Cavs: Lebron a product of the east

[JoeTait75]

The 1987 Celtics had tough physical series against compe ive teams in the East

The Lakers best a .500 team in the WCF

By the time the Finals began the Celtics were injured and tired

Riley knew it and the strategy was run run run

So there is a correlation

That Celtics team had zero depth. KC Jones ran his starters into the ground all season. The grind of the EC playoffs didn't help their cause once they went up against the Lake Show, but they had those problems all season, especially after Bill Walton got hurt. The reasons they couldn't handle LA are the same reasons they had such a difficult time with the Bucks and Pistons to begin with.

[HarlemHeat37]

The 1987 Celtics had tough physical series against compe ive teams in the East

The Lakers best a .500 team in the WCF

By the time the Finals began the Celtics were injured and tired

Riley knew it and the strategy was run run run

So there is a correlation

No, that's just 1 year..you can find examples on both sides, there's little correlation, the best team in the NBA virtually always wins..

Past 10 years, excluding paths that were the same amount of games or only separated by 1 game:

2016 Cavs 14 games vs. Warriors 17 games(more tiring road lost)
2014 Heat 15 games vs. Spurs 18 games(tired team won)
2013 Heat 16 games vs. 2013 Spurs 14 games(tired team won)
2012 Heat 18 games vs. Thunder 15 games(tired team won)
2008 Celtics 20 games vs. Lakers 15 games(much more tired team won easily)

Really doesn't make a difference, the better team almost always wins in the NBA..

[lefty]

That Celtics team had zero depth. KC Jones ran his starters into the ground all season. The grind of the EC playoffs didn't help their cause once they went up against the Lake Show, but they had those problems all season, especially after Bill Walton got hurt. The reasons they couldn't handle LA are the same reasons they had such a difficult time with the Bucks and Pistons to begin with.

Yup I forgot to mention the lack of depth and I agree with you it was a big factor
But a 7game series against the upstart Pistons was tougher than any series the Lakers played that year.
The West was weak

[ambchang]

No, that's just 1 year..you can find examples on both sides, there's little correlation, the best team in the NBA virtually always wins..

Past 10 years, excluding paths that were the same amount of games or only separated by 1 game:

2016 Cavs 14 games vs. Warriors 17 games(more tiring road lost)
2014 Heat 15 games vs. Spurs 18 games(tired team won)
2013 Heat 16 games vs. 2013 Spurs 14 games(tired team won)
2012 Heat 18 games vs. Thunder 15 games(tired team won)
2008 Celtics 20 games vs. Lakers 15 games(much more tired team won easily)

Really doesn't make a difference, the better team almost always wins in the NBA..

How do you define the better team?

[JoeTait75]

Yup I forgot to mention the lack of depth and I agree with you it was a big factor
But a 7game series against the upstart Pistons was tougher than any series the Lakers played that year.
The West was weak

The West was horrible. But '87 is an outlier. How often is it that two legitimately great teams play in one conference final while a 39-win team plays in another? That type of disparity is rare, even in eras when one conference is decidedly better than another.

Here's a counter-example: 2008. The Celtics played six more games in the East playoffs than the Lake Show played in the West- virtually an entire series worth. Yet Boston still beat LA handily in the Finals.

To your point, it certainly doesn't hurt a team to have more rest going into the Finals. But I agree with Harlem that the better team usually wins. Actually, I would say that the best team wins the le in the NBA more than in any other major sport.

[R. DeMurre]

The year LeBron went #1 in the draft to Cleveland, Detroit had the #2 pick. That was the Piston team with Chauncy Billups, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, etc... They won the NBA championship the next season. If LeBron had gone to them instead of a hapless Cleveland team, he probably would've won two or three rings right out of the gate.

[ambchang]

The West was horrible. But '87 is an outlier. How often is it that two legitimately great teams play in one conference final while a 39-win team plays in another? That type of disparity is rare, even in eras when one conference is decidedly better than another.

Here's a counter-example: 2008. The Celtics played six more games in the East playoffs than the Lake Show played in the West- virtually an entire series worth. Yet Boston still beat LA handily in the Finals.

To your point, it certainly doesn't hurt a team to have more rest going into the Finals. But I agree with Harlem that the better team usually wins. Actually, I would say that the best team wins the le in the NBA more than in any other major sport.

I know I’d be offensive if I say this but the cavs actually comes to mind it’s doubtful they could have beaten all the western teams to even make the finals in the first place. The warriors were far and away the supposedly better team in that series but lost in 7.

The 07 spurs got lucky in avoiding the Mavs in 07. Though they are in the same conference but matchups do make a difference. If the Mavs were in the east they may have won it all that year.

Point is that a team is the better team because they won the series, but HH is trying to argue that Lebron would’ve won the same number of rings if he was in the west all these years because he had the better team, proven by the fact that they won th le.
1) circular logic
2) ignored matchups and view team quality strictly as a mathematical equation of if a>b and b>c then a> c. But we know that matchups do matter.

[R. DeMurre]

But imagine if LeBron, like Magic Johnson, had been drafted by a team that already had talent-- what would've happened then? Cleveland was a really bad team, and LeBron spent seven seasons there, getting them to the finals once against much superior compe ion like the Celtics and the Pistons. He never got a Kareem, a Pippen, a Robinson, or a Shaq as a teammate.

