Trump-haters still ignoring the zero-unemployment ecnomic market?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Greenspan was the criminal of the 2000s housing boom, keeping Fed rates rock bottom. one of the worst Fed chairmen ever

Clinton didn't lead the charge on killing Glass-Steagall, that was Rubin and others. Clinton got snowed, stars in his eyes, and signed it, along with signing the bill that block regulation of derivatives.

yeah ZIRP was stupid too, interest rates should be close to 10% honestly

[Chucho]

The Obama led recovery is overhyped. 75% of the country lives paycheck to paycheck. Almost a third of US workers have between zero and 5000 dollars saved for retirement.

Wage suppression is a drag on the economy and will be an objective burden on social services when these workers reach retirement age.

The shrinking social net will be an objective social and political burden too. The worse off we are, the worse for us all.

Real question; how much do you think the societal mores and pressures to be more financially frivolous contribute to the average American's financial struggles?

Personally, I feel it's definitely something the average American just doesn't want to think about. It can be for whatever reason- zero accountability (which is a massive issue with our society and culture), complete apathy,a distraction from the stresses of daily life and so on- but it's something that plays a massive hit on people's finances.

I don't see people with phones older than a few years. I don't see the same ratio of older used cars to new cars on the roads as we've seen in past years. High end, luxury brands of all types of products are flying off selves. Online layaways for sneakerheads exist. Consumerism coupled with the pressures of keeping up with the Joneses and lack of educating youth about money and real life in highschool are all massive contributing factors to the lack of concern for financial security.

I think it's the biggest elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Simply put we're an overly spoiled society plain and simple and we want to look beyond ourselves for a reason we overspend. Thoughts and how much of this do you think is part of the modern American living beyond their means?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Real question; how much do you think the societal mores and pressures to be more financially frivolous contribute to the average American's financial struggles?

Personally, I feel it's definitely something the average American just doesn't want to think about. It can be for whatever reason- zero accountability (which is a massive issue with our society and culture), complete apathy,a distraction from the stresses of daily life and so on- but it's something that plays a massive hit on people's finances.

I don't see people with phones older than a few years. I don't see the same ratio of older used cars to new cars on the roads as we've seen in past years. High end, luxury brands of all types of products are flying off selves. Online layaways for sneakerheads exist. Consumerism coupled with the pressures of keeping up with the Joneses and lack of educating youth about money and real life in highschool are all massive contributing factors to the lack of concern for financial security.

I think it's the biggest elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Simply put we're an overly spoiled society plain and simple and we want to look beyond ourselves for a reason we overspend. Thoughts and how much of this do you think is part of the modern American living beyond their means?

This is a quality post.

There aren't many millennials like me with (self-earned) over $100K in a CD, plus solid five figures in a personal checking account, plus solid five figures in a separate business checking account, plus an emergency fund with a different bank, plus a credit score of 780+.

I guess I just don't really care about getting the newest version of the Samsung or Iphone. I loved my flip phone in middle school and early high school until the carrier (Pocket) went out of business. Then, I loved my Samsung blackberry imposter phone until Cricket switched to smartphones only and I was heartbroken and I got my first smartphone in summer 2014, a Samsung Galaxy Exhibit from MetroPCS which lasted all the way up until this past Christmas, December 2018 when the GPS died and I finally had to upgrade. I now have a Samsung Galaxy J3 from MetroPCS and I plan on having it long term, until it dies or the important features like GPS die without backwards support compatibility.

My personal laptop? A 2013 Dell that I'm using right now. I love it and it's my baby and I never want it to die. It's that beautiful teal-blue colored one.

My clothes? Mostly the same ones since high school. I didn't grow more than 1-2 inches after HS, so that helped. I did invest in a leather jacket and rhino-skin cowboy boots when I moved to Denton, but that's about it.

My entertainment expenses? Near-zero per month. I have Frontier internet which is fast and $40/month. I don't have cable; I don't watch TV shows and watch all my sports and movies through free streaming apps and sites. During football season, I get out my trusty HDMI cable and connect my laptop to the big flat screen TV, which I got at a discount for only $200. I don't plan on replacing that anytime soon, either.

I only go to the movies when I'm dating some girl, and even then I'll go on the cheap night. I don't spend much money on myself; only on a really promising girl that I'm interested in a serious relationship with.

I don't drink alcohol, smoke (including cannabis), or do drugs. That saves a lot of money right there.

I shop at Walmart, Aldi, and occasionally the food pantry. I know how to cook. I'm good at cooking; I don't need no woman to cook for me and do my dishes. I do get organic vegetables from Aldi because they're healthy and cheap enough. I never get take-out food, seldom eat at restaurants, and eat fast food maximum twice per month.

