So what's the point of political debate/discussion if no one ever changes their minds?

[midnightpulp]

Entertainment? Trolling?

I'm also more pessimistic than ever about the thesis+an hesis=synthesis model of discourse leading to compromise in the way it used to because there's an infinite amount of material on the internet that a person can use to further entrench themselves in confirmation bias, namely conspiracy theories and badly presented arguments that have an academic veneer. The Lord Jesus could descend from the Heavens tomorrow and confirm that anthropocentric climate change is real and the next day there'd be any number of blogs and vlogs claiming it was a hologram created by George Soros.

Is perhaps compromise impossible since many of the issues that divide the left and right are moral gray areas?

[hater]

Ive changed my mind many times tbqh

I used to like the Clintons, was mostly democrat leaning.

Now im a rabid independent and believe democratic party is neocon war party now

Also I used to believe we live in a democracy

[Pavlov]

"independent"

[hater]

Another example of change, This poor bas above used to post as chumpdymper and now changed to pavlov

[SpursforSix]

Entertainment? Trolling?

I'm also more pessimistic than ever about the thesis+an hesis=synthesis model of discourse leading to compromise in the way it used to because there's an infinite amount of material on the internet that a person can use to further entrench themselves in confirmation bias, namely conspiracy theories and badly presented arguments that have an academic veneer. The Lord Jesus could descend from the Heavens tomorrow and confirm that anthropocentric climate change is real and the next day there'd be any number of blogs and vlogs claiming it was a hologram created by George Soros.

Is perhaps compromise impossible since many of the issues that divide the left and right are moral gray areas?

I think there are perhaps a larger number of people than you assume that are willing to look at both sides of a debate and do the research and then make their own decision. They may not being the ones doing the debating as this seems dominated by the shouting extremes on both sides but at least they will maybe see the issues and then better try to weed out the noise and understand and form their own opinion.

But I agree there are plenty on both sides who are dug in and wouldn't even consider that the other sight might have a good point or that their side could be wrong about anything.

[benefactor]

I'm here for the lols tbh

[Chris]

Too often the Left will walk away from the discussion once the facts don't suit their narratives. Conservatives OTOH are malleable and willing to change their minds. You can blame decades of iden y politics and "political correctness" for creating the disconnect. Watch this recent debate between Cenk Uygar and Ben Shapiro and you will see these tenets play out.




The Left are an emotional lot who prefer to be entertained instead of informed. That's why the key players use comedy to make them more agreeable to their construed narratives. If you can make them laugh or cry, you can make them believe anything. The disconnect is at a subconscious level entering the realm of cognitive dissonance.

[hater]

Trump would have never become president if nobody changed their mind tbqh

This thread is infantile tbqh

[midnightpulp]

I think there are perhaps a larger number of people than you assume that are willing to look at both sides of a debate and do the research and then make their own decision. They may not being the ones doing the debating as this seems dominated by the shouting extremes on both sides but at least they will maybe see the issues and then better try to weed out the noise and understand and form their own opinion.

But I agree there are plenty on both sides who are dug in and wouldn't even consider that the other sight might have a good point or that their side could be wrong about anything.

I feel the right has really dug in on global warming (human influenced) and will not budge, no matter how facts you bludgeon them with. The fact is over 90% of the scientific community agrees with AGW and 97% of specialized climate scientists agree. To dismiss these facts, one would have to assume the world's scientists are participating in some vast conspiracy in order to impose "evil socialism" on the world. Maybe they're right, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

To make the criticism fair game, the Left is dug in with iden y politics garbage, framing just about everything in the context of race, gender, and sexual orientation. I do personally find the Left to be more reasonable on the majority of important topics, i.e. economic, environmental, social (iden y politics aside).

[baseline bum]

I feel the right has really dug in on global warming (human influenced) and will not budge, no matter how facts you bludgeon them with. The fact is over 90% of the scientific community agrees with AGW and 97% of specialized climate scientists agree. To dismiss these facts, one would have to assume the world's scientists are participating in some vast conspiracy in order to impose "evil socialism" on the world. Maybe they're right, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

To make the criticism fair game, the Left is dug in with iden y politics garbage, framing just about everything in the context of race, gender, and sexual orientation. I do personally find the Left to be more reasonable on the majority of important topics, i.e. economic, environmental, social (iden y politics aside).

