can't eat in certain places or vote or get properly educated. Players are spoiled today man. You put them in a time of Jim Crow laws, lynchings, segregation, blacks being bombed in churches, real death threats, and a national media that is always killing any of them that speaks up about it while giving them zero rights. I don't think they can survive it man. Bill Russell was a tough dude. He wasn't as skilled or talented as they are today on the basketball court but again he and many other black players weren't allowed to just focus on basketball man. KD just wants to be a basketball player, that's it. He doesn't want any other problems or criticisms. He couldn't handle being in Russells shoes.

tbqh youre still not getting it smh fwiw imho

[ambchang]

They couldn't even dribble a basketball with both hands

They do it all the time now. And it’s called travelling.

[Spurtacular]

Their record with would be equal to a 50 win season. Their record without him would be equal to a 27 win season. And this is the conclusion you’ve drawn?

Last I checked; 50-win teams don't win many rings.

[JoeTait75]

Are a number of LeBron's Finals berths a product of being in the East? Of course. You could obviously say that all five of his Finals losses came on teams that wouldn't have gotten out of the West, although I personally think the 2015 Cavaliers when healthy were as good as anyone in the West, including Golden State. The les he won in 2013 and 2016 came against without question the best teams in the West, and OKC probably was the best team in the West in 2012. I agree with Harlem that he'd have fewer Finals appearances had he spent his entire career in the West but as many les.

On the other hand, it's fair to factor in that he was drafted by and spent the first seven seasons of his career with a flat-out bad organization in Cleveland. The East was by far the weaker conference in the years prior to when LeBron came in to the league- if anything it was worse than after LeBron arrived- and the Cavaliers lost a ton of games despite being in the weaker conference. So maybe LeBron gets to the Finals fewer times in the West, but maybe he's also with a better organization than Cleveland.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

tbqh youre still not getting it smh fwiw imho

I got it but you're the one that doesn't understand that being black was really hard in those days and the players wouldn't get the same opportunity as they do today. I have no idea why you said if todays players grew up in the same environment they wouldn't be offended by little things. There's nothing little about lynching or bombing churches, or getting beaten up by a mob or jailed for no reason. Any player could've offended a white man and gotten beat up by a mob or charged with a false crime and jailed his entire life. These things happened all the time and just bc Russell was lucky enough to survive and overcome doesn't mean that literally every other player in the NBA would do the same. You should read up on Russell and find out about his upbringings and his life before you make the assumption that any black player today could do the same thing he did in his day and age simply bc they would be born around the same time.

[Neo.]

I got it but you're the one that doesn't understand that being black was really hard in those days and the players wouldn't get the same opportunity as they do today. I have no idea why you said if todays players grew up in the same environment they wouldn't be offended by little things. There's nothing little about lynching or bombing churches, or getting beaten up by a mob or jailed for no reason. Any player could've offended a white man and gotten beat up by a mob or charged with a false crime and jailed his entire life. These things happened all the time and just bc Russell was lucky enough to survive and overcome doesn't mean that literally every other player in the NBA would do the same. You should read up on Russell and find out about his upbringings and his life before you make the assumption that any black player today could do the same thing he did in his day and age simply bc they would be born around the same time.

still incapable of reading/comprehension

[sook]

He’s not getting out of the 1st rd

[Chucho]

are you re ed

before he got hurt the lakers were among the top 4 teams in the west

And the Clippers were #1 in the West. The 2 thru 8 seed were only 2 to 3 games apart most of the time.

[Neo.]

And the Clippers were #1 in the West. The 2 thru 8 seed were only 2 to 3 games apart most of the time.

so a 20-14 record = 7-13 record

got it. cool math bro

[Kobe'sAchilles]

then you would have to account that plugging todays players back then, they grew up in the same environment and wouldn't be as easily offended by little things.

but yeah my reading comprehension sucks. Honestly yours does. You've made no argument or really any case to prove your point other than saying that line. All you've done is look like a moron and post random emojis. You said to stop nitpicking, but these aren't nitpicks. They were the reality of the times. Bad happened to black people. You've made zero case as for why Durant would be able to handle it other than oh he would've grown up in the same environment and the little things wouldn't have bothered him. Also you just called all that I listed as little things which shows how bad your reading comprehension is. Segregation, it's a little thing. No right to vote. Little thing. Extreme violence and racism. Little thing. My AC comment was admittedly a little thing but that was more of a throw away afterthought than the whole premise of my point.

Either way Lebron having 3 les and like 5 finals appearances (That would be his best case scenario for him if he played in the West his whole career) would diminish his all time great status. Most people have him #2 all time, but if he was 3 for 5 in the finals then he would be on equal footing with Bird. Kobe and Shaq would have more rings (less MVPs) but Shaq has equal Finals MVPs while Kobe having 2 more rings and 2 more finals appearances would make the debate fun. Duncan would be ahead of him He would be behind Magic and Kareem and there wouldn't even be a debate about Jordan like there is today. He is still a top 10 player all time (never claimed he wasn't, the guy is great) but he would be like #7 or 8 in most people's eyes. I guess I can reprhase it as his Mt. Rushmore status is a product of the Leastern Conference

[djohn2oo8]

LeGOAT's problem isn't the West, it's the Lakers. The new-age Lakers can't do anything right. They lucked into getting the greatest basketball player of all time purely on geography and his Hollywood career, and they've managed to that up.

Funny how’s there’s ALWAYS drama on every team he is on...always someone else’s fault.

