***OFFICIAL KAWHI RELATED NEWS Thread***

[exstatic]

Nope spurs asked him to take less to sign/trade another allstar and he was offended af

Nope. They (The Group) were mad at his second contract due to timing, not money. SA didn't want to extend him, because that would have ruined their cap sheet for LaMarcus. Load management ended up making MORE money by signing a new deal in 2015 than he would have if he had signed an extension the year before. The money issue was during the second contract, when discussing the third contract.

[slick'81]

Nope. They (The Group) were mad at his second contract due to timing, not money. SA didn't want to extend him, because that would have ruined their cap sheet for LaMarcus. Load management ended up making MORE money by signing a new deal in 2015 than he would have if he had signed an extension the year before. The money issue was during the second contract, when discussing the third contract.

Man spurs wouldnt penny up i guess

[exstatic]

Man spurs wouldnt penny up i guess

They told his group that the injury was degenerative. Two years later, he’s dragging a leg up and down the court.

[slick'81]

They told his group that the injury was degenerative. Two years later, he’s dragging a leg up and down the court.

Well see how his career plays out and demars here

[Kurgan]

Well see how his career plays out and demars here

One-legged Kawhi is still a hundred times more valuable then 100% Defrozan though. If we're going to be wasting $30 million of cap I'd rather it be on a real superstar instead of the upjumped Lou Williams we're currently overpaying.

[slick'81]

One-legged Kawhi is still a hundred times more valuable then 100% Defrozan though. If we're going to be wasting $30 million of cap I'd rather it be on a real superstar instead of the upjumped Lou Williams we're currently overpaying.

Hey man demar is one of the last players i would of traded quitter for but it is what it is. Atleast hes a good guy to root for

[UZER]

Leonard is black. He's local to southern California. He has demanded a jury trial. His father was murdered, in that general area. By the sweat of his brow, Leonard, a black man, became a great success.

Nike is almost all white at the top. It is a rich company, and the executives and directors are all rich. They are outsiders, to that area. They became rich white men while sitting in padded chairs in air conditioned offices. Were any of their fathers murdered at car washes? Har har.

It's going to turn political. It already is. We live in a highly charged political atmosphere. And it's southern Cali, where the media fruitbats circle endlessly. Not southern Texas.

Who will the jury be? Leonard's lawyers will do everything they can to make the jury mostly black. Those who aren't black, they will try to make sure are low income. The Nike lawyers may not be able to do much about that, because of the jury pool.

You can see a mile away where this is headed. It's a perfect setup for Nike to get massacred. Race. Income. The accusation that some rich whites dudes stole from a black man. The whole damn mess.

If they go to trial, Leonard will walk into court with the sympathy of the jury, and he will never lose it. Not there. Not under those cir stances. Not among those people.

Truth? Justice? Facts? It's going to go political. There won't be anything Nike can do about that, or the judge can do about that, although I'm sure he will say the right words.

In this political atmosphere we live in, in front of that jury, do you want to go into court as the "rich white oppressors" from the multi-billion dollar company, up against the local black man who sweats for his living, and try to prove with legal facts that no, you evil white men did not steal the valuable property that he says he created with his own two callused black hands? Which way do you think that jury is going to decide? Especially when the jury knows full well that to you, the rich, white multi-billion dollar company, that logo represents hardly more than petty cash, and you can do perfectly fine without it.

In the current political atmosphere, under those cir stances, in that location, I think it's already decided. Or am I too cynical?

It won't go to trial. Nike will settle. They will give what the lawsuit demands. Without admitting wrongdoing, they will give Leonard the copyright to that logo. Then they will move on.

That's my prediction. For what it's worth. I'm such a cynic.

The actual legal case? Does it matter?

Well, if it did....

Nike's case will hinge on the testimony of one key person. It isn't Leonard.

Somebody at Nike will have done the very first work for Nike on that logo. Leonard's lawyers will find out who that person is, and will put him, or her, on the witness stand, under oath. They will ask questions.

"Now, Mr. Joedoe, you say you were the first graphic designer at Nike who worked on this KL2 logo?"

"Yes."

"Where did you get the idea, the basic concept, on which you based your work? I mean, what got you started on it?"

"I got started on it, based on a drawing we received from Kawhi Leonard."

If Joedoe gives that answer, in court under oath, Nike's case falls stone cold dead. The trial will be effectively over. Leonard wins.

Compare.... you write a story, a novel. You think it's a good story, that might even be worth publishing. But man, you can't write worth a damn.

