Spurs Draft Discussion: 2019 NBA Draft

[R. DeMurre]

It's not as silly as you suggest. First, it's hard to be a legit good defender without being at least an adequate rebounder for your position. Danny Green has been that. As far as handling and passing go, you can't expect your role-player to have a star-level floor game, but in today's NBA, you need to have five "live" guys on the court. That means everyone needs to be able to move the ball or move themselves to keep the offense going. Danny's off-ball movement is really underappreciated on this forum, but even still, he usually failed to do enough during close-outs to counter teams overplaying him for the shot. The era of Bowen-esque three-and-D players is long gone. You've got to be able to play multiple positions on both ends now.

My point was a guy like that is probably going in the top 12, not at #29. "3 & D" inherently implies shortcomings in other areas-- otherwise, they'd be labelled "well rounded" or "complete game."

[Chinook]

Yes, but the point is that "well-rounded" is becoming the assumed nature of an NBA player rather than a virtue. We're not just talking about draft stock here. A guy who can't put it on the floor and pass is going to have a hard time being a plus player in today's game. Folks have no idea how good of a player Green is, so they think a lot of random players with his limitations can succeed. But it's like Aldridge's offensive game He gets away with it, but almost no other big can. In olden times, Thybulle would have just been seen as a guy with a role-player projection. Now, he has to be looked at like a guy who may not even be able to play in the league at all. It's like Josh Huestis, except Josh has also demonstrated that his defense isn't really NBA-level either.

[Mr. Body]

It's not as silly as you suggest. First, it's hard to be a legit good defender without being at least an adequate rebounder for your position. Danny Green has been that. As far as handling and passing go, you can't expect your role-player to have a star-level floor game, but in today's NBA, you need to have five "live" guys on the court. That means everyone needs to be able to move the ball or move themselves to keep the offense going. Danny's off-ball movement is really underappreciated on this forum, but even still, he usually failed to do enough during close-outs to counter teams overplaying him for the shot. The era of Bowen-esque three-and-D players is long gone. You've got to be able to play multiple positions on both ends now.

You're waaaay overselling what most players can do in the NBA. , even Klay Thompson barely ever dribbles the ball, much less Joe Harris or JJ Red . If those guys are dribbling the ball, something's gone horribly wrong. The Rockets' entire game plan is to have dudes like Gerald Green never have to put the ball on the floor.

[Mr. Body]

I think I may have misread you, but the notion that most guys aren't just sitting around the perimeter is mistaken. That's exactly what they're doing.

[Chinook]

You're waaaay overselling what most players can do in the NBA. , even Klay Thompson barely ever dribbles the ball, much less Joe Harris or JJ Red . If those guys are dribbling the ball, something's gone horribly wrong. The Rockets' entire game plan is to have dudes like Gerald Green never have to put the ball on the floor.

Not really though. I'm not saying Thybulle can't develop or that he wouldn't develop quickly. I've never seen him play. But acting like "three-and-D" guys don't have to do more in today's game is wrong-headed. Taking a guy with a good body and decent offensive foundation and teaching him defensive concepts and positioning usually turns out a better player than a guy with great D but who can't score. It's so weird that people think Pop is a great defensive coach while also thinking the Spurs need to prioritize defense over offense in the draft. Almost all of the team's leading scorers could leave the team after next year, and it's not even clear anyway that Walker won't be a better defender at the NBA level than Thybulle.

[Mr. Body]

Not really though. I'm not saying Thybulle can't develop or that he wouldn't develop quickly. I've never seen him play. But acting like "three-and-D" guys don't have to do more in today's game is wrong-headed. Taking a guy with a good body and decent offensive foundation and teaching him defensive concepts and positioning usually turns out a better player than a guy with great D but who can't score. It's so weird that people think Pop is a great defensive coach while also thinking the Spurs need to prioritize defense over offense in the draft. Almost all of the team's leading scorers could leave the team after next year, and it's not even clear anyway that Walker won't be a better defender at the NBA level than Thybulle.

I don't know what you're watching, but players really aren't called to do much more than they did before in the NBA. In fact, they lurk around the perimeter far more than they used to and probably dribble less. They just appear to be better ball handlers because the defenses are pulled out so far, leaving the middle easier to access.

[Chinook]

I don't know what you're watching, but players really aren't called to do much more than they did before in the NBA. In fact, they lurk around the perimeter far more than they used to and probably dribble less. They just appear to be better ball handlers because the defenses are pulled out so far, leaving the middle easier to access.

If that were true, Danny wouldn't still look like a train wreck with the ball on the floor.

