Flynn in major trouble for speaking to Russia about sanctions

[spurraider21]

Nazi Germany controlled the means of production, what they produced, how much and what they would be paid. They had private owners only by name.

a government-run economy is certainly more worrisome in a non-democratic system. you need the checks and balances.

[DMC]

a government-run economy is certainly more worrisome in a non-democratic system. you need the checks and balances.

They are both worrisome in relation to free market economies and representative democracies.

[RandomGuy]

Goebbels himself states they are socialists. Even if they don't match your present day ideal of socialism, they ran on propaganda aimed to appeal to socialists and they took power by doing so. They claimed to be socialists, and the socialists believed them. Ergo they were socialists.

Now again, tell me how technically they weren't since no true Scotsman would ever do what they did and call himself a Scot.

They co-opted the rhetoric, to be sure.

But they kept the means of production in private companies, even during the war.

D

uring the period before the war, all companies with the exception of Alkett (which was under the control of Rhine-Metal Borsig, a subsidiary of the government-controlled Hermann Göring Works) were privately owned stock companies with the stock available for purchase by the public. All these companies, with the exception again of Alkett, produced tanks in addition to their normal peacetime manufacture of trucks, locomotives, and other heavy equipment. From 1935 onward, the government progressively increased its control over industries engaged in rearmament. The Nazi Party's Four Year Plan introduced in 1936 placed Hermann Göring in leadership of the state's efforts to bring industry into state control.[13] Through threat and coercion Göring was able to expand the Nazi Party's control of private industry involved in steel and armament production.[14] By 1938, this control included the rationing of essential raw materials, factory inventories, labor hours, rates of pay, working conditions, building and machine tool expansion, plant locations and stock dividends. All companies were forced to join the Economic Board of the tank industry which handled all questions affecting the industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...g_World_War_II

FWIW.

[DMC]

Nazi Germany controlled the means of production, what they produced, how much and what they would be paid. They had private owners only by name.

They co-opted the rhetoric, to be sure.

But they kept the means of production in private companies, even during the war.

D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...g_World_War_II

FWIW.

I already addressed that predicted response.

[DMC]

[RandomGuy]

Nazi Germany controlled the means of production, what they produced, how much and what they would be paid. They had private owners only by name.

During the war yes.

So did we.

So did every national government. One can quibble about what "control" means, but the ownership was never fully transferred to the state in most cases.

At some point, though since the government officials were the ones deciding who got the contracts... a certain amount of cronyism crept in. Shocker.

[DMC]

During the war yes.

So did we.

So did every national government. One can quibble about what "control" means, but the ownership was never fully transferred to the state in most cases.

At some point, though since the government officials were the ones deciding who got the contracts... a certain amount of cronyism crept in. Shocker.

No quibbling required. It's right there.

[RandomGuy]

I already addressed that predicted response.

(shrugs) An attempt to co-opt any disagreement by predicting it? So what?

[DMC]

(shrugs) An attempt to co-opt any disagreement by predicting it? So what?

The invincible ignorance fallacy[1] is a deductive fallacy of circularity where the person in question simply refuses to believe the argument, ignoring any evidence given. It is not so much a fallacious tactic in argument as it is a refusal to argue in the proper sense of the word, the method instead being to either make assertions with no consideration of objections or to simply dismiss objections by calling them excuses, conjecture, etc. or saying that they are proof of nothing; all without actually demonstrating how the objection fit these terms (see ad lapidem fallacy).

[RandomGuy]

I already addressed that predicted response.

Explain to me how socialists give out stock dividends. This should be good.

[spurraider21]

They are both worrisome in relation to free market economies and representative democracies.

i dont see why an economic system like socialism would be worrying for a representative democracy. they aren't incompatible

[RandomGuy]

No quibbling required. It's right there.

Messerschmitt AG (German pronunciation: [ˈmɛsɐʃmɪt]) was a German share-ownership limited, aircraft manufacturing corporation named after its chief designer Willy Messerschmitt from mid-July 1938 onwards, and known primarily for its World War II fighter aircraft, in particular the Bf 109 and Me 262. The company survived in the post-war era, undergoing a number of mergers and changing its name from Messerschmitt to Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm before being bought by Deutsche Aerospace (DASA, now part of Airbus) in 1989.

The AG here being "Aktiengesellschaft"

Care to guess what that means in German?

[DMC]

i dont see why an economic system like socialism would be worrying for a representative democracy. they aren't incompatible

I said "in relation to" not "in conjunction with".

I offered an alternative. Maybe I should have said "compared to". I was putting free market and rep democracies together.

[DMC]

The AG here being "Aktiengesellschaft"

Care to guess what that means in German?

. Messerschmitt relied heavily on slave labour to produce much of the parts needed for these aircraft during the second half of World War II; these parts were assembled in an enormous underground tunnel system in Sankt Georgen an der Gusen, Austria. Slave labour was provided by inmates of the brutal KZ Gusen I and Gusen II camps, and by inmates from nearby Mauthausen concentration camp, all located near the St. Gorgen quarries. 40,000 inmates from Spain, Italy, Poland, Slovenia, France, Russia, Hungarian Jews and twenty other nationalities were murdered during the production of these aircraft at KZ Gusen. Messerschmitt officials maintained barracks at the concentration camp to oversee the work being done by the inmates. Messerschmitt, and its executive Willy Messerschmitt also occupied the famed Villa Tugendhat in Brno, Czech Republic, designed by Mies van der Rohe and Lilly Reich in the 1920s; the Messerschmitt aircraft factory office and the Gestapo occupied the property during the war.