I'm 130 pounds, slim, athletic, and very attractive. I walk around a lot and play sports for fun in the evenings instead of sitting on my ass playing video games. As a result of my lifestyle, I'm not ugly and obese like many millennials and other Americans today.


More people need to be like me, Andrew H. the Millennial Messiah. Be more like me, folks.

[RandomGuy]

Housing market collapsed (had been teetering since about 2003), subprime lenders got exposed for ponzi mortgage schemes, some suit and tie guys went to prison, adjustable loans ballooned, homeowners had no choice but to foreclose leading to a period of deflation, rock-bottom prices and poor job prospects. Terrible. But it was the big wigs on wall street etc, not Bush that caused it.

One banker went to prison.

One.

Technically the mortgage backed debt crisis was not a "ponzi" scheme, it was a simple asset bubble.

[boutons_deux]

One banker went to prison.

One.

Technically the mortgage backed debt crisis was not a "ponzi" scheme, it was a simple asset bubble.

two finance guys paid, one was South Asian, the other was French

[midnightpulp]

Why do people major in stupid like humanities and art history and load management and hospitality and wonder why they're living paycheck to paycheck at age 30? Get a degree in java programming and you're set for life. Stop ing. I have 6 figures in a CD in the bank.

The world needs "ditch diggers" as the saying goes. If everyone majored in coding, then that job market becomes oversaturated and thus coding becomes a "worthless" degree. So what jobs will be available for our out of work coders? "Ditch digging." Anyone who drags their ass out of bed to work 9 to 5 deserves to make a comfortable living wage, regardless of the job's supposed "skill level."

[RandomGuy]

Yes, there's still shooters and poopers on the streets in some big cities, but they're the biggest liberal holes the USA has to offer.

The US economy has not been this strong (adjusted for inflation) since the 1950s era of good feelings.

Wages have simply been stagnant for the better part of three decades adjusted for inflation.



Of course, though that is an average.

Divy it up by income bracket, and the real beneficiaries of our economy become clear.




Trump doesn't give two s about anyone but himself, and the tax cut for the wealthy that the GOP pushed through primarily benefited those at the very top.

Happy to talk about a healthy job market, that is a good thing. Hopefully real wages will rise at some point, but I am not holding my breath, because that isn't in the shareholder's most immediate short term interests. Stock buy back though...

[midnightpulp]

This is a quality post.

There aren't many millennials like me with (self-earned) over $100K in a CD, plus solid five figures in a personal checking account, plus solid five figures in a separate business checking account, plus an emergency fund with a different bank, plus a credit score of 780+.

I guess I just don't really care about getting the newest version of the Samsung or Iphone. I loved my flip phone in middle school and early high school until the carrier (Pocket) went out of business. Then, I loved my Samsung blackberry imposter phone until Cricket switched to smartphones only and I was heartbroken and I got my first smartphone in summer 2014, a Samsung Galaxy Exhibit from MetroPCS which lasted all the way up until this past Christmas, December 2018 when the GPS died and I finally had to upgrade. I now have a Samsung Galaxy J3 from MetroPCS and I plan on having it long term, until it dies or the important features like GPS die without backwards support compatibility.

My personal laptop? A 2013 Dell that I'm using right now. I love it and it's my baby and I never want it to die. It's that beautiful teal-blue colored one.

My clothes? Mostly the same ones since high school. I didn't grow more than 1-2 inches after HS, so that helped. I did invest in a leather jacket and rhino-skin cowboy boots when I moved to Denton, but that's about it.

My entertainment expenses? Near-zero per month. I have Frontier internet which is fast and $40/month. I don't have cable; I don't watch TV shows and watch all my sports and movies through free streaming apps and sites. During football season, I get out my trusty HDMI cable and connect my laptop to the big flat screen TV, which I got at a discount for only $200. I don't plan on replacing that anytime soon, either.

I only go to the movies when I'm dating some girl, and even then I'll go on the cheap night. I don't spend much money on myself; only on a really promising girl that I'm interested in a serious relationship with.

I don't drink alcohol, smoke (including cannabis), or do drugs. That saves a lot of money right there.

I shop at Walmart, Aldi, and occasionally the food pantry. I know how to cook. I'm good at cooking; I don't need no woman to cook for me and do my dishes. I do get organic vegetables from Aldi because they're healthy and cheap enough. I never get take-out food, seldom eat at restaurants, and eat fast food maximum twice per month.