[Mr. Body]

If that were true, Danny wouldn't still look like a train wreck with the ball on the floor.

So... you're judging the whole league by one player? Huh.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A lot of interesting prospects in the draft if you’re looking for good role players instead of stars. Really like KZ Okpala, Louis King and Chuma Okeke for that SF spot. All could be there for the Spurs at 19-21. Also slightly less realistic but Rui Hachimura, Keldon Johnson and Brandon Clarke (if he’s more like John Collins than Jordan Bell) and Grant Williams is also an intelligent player that coaches would probably love to work with.

A lot of decent talent there and with the draft stock being muddy after the first 10 or so, someone’s bound to drop.

[kobyz]

A lot of interesting prospects in the draft if you’re looking for good role players instead of stars. Really like KZ Okpala, Louis King and Chuma Okeke for that SF spot. All could be there for the Spurs at 19-21. Also slightly less realistic but Rui Hachimura, Keldon Johnson and Brandon Clarke (if he’s more like John Collins than Jordan Bell) and Grant Williams is also an intelligent player that coaches would probably love to work with.

A lot of decent talent there and with the draft stock being muddy after the first 10 or so, someone’s bound to drop.

Louis King is a 3 and D type prospect in Trevor Ariza mold
Brandon Clarke is Bam Adebayo type center

[kobyz]

If you want a 3 and D guy to dribble, you have problems.

I want him at least not to be a stiff, in today league for a guard to be a 3 and D may not enough to make him a two way player...

[Russ]

My fear is other teams pass on Thybulle and Golden State grabs him.

Dang, the last time people were this concerned about GS grabbing a player from the Spurs was the the great Patrick McCaw.

(The Spurs missed out on McCaw and got stuck with Dejounte Murray instead.)

Let's hope that the Spurs don't miss out on a once-in-a-generation talent like Thybulle.

[picnroll]

Dang, the last time people were this concerned about GS grabbing a player from the Spurs was the the great Patrick McCaw.

(The Spurs missed out on McCaw and got stuck with Dejounte Murray instead.)

Let's hope that the Spurs don't miss out on a once-in-a-generation talent like Thybulle.

Guilty as charged. I was higher on McCaw than Murray. That said when was the last time GS picked or added a perimeter player with zero offense like Thyblle. Him playing would totally wreck their offensive scheme.

[exstatic]

Guilty as charged. I was higher on McCaw than Murray. That said when was the last time GS picked or added a perimeter player with zero offense like Thyblle. Him playing would totally wreck their offensive scheme.

He's really not a zero, along the lines of The Almighty Huestis. He showed a clear mid range game in his earlier college years, as well as consistent 3 point shooting. It's like the new coach just shut him out of the offense.

[Drom John]

Bleacher Report: NBA Mock Draft 2019: Latest Predictions Entering Sweet 16
Joe Tansey
March 25, 2019

19. San Antonio Spurs: Nickeil Alexander-Walker, SG, Virginia Tech

29. San Antonio Spurs (from Toronto): Talen Horton-Tucker, PF, Iowa State

[Drom John]

LonzoWire:
2019 NBA Mock Draft: How high has Ja Morant risen?
By: Jacob Rude | 3 hours ago

19. San Antonio Spurs – Grant Williams, Big, Tennessee

The Spurs landed Jakob Poeltl last off-season but Williams is too good a player to pass at this point. The reigning two-time SEC Player of the Year, Williams is a big-bodied big man who has shown flashes of range, too.

29. San Antonio Spurs (via Raptors) – Matisse Thybulle, Wing, Washington

Thybulle is a tremendous defensive wing prospect with great measurements that needs some seasoning offensively. Sound familiar? The Spurs aren’t going to find the next Kawhi Leonard but they are going to find a productive wing player.

[Drom John]

heavy.com: NBA Mock Draft 2019: Zion Williamson & RJ Barrett in Top 3
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By Jonathan Adams

Updated Mar 24, 2019 at 12:00pm

No. 18 Spurs PF Sekou Doumbouya, Guinea

No. 29 Spurs (via Raptors) SF Matisse Thybulle, Washington

[ZeusWillJudge]

Of course I filtered out the centers, because Thybulle never plays at center. Even filtering out centers left tons of college pfs, like David West etc etc. And none of them at 6-6 or less totalled more career blocks other than the ones I mentioned. Sure, that favors four year players, but the point remains that Thybulle IS someone who could be considered 'generational' or 'historic' etc, at least at the college level

And I don't feel comparing him to Danny Green to point out his shortcomings is such a negative. Whatever his shortcomings, Danny Green has been a plus defender and playoffs/ le contending team starter for 8 straight years after 2 years of development after 4 years in college.

