OT: Is Kawhi kind of a choker?

[ambchang]

What time are the Spurs playing tonight? What? They not playing? They must be at home shining shoes...just like the Lakers.

Taken out by _enver. Lakers would never.

Yeah you have to make the playoffs to get taken out by Denver.

[ambchang]

Wouldn’t call the guy who just nailed the first and only game 7 buzzer beater a choker and I think he’d been phenomenal in the playoffs thus far and is essentially carrying a flawed raptors team.

That said I think he’s difficult to build around. He’s like a pre Pippen Jordan where he’s phenomenal individually but can’t create effectively for his teammates. He needs a Pippen like player next to him. Someone who doesn’t mind giving up the limelight, can lead the team on his own and can defend the perimeter. But Pippens don’t grow on trees. Jordan was lucky to have him because without Pippen Jordan would’ve never rang.

[Jonnyblue19]

Wouldn’t call the guy who just nailed the first and only game 7 buzzer beater a choker and I think he’d been phenomenal in the playoffs thus far and is essentially carrying a flawed raptors team.

That said I think he’s difficult to build around. He’s like a pre Pippen Jordan where he’s phenomenal individually but can’t create effectively for his teammates. He needs a Pippen like player next to him. Someone who doesn’t mind giving up the limelight, can lead the team on his own and can defend the perimeter. But Pippens don’t grow on trees. Jordan was lucky to have him because without Pippen Jordan would’ve never rang.

Siakiam is getting there. He is only 23 years old and doesn't everything outside of Kiwi. Hate to see how good he becomes in a 2-3 years.

[FkLA]

His performances in '15 and '16 were definitely disappointments. I kind of always attributed that to superstar growing pains though, since most players that reach that level have some big failures along the way. He was amazing in '18 before he got Zaza'd.

It'd make what he did to us hurt less if he was a choker, but I honestly dont think he is, tbh.

[spursistan]

His performances in '15 and '16 were definitely disappointments. I kind of always attributed that to superstar growing pains though, since most players that reach that level have some big failures along the way. He was amazing in '18 before he got Zaza'd.

It'd make what he did to us hurt less if he was a choker, but I honestly dont think he is, tbh.

We weren't beating the Dubs in '16, but that tail-end of that Clippers series was total meltdown from him..It hurts more because it was Duncan last playoff hurrah; everyone let him down..I honestly think the Spurs would have finally repeated that year even though we were on our last legs. We had Golden State's number that season who were still relatively inexperienced...

[midnightpulp]

His performances in '15 and '16 were definitely disappointments. I kind of always attributed that to superstar growing pains though, since most players that reach that level have some big failures along the way. He was amazing in '18 before he got Zaza'd.

It'd make what he did to us hurt less if he was a choker, but I honestly dont think he is, tbh.

We'll see. This is the defining series. Beating up the Magic and Sixers doesn't make a legacy.

[timtonymanu]

We weren't beating the Dubs in '16, but that tail-end of that Clippers series was total meltdown from him..It hurts more because it was Duncan last playoff hurrah; everyone let him down..I honestly think the Spurs would have finally repeated that year even though we were on our last legs. We had Golden State's number that season who were still relatively inexperienced...

Splitter injured, Parker and Diaw also getting fat didn't help. Still pissed Tim worked so hard that series while most of the team were mailing it in from 2014.

[DeadlyDynasty]

yeah I'd much rather have Derozan

[R. DeMurre]

This thread really takes myths and runs with them. Matt Barnes didn't outplay Kawhi in 2015.

Barnes: 7.6 ppg, 5 rpg, 0.9 apg, 34.5 3pt%, 40.8 FG%, 96 ORtg, 105 DRtg
Kawhi: 20.3 ppg, 7.4 apg, 2.1 apg, 42.3 3pt%, 47.7 FG%, 110 ORtg, 108 DRtg

Same with the Finals versus Miami. LeBron had much better numbers, Kawhi had more help from effective teammates.

[MultiTroll]

We'll see. This is the defining series. Beating up the Magic and Sixers doesn't make a legacy.

Which one of todays *stars* does better then Kwa with this Toronto lineup?

Curry?
Durbeta?
Embiid
LeBron?
AD?
Harden?
Kywie Irving?
Aldridge?
DeRosian?

Only one I can think of is Greek Freak.

[timvp]

Which one of todays *stars* does better then Kwa with this Toronto lineup?

Curry?
Durbeta?
Embiid
LeBron?
AD?
Harden?
Kywie Irving?
Aldridge?
DeRosian?

Only one I can think of is Greek Freak.

Well, DeRozan hadn't lost to anyone but LeBron in like four years. And you can make a pretty strong case that he had worse supporting casts than Kawhi has now.

Obviously, Kawhi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeRozan but worth noting, IMO.

[MultiTroll]

Well, DeRozan hadn't lost to anyone but LeBron in like four years. And you can make a pretty strong case that he had worse supporting casts than Kawhi has now.

Obviously, Kawhi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeRozan but worth noting, IMO.

Good point.
And it appears a lock to say that every legit superstar had a legit star(s) next to them. Can go on and on about how good the SS helped make the S like how Duncan elevated everyone. But in most (all?) cases the #2 (and often the #3) after the Superstar was excellent, at the very least an *All Star in his own right.

*Legit All Star regardless of whom media picked.