You do submit the manuscript to a publisher, tho. He takes a look at it, and he likes the story. But he sees your writing is hopeless. He gives it to an editor to work on. The editor fixes the spelling and grammar, and the paragraphs, and the chapter divisions, and tidies up the mess. He maybe even does a little rewrite of some dialogue that's especially awful. He notices a serious problem, like, you've got a character in two different places at the same time. He calls you for what you want to do about that, and he fixes it. The editor spends more time on it than you did, and almost tears his hair out over it. Eventually, he gets it into shape where it could actually be published. He gives it back to the publisher, who takes a look at it, and still likes it. He decides to publish it.

Who's the author? It was the editor who did the work it took to turn the story into a book. Does that make him the author? Nope. The author is still the "story person," which is you. It's your name that goes on the cover of the book.

A story can be viewed as certain characters, placed in a certain arrangement.

For the KL2 logo, who is the "story person?" Who was it who placed those characters in that arrangement?

The KL2 "story" has the "characters" of the big letters K and L and the 2, and the arrangement is the hand or fingers idea. Who wrote that "story?" So to speak.

If all Nike can show is that they were the "editors" - no matter how much work that took - they will lose.

But if Nike can show they came up with some essential elements, at least, like it was their own idea to arrange the thumb and a finger in a letter L, they'll have an authorship claim and a chance to win. Legally. But still, the politics of it, ugh.

Joint authorship is possible. But if that happens, Nike loses, especially from not telling the copyright office there was a joint author, who should share in the copyright.

So, again, it goes to what that Nike artist would say on the witness stand, about where the basic "story" came from. Was it his? Or suggested by someone else at Nike? Or did it come from Leonard?

It would be a dramatic moment in the trial. What will he say? Must-see tv.

We'll never see it. This won't go to trial. I don't think so, anyway. Hope I'm wrong.

P.S. Nike knows, now, what their artist can truthfully say. Or they certainly ought to know, already.

Just hold on for one cotton pickin minute...

Isn’t this the same Nike that had an entire campaign supporting Kaepernick and made millions? Crusty old white men and all? You mean it’s really all about the money?

[spursparker9]

[apalisoc_9]

Crazy. Kawhi Lepnard best player in the NBA and hes not even 100%

I say thank you Dad Killer.

Dad killer second threepeat is a good blueprint for kawhi since hes never going to be 100%.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If the Spurs actually refused to give him the supermax on the first go around they might be he most incompetent front office in the world

Kawhi on one leg is dragging his team to a finals berth while the Spurs get one of the the biggest empty stats players on DeRozan and Aldridge who are massive playoff chokers that can’t fet tighter tjan a seventh seed without Kawhi.

I can guarantee you Pop regrets every single day since Kawhi left. The franchise is set back ten years.

[Dennis the Menace]

If the Spurs actually refused to give him the supermax on the first go around they might be he most incompetent front office in the world

Kawhi on one leg is dragging his team to a finals berth while the Spurs get one of the the biggest empty stats players on DeRozan and Aldridge who are massive playoff chokers that can’t fet tighter tjan a seventh seed without Kawhi.

I can guarantee you Pop regrets every single day since Kawhi left. The franchise is set back ten years.

While giving Patty “no pressure to perform” Mills and Pau Gasol absurd contracts....

[GreekSpursfan]

If the Spurs actually refused to give him the supermax on the first go around they might be he most incompetent front office in the world

Kawhi on one leg is dragging his team to a finals berth while the Spurs get one of the the biggest empty stats players on DeRozan and Aldridge who are massive playoff chokers that can’t fet tighter tjan a seventh seed without Kawhi.

I can guarantee you Pop regrets every single day since Kawhi left. The franchise is set back ten years.

Kawhi looked pretty great in the entire series with the Bucks outside of the last game and he was fine in game 1 of the finals. Lets not overblow things just to make our argument seem valid.
Also lets not forget that he's probably the most fresh star in the entire playoffs due to the load management situation and Toronto being stacked as helped with that.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't spend my money on expensive shoes like an idiot

I already knew you was a bum before you told me spending 80$ for a pair of shoes is "expensive"

[ceperez]

How Leonard trash talks:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/rap...6Xqw3621oFYwMQ

[J_Paco]

Crazy. Kawhi Lepnard best player in the NBA and hes not even 100%

I say thank you Dad Killer.

Dad killer second threepeat is a good blueprint for kawhi since hes never going to be 100%.

But he isn't the best player in the league.....

One great playoff run doesn't make you the best (otherwise Wade and Dirk were certainly the "best player in the league"). Only in this "trapped in the moment," YouTube, microwave society do we prop up a guy for playing "incredible" in a small sample size (after missing 20 games for "load management").

Durant and Antetokounmpo (even with his flaws) are just as good, impactful and (more) talented. Leonard has learned to use bully ball to compensate for his loss in explosion/bounce. His efficiency has tanked the further and further he's gotten each round too. Could fatigue/injury be playing a factor?