You sort of miss the point. Both points.

Steals are one thing, blocks are another. The kind of blocks that 6'5" guys get playing against college opponents won't be so plentiful in the NBA. He will get some blocks at the next level, but it will be a relatively insignificant part of his game. I pointed out that you eliminated the big men because Thybulle isn't a big man. Which is EXACTLY the reason he won't be getting big numbers of blocks at the next level. (I know, I know... Dwayne Wade got a lot of blocks. If Thybulle gets as many, I'll come back and admit I was wrong.)

Danny Green has been an outstanding defender. He has also been a VERY good 3P shooter. That's one more plus than Thybulle has at this point. And you still can't deny that Danny's inability to drive with the ball has been seen as a big negative. If the Spurs bring in a guy who defends like Danny (or even better than Danny), but can't drive to the basket OR shoot the 3? PATFO may still love him, but I guarantee you this place won't.

What the ... let's talk about steals. Danny has averaged about 75 steals per season. He's only had one season with 100 steals. The list of guys 6'5" or less who have had 110 steals or more in a season is dominated by Chris Paul, James Harden, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, and John Wall. How much attention would any of those guys get, if they had next to no offensive game?

[NickiRasgo]

Sam Vecenie does one for The Athletic (behind a paywall) but will discuss the draft a lot on his podcast and others like the RealGM podcast. I believe last year after the draft he bragged about him being the most accurate out of all the noteworthy ones (SI, ESPN, RINGER, various Stepien contributors, nbadraft, tankathon, etc)

I don't know his current mock as I don't pay for The Athletic

Thanks bro. s

[Ditty]

I would not mind taking two small forwards in this draft in the first round. love Sekou but don’t think we will get him unless we get the 8th spot.

[r0drig0lac]

heavy.com: NBA Mock Draft 2019: Zion Williamson & RJ Barrett in Top 3
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By Jonathan Adams

Updated Mar 24, 2019 at 12:00pm

yep, please

[BackHome]

I think Sekou will fall to 17 to 20 range not sure if I want him though.

[objective]

You sort of miss the point. Both points.

Steals are one thing, blocks are another. The kind of blocks that 6'5" guys get playing against college opponents won't be so plentiful in the NBA. He will get some blocks at the next level, but it will be a relatively insignificant part of his game. I pointed out that you eliminated the big men because Thybulle isn't a big man. Which is EXACTLY the reason he won't be getting big numbers of blocks at the next level. (I know, I know... Dwayne Wade got a lot of blocks. If Thybulle gets as many, I'll come back and admit I was wrong.)

Danny Green has been an outstanding defender. He has also been a VERY good 3P shooter. That's one more plus than Thybulle has at this point. And you still can't deny that Danny's inability to drive with the ball has been seen as a big negative. If the Spurs bring in a guy who defends like Danny (or even better than Danny), but can't drive to the basket OR shoot the 3? PATFO may still love him, but I guarantee you this place won't.

What the ... let's talk about steals. Danny has averaged about 75 steals per season. He's only had one season with 100 steals. The list of guys 6'5" or less who have had 110 steals or more in a season is dominated by Chris Paul, James Harden, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, and John Wall. How much attention would any of those guys get, if they had next to no offensive game?

The blocks show his defensive instincts and anticipation plus his physical gifts to get there and contest. It's about his pluses as a defender. Me pointing out that nobody in a real conference has block totals at his size reflects that. And he doesn't even play inside, that's a big deal.

People harping on Green's driving or lack thereof are making a point out of nothing. Thybulle (or whoever the Spurs take, could be Cam Johnson or anyone) would just be on a rookie scale deal for a pick in the 20s making peanuts and salary controlled for up to five years. If that player couldn't drive but is still a positive contributor then so what?

And that's if he can't drive. Why is everyone so sure Thybulle is some stone footed statue who can't pass or move or do anything but defend?

PATFO may still love him, but I guarantee you this place won't.

I don't factor in whether this place loves a player or not. The number of posters whose opinions I have respect for or take seriously is very small.

[BackHome]

He has better handles then Green would be slightly better then Green on Defense almost Bowen like. But would have to work his ass off with Chip. Can he do it yeah he is a good kid definitely Pop would love coaching him. Depending how the draft falls I could be happy they get him or pissed if they over look better players.

really hoping that Denver and Golden State over take Raptors to get us pick of 27 instead of 29

[NickiRasgo]

Isn't Brandon Clarke like 6'8"? I may be wrong but I see him as an athletic Tyler Hansbrough which is I'm not high on him, well offensively.