The GOP used to believe in global warming too until the nigger got in office and the Koch's used white anger to rail against it and completely shut it down in their party.

[midnightpulp]

Too often the Left will walk away from the discussion once the facts don't suit their narratives. Conservatives OTOH are malleable and willing to change their minds. You can blame decades of iden y politics and "political correctness" for creating the disconnect. Watch this recent debate between Cenk Uygar and Ben Shapiro and you will see these tenets play out.




The Left are an emotional lot who prefer to be entertained instead of informed. That's why the key players use comedy to make them more agreeable to their construed narratives. If you can make them laugh or cry, you can make them believe anything. The disconnect is at a subconscious level entering the realm of cognitive dissonance.

- 40 years of trickledown trial. Didn't work. Conservatives still believe it does.
- Human caused climate change agreed by 90% of scientists and 97% of specialized climate scientists. Conservatives still believe it's a liberal conspiracy.
- Conservatives think universal healthcare will have negative consequences when it's proven to work fine in every other OECD country.
- Conservatives decry any tax payer funded social program as "ebil socialism" and don't realize the irony that they are biggest socialists on the planet who puff their chests every time the military gets another trillion dollars from the tax payer.
- Conservatives exaggerate any reasonable gun control ideas to wholesale gun grabbing.

I don't see the malleability here.

[spurraider21]

if you're going to judge the ideologies by media pundits like shapiro and uygur you're always going to wind up with a caricature

[midnightpulp]

Trump would have never become president if nobody changed their mind tbqh

This thread is infantile tbqh

Hate for Hillary doesn't equate to changing your mind. Many so-called BernieBros also voted for Trump/didn't vote at all just to spite the DNC, despite having nothing in common with Trump.

[spurraider21]

Entertainment? Trolling?

I'm also more pessimistic than ever about the thesis+an hesis=synthesis model of discourse leading to compromise in the way it used to because there's an infinite amount of material on the internet that a person can use to further entrench themselves in confirmation bias, namely conspiracy theories and badly presented arguments that have an academic veneer. The Lord Jesus could descend from the Heavens tomorrow and confirm that anthropocentric climate change is real and the next day there'd be any number of blogs and vlogs claiming it was a hologram created by George Soros.

Is perhaps compromise impossible since many of the issues that divide the left and right are moral gray areas?

i still learn quite a bit just by having a discussion. arguing forces you to sharpen your points and make sure you can back up your opinions instead of getting away with partisan talking points.

also when a new story breaks out... sometimes it takes a while to digest and really come to a meaningful opinion. in the meantime it's good to be able to read other peoples insights to see if you're missing anything.

but no, i dont think "debate" is going to change peoples minds on defining issues like abortion, immigration, etc

[Chris]

if you're going to judge the ideologies by media pundits like shapiro and uygur you're always going to wind up with a caricature

Just a recent debate from two well know figures on opposing sides. You're welcome to post a debate champ.

[Spurminator]

No one changes their mind mid-argument, but over time and multiple discussions (or life experiences) people do get brought to different perspectives. I used to be a lot more conservative, but then I started working with a more diverse group of people than I had grown up around and learned more about their experiences. I'm not sure I ever had some kind of "You're right, I'm pro choice now" epiphany. It happened over time.

In addition to that, seeing how ridiculous some of the conservative arguments that I used to agree with sounded coming from the mouths of fools gave me pause. Probably nothing was more responsible for my conversion to liberalism than watching a few episodes of Hannity.

[midnightpulp]

i still learn quite a bit just by having a discussion. arguing forces you to sharpen your points and make sure you can back up your opinions instead of getting away with partisan talking points.

also when a new story breaks out... sometimes it takes a while to digest and really come to a meaningful opinion. in the meantime it's good to be able to read other peoples insights to see if you're missing anything.

but no, i dont think "debate" is going to change peoples minds on defining issues like abortion, immigration, etc

Abortion is a very moral gray area that there's no objective right answer to. I see both sides of the argument as equally valid.