I'm 130 pounds, slim, athletic, and very attractive. I walk around a lot and play sports for fun in the evenings instead of sitting on my ass playing video games. As a result of my lifestyle, I'm not ugly and obese like many millennials and other Americans today.


More people need to be like me, Andrew H. the Millennial Messiah. Be more like me, folks.

People don't consider that consumerism is what drives the economy. Like it or not, we painted ourselves in our corner in this regard. Less people spending "frivolously"=weaker economy, meaning less demand for coders to write advertising algorithms for Amazon. Ironically, saving money doesn't translate to a healthy economy. I'm familiar with the counterarguments that saving is beneficial for the economy, and find them weak. Such as:

The second factor – and this is the big one – that makes the “paradox of thrift” fail is that putting money in savings accounts does not remove it from the economy. When you put money in a savings account, it becomes money that the bank can then lend out to businesses. Thus, when more people save, the banks have more resources to pump out to businesses, and when the businesses have more resources, they employ more people, innovate new products, and find new ways to sell.

If everyone goes into spending hibernation, there will be much less demand for these "innovative new products" and thus banks will be tighter with lending.

[Millennial_Messiah]

People don't consider that consumerism is what drives the economy. Like it or not, we painted ourselves in our corner in this regard. Less people spending "frivolously"=weaker economy, meaning less demand for coders to write advertising algorithms for Amazon. Ironically, saving money doesn't translate to a healthy economy. I'm familiar with the counterarguments that saving is beneficial for the economy, and find them weak. Such as:



If everyone goes into spending hibernation, there will be much less demand for these "innovative new products" and thus banks will be tighter with lending.

that is correct-Keynesian consumerism drives economy, if there is no consumerism there is no demand, if there is no demand then supplying stuff is pointless and loses money.

but there are certain things specific individuals like me can do to take advantage and be one of the few and not one of the many, zig when the rest zag, to get rich.

[midnightpulp]

Wages have simply been stagnant for the better part of three decades adjusted for inflation.



Of course, though that is an average.

Divy it up by income bracket, and the real beneficiaries of our economy become clear.




Trump doesn't give two s about anyone but himself, and the tax cut for the wealthy that the GOP pushed through primarily benefited those at the very top.

Happy to talk about a healthy job market, that is a good thing. Hopefully real wages will rise at some point, but I am not holding my breath, because that isn't in the shareholder's most immediate short term interests. Stock buy back though...

Everyone just jerks off the DOW and GDP, erroneously thinking those are the defining factors of a healthy economy. My benchmark is wage growth for those below the top quintile and we see it's been stagnant. Of course the canned response from "bootstrappers" is that everyone just needs to get the right degree and the riches will flow. Well, as I've explained in a prior post, if everyone had a STEM degree, the supply of talent in those field would far out number the demand, and the STEM grads who found themselves shut out would have no choice but to become proverbial ditch diggers. Judge Smails uttered an incontrovertible fact: "The world needs ditch diggers."

[midnightpulp]

that is correct-Keynesian consumerism drives economy, if there is no consumerism there is no demand, if there is no demand then supplying stuff is pointless and loses money.

but there are certain things specific individuals like me can do to take advantage and be one of the few and not one of the many, zig when the rest zag, to get rich.

Yeah, but without everyone zagging, you can't zig, which is why you really wouldn't want more people to "be like you." You would actually want the lower classes to have more spending power so they can zag more, allowing you to zig more.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah, but without everyone zagging, you can't zig, which is why you really wouldn't want more people to "be like you." You would actually want the lower classes to have more spending power so they can zag more, allowing you to zig more.

Exactly- that's the paradox. I don't actually want everyone to be like me, just like Bill Belichick doesn't want the other 31 teams to be like the Patriots. Because that would supersaturate things and re-level the playing field, neutralizing my advantage. I want to be one of the few ziggers and try to convince everyone else to zag. CIA style.

[midnightpulp]

Exactly- that's the paradox. I don't actually want everyone to be like me, just like Bill Belichick doesn't want the other 31 teams to be like the Patriots. Because that would supersaturate things and re-level the playing field, neutralizing my advantage. I want to be one of the few ziggers and try to convince everyone else to zag.CIA style.

And everyone but the super-super rich wins when everyone but them has more money. Lower class get their increased spending power, you get to do more zigging, and Wilbur Ross might not get to buy another 10 million painting that year, Lord help him.

[Millennial_Messiah]

And everyone but the super-super rich wins when everyone but them has more money. Lower class get their increased spending power, you get to do more zigging, and Wilbur Ross might not get to buy another 10 million painting that year, Lord help him.

