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Brogdon grew up rooting for the Spurs and practically begged us to draft him. Plus he was a very high IQ guy. I posted a great article about him from the Charlottesville Observer in his pre-draft prospect thread downstairs.
If DJ can develop a reliable jump shot he may become a very good SG. Last we saw of DJ he had very loose handles and poor/mediocre court vision. He doesn't make his teammates better on offense. White does, especially LMA.
Brogdon grew up rooting for the Spurs and practically begged us to draft him. Plus he was a very high IQ guy. I posted a great article about him from the Charlottesville Observer in his pre-draft prospect thread downstairs.
DJ Murray has a ton of potential.If he can get through his ACL injury and get back the same or even better,he has all the tools to become an amazing PG for the Spurs.
I dunno if his ceiling is Allstar or elite role player,but either way,the potential is there.
But you are talking 2 or 3 years down the line here.Brogdon is a top10 SG THIS season.I you not.He is a top10 Shooting Guard this season so far and we are starting Bryn Forbes at SG.
Who did the Spurs need more in 2016? A project with a higher ceiling? Or a complete player that would slide in the line up from day one? (He was the ROY after all)
I’m all in on Murray and White coexisting in the back court. It’s too easy to say that Murray just needs to improve his stroke. I think there’s a equal need for him to adjust his game. He’s shone a penchant for getting in the lane and putting up awkward shots instead of pulling up for short jumpers. Looking forward to seeing this team emerge from this years carnage.
in which case the problem is in you, Westbrook has 1.7 ORB in career (with 2.2 peak in his rookie season / 2.4 per36), Dejounte 1.0 (1.4 as peak/2.3 per36). Westbrook is a better rebounder, although Dejounte's position for rebounds is ATG, making it possible to overcome him one day.
Ok, I'll bite. Last year's Murray had insane metrics on the defensive side of the ball that Brodgon can only dream about. He was the only player in the league with at least 400 rebounds, 30 blocks and 90 steals at under 6'6 and that's averaging 21 minutes a game. He was the youngest all NBA defensive selection in the history of the NBA and he grabbed more boards by a PG on the Spurs in franchise history! He was ranked 1st in Defense Real Plus-Minus and was the only PG in the top 25. Malcolm is ranked 16th among PGs and 171 among all players.
Murray is elite on that side of the ball and he has superior speed & athleticism. So, based on those attributes even with his deficiencies shooting, he is light years ahead of Brogdon.
Murray is oft-injured and couldn't hold Brogdon's jockstrap.
I didn't realize Murray's girl posted on here.
Murray is oft-injured and couldn't hold Brogdon's jockstrap.
So you want a player who is better at holding jockstraps?
Murray was a project when the Spurs drafted him. Brogdon was a much more mature, finished player. Everyone knew that - except for you, apparently. That meant that Brodgon was much more of a bargain on his rookie scale contract, and Murray was less of a bargain since by the time he gets Brogdon's level of seasoning, it will be about time to pay him more.
Pop's philosophy has always been to hold the other team to one shot attempt per possession, and shoot a better FG% by moving the ball and taking better shots. Murray is one of the best-rebounding guards in the league, which was a big factor. (LMA is a terrible rebounder for a player with his size.) The fact that Murray blossomed so quickly on D was a huge bonus.
Murray is a perfect fit for Pop's basketball philosophy. He also appears to be a hard worker who will improve year on year. (Another of the things Pop always looks for.) He's not Brodgon's equal on the offensive end, but he was good enough in his second year to hold down a starting position. If Brogdon had come into the league at 20, instead of 24, Murray would be the better of the two by far. Come back in 3 years and compare a 24 year old Murray to a 24 year old Brodgon, and the choice will be just that clear.
I know I've won the argument after reading that drivel.
Brodgon is a key piece on one of the best teams in the NBA. Murray is an injured scrub who can't shoot. We can't afford to have him on the floor with DDR, who can't shoot either.
I see you kept my argument out of you quoting me.Makes sense,cause i've already proven you being on the wrong side of this debate before you even replied.
Dude,nobody is saying that Murray is not an amazing defender.I'd like him to gamble less on steals when guarding an on ball opponent but that's just about it,negative wise.Magnificent rebounder as well.He can grab an offensive rebound over someone like Curry or Lillard before they even figure out where the ball went.
And i really wish him coming back stronger from the ACL,cause he has talent and potential and i'd love to see him become what he can,as a player.
All these facts though,don't change the main fact that Brogdon is better at basketball than Murray.