[Spurs Homer]

Distractions distractions

[DMC]

Distractions distractions

Next time you want to associate a US political party with Nazis, check which side you're standing on.

[RandomGuy]

PKW Iv's primary manufacturer:

Friedrich Krupp AG

Again, AG = Aktiengesellschaft

If one's definition of "socialism" is "the state owns means of production" it seems kind of odd to use this term, especially for a people known for precise terminology.

Given the Nazi's turned around and hunted down anyone considered "leftist" including some union organizers, it has always been something of a stretch to call "Nazi's" "socialists". They adopted the sobrequet, but never really bought into the ideology. It was an oligarchy for the most part.

[RandomGuy]

. Messerschmitt relied heavily on slave labour to produce much of the parts needed for these aircraft during the second half of World War II; these parts were assembled in an enormous underground tunnel system in Sankt Georgen an der Gusen, Austria. Slave labour was provided by inmates of the brutal KZ Gusen I and Gusen II camps, and by inmates from nearby Mauthausen concentration camp, all located near the St. Gorgen quarries. 40,000 inmates from Spain, Italy, Poland, Slovenia, France, Russia, Hungarian Jews and twenty other nationalities were murdered during the production of these aircraft at KZ Gusen. Messerschmitt officials maintained barracks at the concentration camp to oversee the work being done by the inmates. Messerschmitt, and its executive Willy Messerschmitt also occupied the famed Villa Tugendhat in Brno, Czech Republic, designed by Mies van der Rohe and Lilly Reich in the 1920s; the Messerschmitt aircraft factory office and the Gestapo occupied the property during the war.

No arguments from me there. Private companies have used slave labor since there has been slavery.

Have you googled the term Aktiengesellschaft yet?

[RandomGuy]

Next time you want to associate a US political party with Nazis, check which side you're standing on.

Arrests of Political Opponents
In the months after Hitler took power, SA and Gestapo agents went from door to door looking for Hitler's enemies. They arrested Socialists, Communists, trade union leaders, and others who had spoken out against the Nazi Party; some were murdered. By the summer of 1933, the Nazi Party was the only legal political party in Germany.

Seems like the National Socialist Workers Party didn't like unions. or socialists.

Do you like unions?

[TSA]

First it was gun control debate now the topic has moved to Nazis. Pavlov cant stop talking about pizza and djohn is no where to be seen. The Russian collusion conspiracy on its last breath.

[TSA]

Why aren’t the board’s Russiagaters calling for Simpson’s indictment?

[RandomGuy]

Why Are We Socialists?

We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.

Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and regaining German freedom. Socialism, therefore, is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total fighting brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism. Without nationalism it is nothing, a phantom, a mere theory, a castle in the sky, a book. With it it is everything, the future, freedom, the fatherland!

The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. The sin of Marxism was to degrade socialism into a question of wages and the stomach, putting it in conflict with the state and its national existence. An understanding of both these facts leads us to a new sense of socialism, which sees its nature as nationalistic, state-building, liberating and constructive.

The bourgeois is about to leave the historical stage. In its place will come the class of productive workers, the working class, that has been up until today oppressed. It is beginning to fulfill its political mission. It is involved in a hard and bitter struggle for political power as it seeks to become part of the national organism. The battle began in the economic realm; it will finish in the political. It is not merely a matter of wages, not only a matter of the number of hours worked in a day — though we may never forget that these are an essential, perhaps even the most significant part of the socialist platform — but it is much more a matter of incorporating a powerful and responsible class in the state, perhaps even to make it the dominant force in the future politics of the fatherland. The bourgeoisie does not want to recognize the strength of the working class. Marxism has forced it into a straitjacket that will ruin it. While the working class gradually disintegrates in the Marxist front, bleeding itself dry, the bourgeoisie and Marxism have agreed on the general lines of capitalism, and see their task now to protect and defend it in various ways, often concealed.

We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging for that right. Incorporating him in the state organism is not only a critical matter for him, but for the whole nation. The question is larger than the eight-hour day. It is a matter of forming a new state consciousness that includes every productive citizen. Since the political powers of the day are neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of the coming socialist national state.



You guess the author

Translation:

"I take Goebbels at his word. "




Feel free to do so. Better than his words might be looking at what they actually DID.

[Pavlov]

No true Scotsman as I predicted

Nah. You simply failed.

By your logic OJ isn't a murderer because he says he wasn't and people believed him.

[DMC]

Translation:

"I take Goebbels at his word. "




Feel free to do so. Better than his words might be looking at what they actually DID.

All that is explained already.

[Pavlov]

First it was gun control debate now the topic has moved to Nazis. Pavlov cant stop talking about pizza and djohn is no where to be seen. The Russian collusion conspiracy on its last breath.

And TSA never ever cared about the security of US elections.

Ever.