[FrostKing]

But imagine if LeBron, like Magic Johnson, had been drafted by a team that already had talent-- what would've happened then? Cleveland was a really bad team, and LeBron spent seven seasons there, getting them to the finals once against much superior compe ion like the Celtics and the Pistons. He never got a Kareem, a Pippen, a Robinson, or a Shaq as a teammate.

He's more judged by what he accomplished while at Miami and it was meh.

[JoeTait75]

I know I’d be offensive if I say this but the cavs actually comes to mind it’s doubtful they could have beaten all the western teams to even make the finals in the first place. The warriors were far and away the supposedly better team in that series but lost in 7.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who thinks Golden State was better than the Cavaliers in 2016. Having said that, outside of OKC I don't think Golden State's road to the 2016 Finals was all that impressive. They beat a Houston team that was in disarray and a 44-win Portland team that was only in the second round because Chris Paul and Blake Griffin both went down for the Clippers. There are a number of West champions since 2000 that had it considerably tougher than the Warriors did in '16.

[MultiTroll]

HH, Joe and all,
you think WarriorRef had no significant part in Golden gots beating Rockets in last years pivitol game?

Nevermind the screw ups by the Rockets, I'm talking that game that rivaled 2002 Laker Kings.

[lefty]

The West was horrible. But '87 is an outlier. How often is it that two legitimately great teams play in one conference final while a 39-win team plays in another? That type of disparity is rare, even in eras when one conference is decidedly better than another.

Here's a counter-example: 2008. The Celtics played six more games in the East playoffs than the Lake Show played in the West- virtually an entire series worth. Yet Boston still beat LA handily in the Finals.

To your point, it certainly doesn't hurt a team to have more rest going into the Finals. But I agree with Harlem that the better team usually wins. Actually, I would say that the best team wins the le in the NBA more than in any other major sport.

Good post tbh

[lefty]

HH, Joe and all,
you think WarriorRef had no significant part in Golden gots beating Rockets in last years pivitol game?

Nevermind the screw ups by the Rockets, I'm talking that game that rivaled 2002 Laker Kings.

Even in the ref didn’t help GS, Rockets still lose game 7

They beat themselves in a rather spectacular fashion

[DAF86]

lebron partying already lol

Unlike current Lebron, this one seems to play the D.

[MultiTroll]

Even in the ref didn’t help GS, Rockets still lose game 7

They beat themselves in a rather spectacular fashion

Thanks, 2002 Laker Phan.
Rockets had just won Game 4 and 5 to go up 3-2.
Game 6. Rockets ahead 39-22 after 1st qtr and are owning Warrior gots. Well on their way to reaming the Warrior Bois out of the playoffs 4-2.
There would not have been a Game 7.
Que WarriorRef big time.

[RD2191]

Been saying it for years. No one here wanted to believe me. Top 10 my ass. LeBum played teams with losing records in the 1st round for years. The east is garbage. Its almost like a lower level NBA, college tier if you will. And lol @anyone taking any east team seriously. They'd all get wrecked in the Finals, easily.

[JohnnyMax]

Kobe lost 2 finals, that's a fact.

He also won 5, so that's 5/7.

I'm no mathematician but I'm pretty sure that averages out to better than 3/9.

And when you dig a little deeper and realized Lebron had 2 franchise players, giving him a minimum of a 1 franchise player advantage over every team, it makes it even more pathetic.

Then when you look at the 9 finals appearances you say "damn, that's a lot".

Then you dig just a little bit deeper and realize Lebron played his whole career in the eastern conference which has been much weaker than the west for some time.

That makes his 9 appearances look much less impressive.

But still, 3 rings.

Then you realize Lebron had to depend on his other franchise player teammates to close out the opponents for him, even though he's been billed as the best player in the NBA since Kobe began declining.

But hey at least Lebron does have the statistics.

Then you start to think about how advantageous it would be to have 2 franchise players as teammates clearing up crazy space for Lebron to drive and shoot layups all game long.

Those are all what are the logical though processes of people who aren't obsessed with Lebron, and gullible enough to eat up media narratives.

Pretty much Lebron's supposed greatness is manufactured on every single level, which is why him getting further exposed in LA is so satisfying.

[FrostKing]

Best player in a weak Era. Curry, Durant, Harden. None of these guys are GOATs

[FrostKing]

[JohnnyMax]

[Laker_1995]

cmon man leave my mans alone lmfao

[Othyus Lalanne]

cmon man leave my mans alone lmfao

If there were no 2 conferences he would be just a dude among many who might have won a championship...

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Where's that Neo got at now? He's not a product of the East at all bbbut he would dominate any conference
Lakers were the 4th seed when he was healthy

never mind the fact that the Clippers were like the 2 seed, Houston the 14th seed and Memphis was in the playoffs. Along with OKC actually being good. Even Utah wasn't in the playoffs at the time. changes as the season goes on so saying that they were a playoff team at Christmas doesn't mean

[HarlemHeat37]

Lakers were significantly worse against the East this season IIRC..

[RC_Drunkford]

the Lakers have the same exact record with LeBron that they had without him last year