[J_Paco]

If the Spurs actually refused to give him the supermax on the first go around they might be he most incompetent front office in the world

Kawhi on one leg is dragging his team to a finals berth while the Spurs get one of the the biggest empty stats players on DeRozan and Aldridge who are massive playoff chokers that can’t fet tighter tjan a seventh seed without Kawhi.

I can guarantee you Pop regrets every single day since Kawhi left. The franchise is set back ten years.

Do you need a tampon or Kleenex?

Sure the greatest front - office the team has ever had is "incompetent" because they (allegedly) "lowballed" a disgruntled, malcontent (with a chronic/degenerative injury) that intentionally missed 73 games that same season.

Yes, they were in the wrong in that scenario....

They were "wrong" to (allegedly) hedge their bets so they wouldn't end up like the Bulls at the end of the Rose saga.....

[BillMc]

Do you need a tampon or Kleenex?

Sure the greatest front - office the team has ever had is "incompetent" because they (allegedly) "lowballed" a disgruntled, malcontent (with a chronic/degenerative injury) that intentionally missed 73 games that same season.

Yes, they were in the wrong in that scenario....

They were "wrong" to (allegedly) hedge their bets so they wouldn't end up like the Bulls at the end of the Rose saga.....

I doubt they lowballed him. They probably just explained why it would be useful regarding cap space if he'd be willing to leave a little on the table. David, TD, Manu and Tony all did that at times to help the team. Kawhi or his representatives either took genuine offense at the mere asking (if so he's a diva) or used it as a pretext to claim they were being disrespected to push their agenda. After all, this is the same guy/group who somehow was offended that the Spurs made him wait on his previous contract so they could add LMA (even though he actually got more money by waiting and another all star to play with). Stuff like this, is why when I hear the Spurs could never get Kawhi alone to have a real talk with him, make me think

[Maddog]

Do you need a tampon or Kleenex?

Sure the greatest front - office the team has ever had is "incompetent" because they (allegedly) "lowballed" a disgruntled, malcontent (with a chronic/degenerative injury) that intentionally missed 73 games that same season.

Yes, they were in the wrong in that scenario....

They were "wrong" to (allegedly) hedge their bets so they wouldn't end up like the Bulls at the end of the Rose saga.....

I doubt they lowballed him. They probably just explained why it would be useful regarding cap space if he'd be willing to leave a little on the table. David, TD, Manu and Tony all did that at times to help the team. Kawhi or his representatives either took genuine offense at the mere asking (if so he's a diva) or used it as a pretext to claim they were being disrespected to push their agenda. After all, this is the same guy/group who somehow was offended that the Spurs made him wait on his previous contract so they could add LMA (even though he actually got more money by waiting and another all star to play with). Stuff like this, is why when I hear the Spurs could never get Kawhi alone to have a real talk with him, make me think

Whatever the Spurs did they where operating in the dark and dealing with a group looking to capitalize on any issues.
Yes I think the Spurs made a few missteps- but end of the day- I don't think there was anything that would have changed the outcome. I still go back to the point- can someone give me an example of a similar injury as nephews?

[ZeusWillJudge]

It was his idea though? Nike just refined it? Tough call tbh

Not really. You can't patent OR copyright an idea. If Kawhi had paid a graphic design firm to create a logo for him, it would belong to him. He didn't. He sent an idea to Nike, who was creating a logo for products THEY sell, and Kawhi was paid millions to allow them to sell that gear. Unless the work is commissioned, a design belongs to the artist. And when you're an artist working on the payroll of a company, that usually means the intellectual property belongs to the company who pays your salary.

All the debate, all the ing "experts" here, don't add up to . The intellectual property laws are pretty clear and consistent. Kawhi even said in an interview that he sent them an idea, but they "made it perfect". Yep. That's what logo artists do. If he didn't want Nike to do that, he wouldn't have sent them the idea. Pretty much every company that contracts to have a logo designed has a meeting or two where they give the artist some idea of what they want. But Kawhi didn't commission Nike - he just sent them an idea for a logo.

Do a quick Google search on something like, "Can you patent an idea" or "Can you copyright an idea". Or... you can just stay here and listen to a guy who makes up, because he thinks it sounds smart. Nike may relent, or sell the logo to Kawhi, because it can't do them a whole lot of good now. But they don't have to. And they may well decide to send a message that they won't let any of "their" athletes shake them down in the future.