[Neo.]

but yeah my reading comprehension sucks. Honestly yours does. You've made no argument or really any case to prove your point other than saying that line. All you've done is look like a moron and post random emojis. You said to stop nitpicking, but these aren't nitpicks. They were the reality of the times. Bad happened to black people. You've made zero case as for why Durant would be able to handle it other than oh he would've grown up in the same environment and the little things wouldn't have bothered him. Also you just called all that I listed as little things which shows how bad your reading comprehension is. Segregation, it's a little thing. No right to vote. Little thing. Extreme violence and racism. Little thing. My AC comment was admittedly a little thing but that was more of a throw away afterthought than the whole premise of my point.

Either way Lebron having 3 les and like 5 finals appearances (That would be his best case scenario for him if he played in the West his whole career) would diminish his all time great status. Most people have him #2 all time, but if he was 3 for 5 in the finals then he would be on equal footing with Bird. Kobe and Shaq would have more rings (less MVPs) but Shaq has equal Finals MVPs while Kobe having 2 more rings and 2 more finals appearances would make the debate fun. Duncan would be ahead of him He would be behind Magic and Kareem and there wouldn't even be a debate about Jordan like there is today. He is still a top 10 player all time (never claimed he wasn't, the guy is great) but he would be like #7 or 8 in most people's eyes. I guess I can reprhase it as his Mt. Rushmore status is a product of the Leastern Conference

I could sit here and clarify your misunderstandings, but not sure it's worth it to clarify it to a guy who's sitting here complaining that I "don't understand" the complexities of what a black man dealtwith in the 60s, yet who's very username and avatar is poking fun at the misfortunes of a legendary black player. Not sure Bill Russell would approve of that after all he endured for guys like Kobe, Tim Duncan and others to enjoy success in the NBA.

[Broly]

Last I checked; 50-win teams don't win many rings.

That’s not what I said.

[ambchang]

I could sit here and clarify your misunderstandings, but not sure it's worth it to clarify it to a guy who's sitting here complaining that I "don't understand" the complexities of what a black man dealtwith in the 60s, yet who's very username and avatar is poking fun at the misfortunes of a legendary black player. Not sure Bill Russell would approve of that after all he endured for guys like Kobe, Tim Duncan and others to enjoy success in the NBA.

Don’t know russell and can’t speak for him but pretty sure he don’t two s about some self-aggrandizing asshole who never did anything for civil rights.

[Neo.]

Don’t know russell and can’t speak for him but pretty sure he don’t two s about some self-aggrandizing asshole who never did anything for civil rights.

did kobe rape your mother or sister or something? still don't understand your butthurt towards him

[FrostKing]

I'd set the line at 1 Championship, not like he exactly tore it up in the East with 3 rings in 15 seasons

His legacy would be very similiar to Durant's

[Spurtacular]

That’s not what I said.

For what it's worth; Lebron was meant to win a ring or two in any conference. NBA wasn't gonna let that not happen. He ain't GOAT though. GOATs don't need all the welfare. He's embarrassed himself time and time again by crying for calls on non fouls and faking injuries that didn't occur.

[313]

2016 no complaints. They are the champs and Lebron played godly where nobody was stopping him. He was on a mission and played the best bball I've ever seen.

he definitely wasnt beating the warriors or thunder in 2016

[Spurtacular]

Faking injuries? Dude is one of the most durable players in NBA history. I rarely use the term "hater", but that definitely applies here.

He has enjoyed above the mean health. But durability doesn't make one above faking. If you haven't figured out that he didn't have cramps in the finals yet, then you don't know how cramps work or you aren't paying attention (among other events).

[JohnnyMax]

[BD24]

this also is a re ed claim

if hes a product of the east (implying the east has far less talent), then you have to take into account the fact that his supporting cast is less talented too. among the eastern conference teams, he had a very good supporting cast.

so if you wanna plug him into the west, you gotta plug him into a western team with a comparable level supporting cast for western conference teams. he should have one of the 2-3 best supporting casts in the west. so take this year for example, say you replace westbrook with lebron, and hes able to play with PG, shroeder, and Steven Adams. would they not dominate in the west too, aside from maybe GS?

he literally went from kyrie and love (a solid #2 & #3 option) to ingram and kuzma (a young, rather lousy #2 & #3 option)

he went to a tougher conference and has a worse supporting cast than he previously had. do we really expect him to be at the top of the conference in that situation?

Alot of truth right here tbh

[Spurtacular]

Faking cramps in the finals? ROFL Please, elaborate.


edit: You aren't a Kobe fan, by any chance, are you? I notice Kobe stans have an insatiable urge for trying to project the shortcomings of Bryant onto James.

Bruh, I ain't on any 's nuts.

You do realize that one has cramp, one stretches, not squats, right? You probably never played soccer growing up to not know that....

Now that you've been taught that he faked the injury, do you want to know why he did it?

[Spurtacular]

Where's he squatting at? I don't even know what you're talking about. And no, I didn't play soccer; soccer was viewed as a sport only s play in the US. I did get cramps playing basketball though.

Bruh, I cannot help it if you weren't paying attention. Go back and look at the clip. Repeatedly, he tried to squat to alleviate the pain. That's not how cramps work--not at all!

[Spurtacular]

Man, I just watched it over again. Dude isn't squatting, he's bending over slightly. I've done the same before I eventually get on the ground and stretch it. You can see his calf get huge/pulsating just like how a calf looks with a cramp. Not sure what your agenda is against LeBron but this is just hating.

You didn't watch it, liar.