[spurraider21]

Just a recent debate from two well know figures on opposing sides. You're welcome to post a debate champ.

uygur is a dumb who happens to be liberal. shapiro is an intellectually dishonest debater. im not going to learn anything by watching that.

i do listen to shapiro's podcast on a semi-regular basis. i dont think he's that bad when it comes to talking about day to day news. he's honest enough about that stuff, and i like getting a different perspective. his on-stage "debate" persona is complete though

[spurraider21]

Abortion is a very moral gray area that there's no objective right answer to. I see both sides of the argument as equally valid.

i agree for the most part... but i think we need to come to a realization that no matter which way you lean, there are probably 100+ million people in this country who believe the complete opposite... and so banning the practice just isn't a realistic outcome.

i'm all for practicing what you wish without imposing it on others. at least pro-choice accomplishes that. its not like you're forcing evangelical christians to undergo unwanted abortions.

[CitizenDwayne]

Too often the Left will walk away from the discussion once the facts don't suit their narratives. Conservatives OTOH are malleable and willing to change their minds. You can blame decades of iden y politics and "political correctness" for creating the disconnect. Watch this recent debate between Cenk Uygar and Ben Shapiro and you will see these tenets play out.




The Left are an emotional lot who prefer to be entertained instead of informed. That's why the key players use comedy to make them more agreeable to their construed narratives. If you can make them laugh or cry, you can make them believe anything. The disconnect is at a subconscious level entering the realm of cognitive dissonance.

Liberals “just want to be entertained”, and yet repubs now worship at the altar of a reality show star

[midnightpulp]

Just a recent debate from two well know figures on opposing sides. You're welcome to post a debate champ.

How do you reconcile your stance on immigration with your Christian beliefs? Do you think it's "Christian" to deny someone coming from dire cir stances the opportunity to better provide for themselves and their families? I get your logic is that you fear the bad actors coat-tailing along with the well meaning, but how come we never hear from the right: We need immigration reform that keeps the bad actors out but makes it easier for people who want to come here and contribute.

[Spurs Homer]

People are not open to truth - they only want to confirm their beliefs

trump is a lying piece of traitor criminal
- but he is white and he has the (R) next to his name

for his supporters - the argument ends there

he can rape an infant

his supporters will invent a conspiracy to support their belief that baby rapers are ok if they are a white supremacist

[RandomGuy]

Entertainment? Trolling?

I'm also more pessimistic than ever about the thesis+an hesis=synthesis model of discourse leading to compromise in the way it used to because there's an infinite amount of material on the internet that a person can use to further entrench themselves in confirmation bias, namely conspiracy theories and badly presented arguments that have an academic veneer. The Lord Jesus could descend from the Heavens tomorrow and confirm that anthropocentric climate change is real and the next day there'd be any number of blogs and vlogs claiming it was a hologram created by George Soros.

Is perhaps compromise impossible since many of the issues that divide the left and right are moral gray areas?

This place used to be a bit more vibrant, with some vaguely intelligent conservatives, who have long since stopped posting. What remains... is the faithful bench for the most part.

The right wing has gotten way more radical since their successful gerrymandering made so many of their seats so safe (ideological purity is what gets GOP elected though the primaries, since the general is a given).

the same force was at work for many Democratic seats in red states. overall the tilt towards the extreme is more marked on the right, despite what the right wing propaganda machine wants to gin up for outrage clicks/ratings.

I have occasionally changed my mind on something when presented with some decent evidence, but that tends to be rare as the "conservative avenger" types that want to "own the libs" rarely are up to the actual task of providing decently reasoned arguments.

[hater]

Hate for Hillary doesn't equate to changing your mind. Many so-called BernieBros also voted for Trump/didn't vote at all just to spite the DNC, despite having nothing in common with Trump.

Sure it does

Obama voters who normally would have voted democrat in 2016 decided to stay home. Thats a change of mind

So is many independents who voted Obama voting for Trump

[Chris]

How do you reconcile your stance on immigration with your Christian beliefs? Do you think it's "Christian" to deny someone coming from dire cir stances the opportunity to better provide for themselves and their families? I get your logic is that you fear the bad actors coat-tailing along with the well meaning, but how come we never hear from the right: We need immigration reform that keeps the bad actors out but makes it easier for people who want to come here and contribute.

"Romans 13:1–7 makes it abundantly clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The only exception to this is when a law of the government forces us to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29). Illegal immigration is the breaking of a government’s law. There is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the idea of a sovereign nation having immigration laws. Therefore, it is rebellion against God to unlawfully enter another country. Illegal immigration is a sin."