[BillMc]

Not really. You can't patent OR copyright an idea. If Kawhi had paid a graphic design firm to create a logo for him, it would belong to him. He didn't. He sent an idea to Nike, who was creating a logo for products THEY sell, and Kawhi was paid millions to allow them to sell that gear. Unless the work is commissioned, a design belongs to the artist. And when you're an artist working on the payroll of a company, that usually means the intellectual property belongs to the company who pays your salary.

All the debate, all the ing "experts" here, don't add up to . The intellectual property laws are pretty clear and consistent. Kawhi even said in an interview that he sent them an idea, but they "made it perfect". Yep. That's what logo artists do. If he didn't want Nike to do that, he wouldn't have sent them the idea. Pretty much every company that contracts to have a logo designed has a meeting or two where they give the artist some idea of what they want. But Kawhi didn't commission Nike - he just sent them an idea for a logo.

Do a quick Google search on something like, "Can you patent an idea" or "Can you copyright an idea". Or... you can just stay here and listen to a guy who makes up, because he thinks it sounds smart. Nike may relent, or sell the logo to Kawhi, because it can't do them a whole lot of good now. But they don't have to. And they may well decide to send a message that they won't let any of "their" athletes shake them down in the future.

I agree with you. But I am puzzled by why Kawhi's lawyers would file a lawsuit that has little/no chance of winning. Either there is more to it, or they think Nike just won't care and give them the logo back (in essence this is meant as leverage for negotiating the "return" of the logo), or Kawhi just ignores his own lawyers' advice and orders them to go ahead, in which case they just happily bill him on a case they know they'll lose.

[exstatic]

I agree with you. But I am puzzled by why Kawhi's lawyers would file a lawsuit that has little/no chance of winning. Either there is more to it, or they think Nike just won't care and give them the logo back (in essence this is meant as leverage for negotiating the "return" of the logo), or Kawhi just ignores his own lawyers' advice and orders them to go ahead, in which case they just happily bill him on a case they know they'll lose.

People sue all of the time without grounds. They just lose. I'm thinking that The Group is desperate for revenue streams since his quad seems to have not benefited from basically an entire season off, and 25% of the next one, too.

[loveforthegame]

I agree with you. But I am puzzled by why Kawhi's lawyers would file a lawsuit that has little/no chance of winning. Either there is more to it, or they think Nike just won't care and give them the logo back (in essence this is meant as leverage for negotiating the "return" of the logo), or Kawhi just ignores his own lawyers' advice and orders them to go ahead, in which case they just happily bill him on a case they know they'll lose.

This is a lengthy read but it walks through what Leonard filed and claims he has as proof.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/04/ka...rs-free-agency

Found this cliff notes version on real gm from poster crookedJ:

He started drawing this in college. Traced his hand and drew initials inside it.

He claims he sought design advice from his own contacts before Nike ever saw it. Circa 2011/2012.

Circa 2014 he and Nike agreed that he needed a unique logo for his products.

He sent them his existing logo that he designed. They made many suggestions and edits and he rejected them. This went back and forth and he has a paper trail.

In the end they agreed to use something that seems to be close to his original design.

He indicates that he has in writing the logo was his and for Nike's use on his Nike products during their agreement only.

He continued to use the logo on his own personal clothes, camps, appearances and such with no objection from Nike during their partnership.

His team brings to Nike's attention that his logo is being used illegitimately by third parties and Nike takes no action ( this is usually a problem in a trademark defense - not taking action to defend the mark)

Nike obtains trademark on the "Leonard logo" in April 2017 falsely claiming they designed it in 2014. Kawhi also received trademark protection for his logo and two other items in Nov 2017. ( this portion is very confusing - we will need to see what they have each trademarked to figure this part out)

Nike tells him to stop wearing the logo it in 2018 after he doesn't extend his contract with Nike. He wears it more and tell them to rescind their rights to it.

Kawhi told to cease and desist from wearing his logo in March 2019.

He wants a jury trial, and he is not seeking monetary damages. Seeking clarification from the court that he owns it.

Most opinions I’ve been reading believe it’ll never go to trial and that they’ll settle. Nike will hand the logo back to Leonard for a price and both will move on. It sounds like it’ll come down to time.

[loveforthegame]

DP. Sorry.

[BillMc]

This is a lengthy read but it walks through what Leonard filed and claims he has as proof.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/04/ka...rs-free-agency

Found this cliff notes version on real gm from poster crookedJ:




Most opinions I’ve been reading believe it’ll never go to trial and that they’ll settle. Nike will hand the logo back to Leonard for a price and both will move on. It sounds like it’ll come down to time.

Thanks for posting the info bro.

[Keepin' it real]

can someone give me an example of a similar injury as nephews?

Unlike Kawhi, Peter was still able to wipe his own ass and was ready to perform by the next episode.