What a pile of a take.
Where did you see Bran becoming king? Where in the did this ever fit in with the overall narrative?
putting this pile of garbage anywhere near the Sopranos. The ending of this belongs in the realm of Dexter.
1. I specifically said tier 2, below Sopranos.
2. I didn't see Bran becoming king. I don't think a show's success hinges on its predictability.
Also, go yourself.
Well acted... poorly written. After it departed from the books, they did the standard Hollywood schlock making it about the individual characters instead of ins utions, movements, and wider society.
Bran didn't deserve to be King
No , that was kind of the point. He was installed as king by an oligarchy to pacify the masses.
Yeah, where have we seen ty foreign policy types continue to be given powerful foreign policy positions?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton
The approach was obviously to end the show the way the writers felt things WOULD happen, not how they felt they SHOULD happen. If they were trying to do the latter, they wouldn't have specifically written in a section where the lords laugh off the concept of democracy.
Every critique that hinges on whether a character was worthy of his/her end (and that seems to be the majority of criticisms of this episode) requires the presumption that everyone gets what he deserves in the end. I'm surprised anyone who has ever had a high regard for this show wants so badly for it to have a standard "happy" ending.
This show was nowhere near as good as The Wire, but the final episodes are similar in message. We are destined to repeat the same mistakes and society will continue on the same self destructive cycle.
doesn't have to be happy. i dont care if grey worm killed jon. jon's MO has been doing to right thing and living with the consequences. wouldn't be the first time he died for doing the right thing. the endings just have to make sense.
No , that was kind of the point. He was installed as king by an oligarchy to pacify the masses.
Yeah, where have we seen ty foreign policy types continue to be given powerful foreign policy positions?
The approach was obviously to end the show the way the writers felt things WOULD happen, not how they felt they SHOULD happen. If they were trying to do the latter, they wouldn't have specifically written in a section where the lords laugh off the concept of democracy.
Every critique that hinges on whether a character was worthy of his/her end (and that seems to be the majority of criticisms of this episode) requires the presumption that everyone gets what he deserves in the end. I'm surprised anyone who has ever had a high regard for this show wants so badly for it to have a standard "happy" ending.
ironborn previously asked for independence and were denied. now they're happily going to be bran's subjects while "the north" can just claim independence willy nilly? that doesn't make sense. it was rushed. its not a question of tyrion "deserving" to be hand. we know that compared to others, he is clever and tries to think things out. but given his history, would somebody actually name him hand of the king?
surprises and plot twists are fine. but they still have to be earned. a good surprise would be one that causes you to reconsider a lot of the past events/dialogue and see them in a different light. sixth sense had a huge twist. but then when you re-watch it, it all makes sense. same with shutter island, etc. look at the red wedding. huge shock moment for the audience, but watching through the sequence of events the second time, its easier to see it coming. catelyn letting jamie go, rob killing the karstark guy, robb betraying his promise to frey, etc etc. it's a surprise, but an earned one.
arya appearing out thin air to land on top of the NK is a surprise. but not earned. thats been the issue with a lot of what's happened. sure, there were hints of dany going mad queen. but foreshadowing isn't the same as character development. there wasn't enough to push her over the edge in that moment to justify her murdering all the civilians. and she tried justifying it to jon after the fact saying that cersei used innocents to expose dany's weakness. but by the time the bells were run and they surrendered, that was a moot point. its just poorly done.
would have made more sense for the second dragon to not have stupidly died that previous episode, and have some rogue lannister launch the scorpion bolt at him after they run the bells. that would justify her snapping in the moment.
the writing was sub par. i dont care if the ending is happy or sad. it just has to be earned.
Last edited by spurraider21; 05-20-2019 at 05:27 PM.
Who's to say the arrangements made in the final episode were permanent? Maybe the Iron Born revolt in 5 years. Very likely the Unsullied don't stay pacified for long.
Kings are bad. That was a dominant message. Yet, the show ends with another King... one with familial, collusive ties to an independent kingdom. There's no reason to believe or expect that Westeros is destined for longterm peace now.
its still stupid for them all to nod in agreement on the spot with nary a discussion about the north's independence or anybody elses. yeah theres probably more wars and revolts later sure. but this was still written as a conclusion to the story. who's to say that 10 years after the plot of armageddon a nuclear war wipes out the earth. does that dampen the conclusion of the story that the earth was saved by bruce willis? no, thats the conclusion of that story.
the wheel has somewhat broken with bloodlines no longer determining succession.