But what to do? Raise taxes over 70% on everyone with a million dollars or more in annual income?

[midnightpulp]

But what to do? Raise taxes over 70% on everyone with a million dollars or more in annual income?

Million per year isn't what it used to be, so I wouldn't be in favor of a rate that high, but it is bull when someone making 480K per year is in the same bracket as someone making 10 million per year, don't you think?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Million per year isn't what it used to be, so I wouldn't be in favor of a rate that high, but it is bull when someone making 480K per year is in the same bracket as someone making 10 million per year, don't you think?

correct. 480K per year in say, Manhattan or coastal California for a family of 4 is just middle class IMO.

Whereas 10 million is obviously filthy rich wherever you go in the world.

The middle class (not the poor) bear the worst tax burden but it's always been that way.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Here's my class theory: Millennial_Messiah



Considering IRS taxes only and no state or local income tax, annual gross income:

<50K: Impoverished
50K-125K: Lower-middle class
125K-250K: Middle-middle class
250K-750K: Upper-middle class
750K-10M: Rich and Wealthy
>10M: Elite

This applies to states like Florida and Texas with no SALT taxes. If you add state and local taxes, you take your gross income, subtract the % of SALT taxes based on your income and then use my scale to determine your accurate level of wealth.

I am middle-middle class. I grew up on the border of poverty and lower-middle class.

[RandomGuy]

Everyone just jerks off the DOW and GDP, erroneously thinking those are the defining factors of a healthy economy. My benchmark is wage growth for those below the top quintile and we see it's been stagnant. Of course the canned response from "bootstrappers" is that everyone just needs to get the right degree and the riches will flow. Well, as I've explained in a prior post, if everyone had a STEM degree, the supply of talent in those field would far out number the demand, and the STEM grads who found themselves shut out would have no choice but to become proverbial ditch diggers. Judge Smails uttered an incontrovertible fact: "The world needs ditch diggers."

Correct.

Which is why the "trickle down" myth fails time after time after time. Give more money to large corporations, they do stock buy backs, that benefit... the wealthy. Corporations are not investing in jobs or people, and won't until THAT culture of "shareholder value" changes.

Raise taxes on the corporations, give the IRS some teeth to go after these ers, and kill the dark money flowing into politics. Not a single Republican policy in that solution set.

[Winehole23]

Real question; how much do you think the societal mores and pressures to be more financially frivolous contribute to the average American's financial struggles?

Personally, I feel it's definitely something the average American just doesn't want to think about. It can be for whatever reason- zero accountability (which is a massive issue with our society and culture), complete apathy,a distraction from the stresses of daily life and so on- but it's something that plays a massive hit on people's finances.

I don't see people with phones older than a few years. I don't see the same ratio of older used cars to new cars on the roads as we've seen in past years. High end, luxury brands of all types of products are flying off selves. Online layaways for sneakerheads exist. Consumerism coupled with the pressures of keeping up with the Joneses and lack of educating youth about money and real life in highschool are all massive contributing factors to the lack of concern for financial security.

I think it's the biggest elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Simply put we're an overly spoiled society plain and simple and we want to look beyond ourselves for a reason we overspend. Thoughts and how much of this do you think is part of the modern American living beyond their means?

There's something to what you're saying, but you can't outrun macro trends no matter how responsible you are. Gone is the day when you could put your money in the bank and watch the miracle of compound interest. The last 12 years have been on savers.

Personal irresponsibility didn't cause generation long wage suppression with a concomitant rise in education/housing/heathcare costs either.

[Winehole23]

Greed did.

[Winehole23]

i guess that's the silver lining.

[pgardn]

That would be Bill Clinton who was responsible for leading the charge in repealing the Glass-Stegall act from the 30's .Which was replaced by the Gramm Leach Bliley act that set the banks free to go wild

That would be wrong.
What did the federal government do in 2004?

[Spurtacular]

Out of curiosity, do you place any blame on Republicans for the debt that was accrued while Obama was in office?

You obviously don't pay attention to my substantive posts--too triggered I suppose. If you did, you'd know I don't hold Republicans in any high esteem.

[UnWantedTheory]

You obviously don't pay attention to my substantive posts--too triggered I suppose. If you did, you'd know I don't hold Republicans in any high esteem.

True, I don't much pay attention to you. Also, I was asking a legitimate and genuine question. It seems like you are the one triggered Spurt.

[Spurtacular]

True, I don't much pay attention to you. Also, I was asking a legitimate and genuine question. It seems like you are the one triggered Spurt.

Buzz words; and yea, you don't pay attention.