Timmy Dunks GNob Parker
Shaq, prime Kobme, refs

So I dunno that Kawhi has much of a legit All Star #2 next to him.

[MultiTroll]

I'm not defending Kawhi last night in Game 1s 4th.
He sucked.

But it still took Lopez going into some time machine and coming out Curry Jr. from 3 point land.

Let's give it the rest of the series.

[K...]

Is it that koowi has a stale game? Easy to predict when he's going iso. Usually he beats his man with strength but put length on him? Especially when he's gassed? His finesse and strength game probably fades pretty fast with exhaustion.

[MultiTroll]

Is it that koowi has a stale game? Easy to predict when he's going iso. Usually he beats his man with strength but put length on him? Especially when he's gassed? His finesse and strength game probably fades pretty fast with exhaustion.

I observe that Toronto is sorely lacking in a Plan B when Kawhi get's D'd up on.
Not sure that is Kawhi being a ball hog or if Nurse and the players want it that way.

[KimmyGib]

he does have a FMVP outplaying the best player in the world in the series, but since that 2014 run,

Kawhi had 2 great games in that series. Lebron had 5. Yeah Kawhi was the man, but Duncan deserved that FMVP imo.

[DJR210]

I can't label him a full choker since he does have a FMVP outplaying the best player in the world in the series, but since that 2014 run, his playoff history has been spotty. Let's see:

2015, high expectations for the Spurs to finally go to back-to-back. Kawhi has emerged as the face of the club. Best player in the world label thrown around a bit after a stellar game 3. Outplayed by Matt Barnes in Game 7, and had a terrible final 3 games to end the series.

2016. yeah LMA is coming to town! le favorites at the beginning of the season, even with the emergence of Golden State. Spurs absolutely stomp the out of the Thunder in Game 1 of the WCSF. Game 2 the Spurs lose by 1. Leonard? 14 points on 7-18 shooting. In the closeout game 6, he went 9-23 for 22 points. He was also 7-19 in a critical game 4 loss.

2017 is obviously an incomplete.

2018, ed out from the post-season. Insight into his mental for ude?

2019. Remains to be seen, and he's been very good thus far, but the Raps haven't played any real teams till now, and his performance tonight was mediocre. And he salvaged a 16-39 choke job in game 7 against Philly with, let's be honest, a lucky shot.

I'm not saying he isn't a championship centerpiece, he is. But he definitely needs a big balls player as his wingman to hit big shots and turn in efficient performances when he reverts to that player that was outplayed by Matt Barnes.

You're forgetting the biggest choke job of his career IMO: missing the FT to ice the LOB in 2013

[Jonnyblue19]

I'm not defending Kawhi last night in Game 1s 4th.
He sucked.

But it still took Lopez going into some time machine and coming out Curry Jr. from 3 point land.

Let's give it the rest of the series.

The same could be said about Kyle Lowry

[MultiTroll]

The same could be said about Kyle Lowry

True but not in the last 3 minutes....
After 98-98 Lopez had:
a dunk
a trey
a ing block whereupon the Bucks gained possession after his block
2 good rebounds.

Lowry (not saying it was his fault as to whether or not he'd shoot)
only had a missed trey the final 3:00.

[Mikeanaro]

This thread really takes myths and runs with them. Matt Barnes didn't outplay Kawhi in 2015.

Barnes: 7.6 ppg, 5 rpg, 0.9 apg, 34.5 3pt%, 40.8 FG%, 96 ORtg, 105 DRtg
Kawhi: 20.3 ppg, 7.4 apg, 2.1 apg, 42.3 3pt%, 47.7 FG%, 110 ORtg, 108 DRtg

Same with the Finals versus Miami. LeBron had much better numbers, Kawhi had more help from effective teammates.

Whats wrong with you?
Matt Barnes´ job was to limit Kawhi, not outscore him and he did a fantastic job, just like Andre Robertson.
He was stopped by 2 nobodies.

[MultiTroll]

^ 42% treys, 48% deuces Kawhi.

So should he have stolen the ball more from Pops Pet Parker?
Parker:
0% treys (not a misprint) and 36% fgs.

But but but Porker was distributing the ball and hardly shooting?
Nooo.
13 shots a game vs 15.5 for Kawhi.

[DMC]

He's hit that rookie wall, seeing how he played college minutes in the RS.

[midnightpulp]

This thread really takes myths and runs with them. Matt Barnes didn't outplay Kawhi in 2015.

Barnes: 7.6 ppg, 5 rpg, 0.9 apg, 34.5 3pt%, 40.8 FG%, 96 ORtg, 105 DRtg
Kawhi: 20.3 ppg, 7.4 apg, 2.1 apg, 42.3 3pt%, 47.7 FG%, 110 ORtg, 108 DRtg

Same with the Finals versus Miami. LeBron had much better numbers, Kawhi had more help from effective teammates.

In the pivotal games 6 and 7 he did. There's no excuse for a top 5 player to get outplayed in any game by Matt in' Barnes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...504300SAS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com...505020LAC.html

[Clipper Nation]

Chris Paul was a monster closer when I made that thread.

CP0 has never been a "monster closer" in his career.

[Down Under]

The 2017 playoff run before he got hurt, was peak Kawhi IMO. Scoring a lot, but not an insane amount, but also wreaking havoc defensively. Now he's scoring an insane amount & completely coasting defensively.