Well, I think you're getting into smaller details that are easily (and fairly) nitpicked. I have plenty of those for this season and previous ones. It just didn't ruin the show for me.
I think the comparisons to Dexter are silly. But like I said, it will be interesting to see how people feel about it in ten years.
im a huge fan of the show and still think that the overall body of work is Tier 1 imho. its conclusion was just not up to the standards that the show had set. they were lofty standards to be sure. if i'm just looking at S1-6 i'd put it up there with any show, save breaking bad
i would compare it to dexter in that the endings were weak. but at least GoT took a stand somehwere. dexter's ending was the ultimate copout. but dexter was great for the first 4 seasons (S3 not quite as much, but still high quality), and had a sharp dropoff and seasons 5-8 were not nearly as good. its different for 50% of a show to be poor and 50% to be great, compared to Thrones where the first 80% of episodes were good and it ended on a lower note.
its fair to say the latter seasons were of weaker quality, but no, i wont say the ending was a copout like dexter. it just wasn't compelling. jon killing dany wasn't the emotional climax it was supposed to be. not even close.
How does installing Bran as king pacify the masses? First of all, he's a Stark and hated in kings Landing. He's not an unifying figure and he lacks the skills to communicate and motivate a group of 5 let alone an entire kingdom. He barely ing speaks.
No , that was kind of the point. He was installed as king by an oligarchy to pacify the masses.
I do apologize for going off on you last night though. It's your opinion and that's fine.
IMO, I dont know if it was here or somewhere else that this was said but Tyrion is really the king behind close doors. I would go as far as saying Tommen was a far more active king and he did nothing.
The last shots were all from Tyrion making deals and making stuff happen. This was a shock move by the writers, nothing more.
its not all that alarming that the hand of the king is calling a lot of the shots. we saw it with tyrion in season 2, tywin in seasons 3-4. tyrion counseled dany quite a bit in the later seasons and she almost always took his advice.
there are justifiable reasons to make bran king (his motivations dont appear to be in self interest or power). he's not a polarizing figure. and end of the day is the lords approve, their subjects will likely follow. jon would likely have been the choice had he not just committed regicide, but jon suffering the consequences of making the right decision has been a pretty consistent theme for him, so that doesn't bother me.
lol Bran the Broken
I hadn't really had too much to complain about with the rest of the season even though it's been the edgy thing to do...but man giving the crown to Bran was pretty gay. I honestly rolled my eyes when he said "why do you think I came all this way", tbh.
I think Jon killing Dany was anticlimactic by design. It's basically written as part of the denouement. The climax is the destruction of King's Landing and the good guys realizing they've cast their lots with a different tyrant. Hard to say that didn't have an emotional climactic effect.
There's little suspense in Dany's death because you know it has to happen (though there was some shred of doubt after Jon talks to Tyrion).
thought it was one of the better episodes of the season (not saying much though)... but there’s still a ton to complain about tbh.
grey worm having the patience to keep jon prisoner“he killed our queen... let’s fly ravens to the other kingdoms and i’ll wait until we have a date set that works for everyone even though i’m not obligated. i helped destroy a city and killed people after they surrendered, but killing someone who killed my queen? nah, he deserves justice... and by justice i mean whatever other people in the realm decide.”
Like I said, I'm not defending the ending as an example of everyone making the right decisions, but I do think it's a pretty accurate representation of how things would have been handled in the aftermath (with some exceptions).
dany flipping was definitely a big deal, no doubt.
but if they took more time to develop jon/dany's relationship (they literally went from mutual admiration to boning one time on a boat, and then from then on forward they were supposedly "in love" but full of awkward scenes throughout the season), that scene could have been so much more powerful. tyrion and jon were talking about the duty/love thing and it doesnt have any weight when the audience isnt really all that convinced about their "love" which was pretty rushed and glossed over.
had jaime killed cersei, for example, we'd feel that. imo they were going for a diet coke version of that with jon/dany, but it just didnt work.
but in fairness, lets all praise this shot
and the resulting memes
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/co...t/be_a_dragon/
Totally agree the Dany/Jon romance was rushed, like almost everything the last two seasons. The pacing difference vs. previous seasons was extreme.
That was a great shot. I rewinded a couple times for it.
It could have been the GOAT show if it had 10 seasons where they didn't have to start rushing everything..usually I think 6 seasons is too many for a show, but this would have been the exception, too many characters, too much history, etc..
For a show like this, patience and anticipation was everything early on..once it became a fast-paced show, it was a disaster..
The series finale has officially being rated a worst finale than Dexter according to IMDB, Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes. Ouch
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