I dunno if it's cause you haven't watched the Bucks play this year and in general,and you just pull up stats and compare them.
If you do watch the Bucks at some point,you'll notice that ever since Budenholzer made Brogdon specifically play SG and gave the 2nd PG duties to Georgie Hill,he is one of the best SG's in the league! He makes 3's,he is one of the best guards at dribble drive and finish at the rim,he distributes the ball,and he is NOT a negative on defense.He carries his weight just fine on that end as well.
So,am i really wrong when saying that the right pick at the 2016 draft was Brogdon and not Murray? Or do i have a valid point?
Who writes the articles on that site? The articles read like a 5th grader’s writing assignment.
Brodgon is a key piece on one of the best teams in the NBA. Murray is an injured scrub who can't shoot. We can't afford to have him on the floor with DDR, who can't shoot either.
Remind me again how the NBA's All Defensive team is chosen? I know they choose scrubs like Murray, but I just can't remember who votes. Is it stupid fans, like the ASG? And, ummm… who was the last Spur rookie to be chosen to the All Defensive team? I'm sure it was some scrub. Was it Kawhi? No, he didn't get chosen his rookie year. Must have been some other scrub.
You ignorant simian. The All Defensive Team is chosen by the 30 head coaches, who know the players better than anyone. And the last Spur rookie to be chosen (also to the second team) was Tim Duncan.
The only thing you got right is that Murray is injured. And compared to the usual stupid things you say, that's pretty good.
Come again?
Kirby Bryant.
9 time All Defensive 1st team
3 time 2nd team.
The All NBA Defensive teams are chosen by the 30 head coaches.
For the All Defensive team the 30 head coaches take a look at the Defensive ratings of the teams and try to get the most impactful players of the best defensive teams in the selection.
Leonard wasn't playing last year and someone from the Spurs had to make at least one spot in one of the teams.So,rightfully so they went with Murray.
Murray wasn't a rookie last year.
Cheers.
And in the grand scheme of things i wouldn't really try to measure a player's value with awards.
Awards are most times narrative and public relations based.
I prefer the eye test,stats and performance evaluation in different kinds of adversities/challenges.
I mean Tim Duncan never won DPOY... That's how much awards mean...
You're right, he wasn't a rookie. It was his first year as a starter, and Kawhi didn't make the team until his third season, but I missed on that score.
But, no, that's not why Murray made the list. He had the best Defensive RPM of any guard with 50 games or more played. They don't choose the All Defensive team by default, because the team plays good D. Jimmy Butler made the list last year, and the T-Wolves were 27th in the league in Def Rtg.
So you caught me in a mistake, but still managed to say almost as much stupid as the other guy.
Let me try to help you a bit more cause you are apparently that much of a dumbass you didn't understand what i was saying the first time.
The Spurs had the second best defense in the entire NBA last year.
The coaches HAD to find a spot for a Spurs player in their selections cause of that fact.They went with Murray.He deserved it.
If Murray was in a struggling team defensively,with the same advanced metrics he wouldn't have made the 2nd All NBA defensive team.He is not that big of a name.
Butler for example made the team,and i won't even bother to check his stats or if he made it,cause of his name and the NARRATIVE that he is so amazingly hyper,super,dooper on defense.
Are we clear now? Did you get what i'm saying this time?
I don't like Murray's bball IQ from what i've seen so far and i still think that 24 year old Brogdon has a better IQ than a 24 year old Murray will have but thats my projection and i hope i'm wrong of course. Even if Murray improves his shot he has to improve in other areas as well, mainly his desicion-making.
Brodgon is a key piece on one of the best teams in the NBA. Murray is an injured scrub who can't shoot. We can't afford to have him on the floor with DDR, who can't shoot either.
If Kawhitter didn't quit on the team, he would have been in the defensive team and Murray would have just been another bench scrub. Murray is injured and has a cringe worthy girlfriend. Brodgon is better and that's an objective FACT.
You need to leave Jilly out of this. You knocking her only further emphasizes your inability to gauge talent.
If Kawhitter didn't quit on the team, he would have been in the defensive team and Murray would have just been another bench scrub. Murray is injured and has a cringe worthy girlfriend. Brodgon is better and that's an objective FACT.
Brogdon is a solid player but I think you are devaluing what Murray brings to the table. There is no way I would choose Brogdon over Murray, who is considerably older. Things will become clearer next year when you see Murray's impact.
Yes, I’d rather have Murray’s upside at this point than Brogdon’s lower ceiling. Brogdan wouldn’t save this team. White might be at Brogdon’s level in a season or two.
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