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Wade's 2006 ECF against Detroit was even more impressive. Sad everyone forgets how ridiculous a player Wade was.
tbh, the whole durability argument I’ve found largely silly. Manu misses a grand total of 1 playoffs in his career due to injury or otherwise, no more or less than Duncan himself (also due to injury), or plenty of other players, and by 2009 Manu was playing fairly big minutes for the Spurs.
I’m more inclined to buy that his career would’ve been shorter and perhaps more injured with a larger role, but I actually think most of the prognosticators that said early in his career he was wouldn’t last were largely wrong seeing him play until 40+ at a high level.
Wade's 2006 ECF against Detroit was even more impressive. Sad everyone forgets how ridiculous a player Wade was.
during their respective peaks, allen's and manu's assist were a lot closer than you'd think. manu was obviously better at driving/passing, but allen wasn't a nothing in that category. people are remembering his celtics days more than anything. he was a legit #1 option who was plagued with awful teams.
he had to carry a team whose second best player was rashard lewis. and beyond that? luke ridnour? radmonovic? jerome james?
manu had the luxury of only having to take over to the extent that all time greats like duncan and parker weren't able to on a given night. admittedly, the guy stepped up when they were out (the loss to the lakers in 04 when duncan/parker sat and manu put the team on his back is still one of his great moments)... but he didnt have to do it on a nightly basis.
im not trying to on manu, he's my favorite of all time, along with timmy, and i've had the same avatar since the day i joined this board... people sleep on ray allen like he was klay thompson.
Last edited by spurraider21; 04-15-2019 at 09:37 PM.
Hey, that stuff happened to a lot of guys. KG too, even Dirk, who eventually soldiered on and broke through. It was the Lakers time or the Duncan era. It happens. I mean guys like Dirk, IMO, have an added value of sticking with it and eventually getting it done as opposed going for super teams.during their respective peaks, allen's and manu's assist were a lot closer than you'd think. manu was obviously better at driving/passing, but allen wasn't a nothing in that category. people are remembering his celtics days more than anything. he was a legit #1 option who was plagued with awful teams.
he had to carry a team whose second best player was rashard lewis. and beyond that? luke ridnour? radmonovic? jerome james?
KG "soldiered on and broke through" when he joined the Celtics alongside Ray Allen... dirk "soldiered and broke through" when the mavs built a great roster full of players to hide _irk's deficiencies (chandler, marion, kidd). ray allen rang as one of the key players on the celtics and then again as a key role player for miami. when the celtics needed him to step up, he averaged 20 ppg in the finals, shot over 50% from 3, and set a then-record for 3's in a series, outplaying the league mvp. when miami needed him to step up, he did. what did manu do in the finals that year, tbh?
KG stopped being a franchise player when he moved to Boston, same with Allen. The Wolves and SuperSonics experiments were a failure. Dirk never stopped being the franchise player for the Mavs.
Everyone knows the high and lows of Manu’s career, tbh, I’m pointing out why I mentioned the Allen as a franchise player was a failure. I didn’t dismiss him at all either, he was a great player.
Ginobili>Allen>Wade. Wade most overrated ever
I actually rate Allen higher than most folks. You are just underrating Manu.during their respective peaks, allen's and manu's assist were a lot closer than you'd think. manu was obviously better at driving/passing, but allen wasn't a nothing in that category. people are remembering his celtics days more than anything. he was a legit #1 option who was plagued with awful teams.
he had to carry a team whose second best player was rashard lewis. and beyond that? luke ridnour? radmonovic? jerome james?
manu had the luxury of only having to take over to the extent that all time greats like duncan and parker weren't able to on a given night. admittedly, the guy stepped up when they were out (the loss to the lakers in 04 when duncan/parker sat and manu put the team on his back is still one of his great moments)... but he didnt have to do it on a nightly basis.
im not trying to on manu, he's my favorite of all time, along with timmy, and i've had the same avatar since the day i joined this board
Manu and Wade had better primes, imo.
Wade
Manu
Allen
If you compare statistics: Wade reached some tiers such as 30 PPG, 6 boards and 7 assists (twice) not reached by Allen
People forget the Sonics was Allen's second team. When Allen joined the Celtics he was already 32 yrs old
bucks made ECF, sonics were a good team. he was only a failure from a championship or bust mentality, with his prime coinciding with the duncan spurs and shaq lakers dynasties. and he had subpar talent around him to other "franchise players"... on the other hand you have manu who was never asked to be a "franchise player" so its a complete hypo.
Wade was the best player in the world in 2006 and even 1-2 other years, although the refs handed him the first ring.
Manu is definitely better than Allen, IMO.
1. Wade 2. Manu 3. Allen for me.
ElNono KG was a franchise player in 2008 while with Boston. Was definitely a top 3 player in the league that year and his defensive intensity changed the culture in Boston.
https://www.basketball-reference.com...er_career.html
Wade then Manu then Allen by this i was wrong
Actually could be a decent discussion because the value of each isn't just in the individual numbers. And the championship success of each could also be argued were not mostly because of any of them. But each was great in his own right for parts and stretches of their careers. I'd probably rank them Wade, Allen, Manu based on their NBA careers. But I'm not hardcore in that ranking.
I will say this about Ray Allen though. I think he would dominate in this era of the NBA. Teams now run offenses around three point shooting. It's not crazy for an individual player to take 15 threes in a game or average 10+ threes per. More wide open, transition action. Defenders not allowed to hand check and obstruct players out on the perimeter or in open court. A young, in his prime Ray Allen would put up some very impressive scoring numbers imo
celtics ray allen was essentially rip hamilton with 3 point range... but prime ray was so much more
D-Whistle
Manu
Gay Allen
Sorry but he wasn’t. Boston went from being Paul Pierce’s team to a super team. It’s just not your classical NBA team with the franchise player + pieces.
It might not be fair, but we wouldn’t be having this convo if all of these 3 guys didn’t win championships. That’s just part and parcel of these comparisons
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