A modern look at our roster construction and team needs heading into free agency

[Dejounte]

I like how pad300 classified positions in another thread. Credit to him. He broke it down and i would like to take it further:

pg = runs plays
sg = shooter/ secondary playmaker
sf = offball movement scorer
pf = post play/ guards weakside
c= defensive anchor/ rim protector



combo guards (pg/sg...runs plays + shooter/secondary playmaker):
--Dejounte
--Derrick White
--Lonnie

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 9/10

strict sg...shooter/ secondary playmaker:
--Mills
--Forbes
--Quinndary

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 2/10

wings (sg/sf...shooter/ secondary playmaker + offball movement scorer):
--DeMar
--Johnson
--Beli

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 5/10

strict sf (offball movement scorer):
--Bertans

Offense rating = 7/10
Defense rating = 3/10

big forward (sf/pf...offball movement scorer + post play/ guards weakside)
--Gay
--Samanic
--Moore

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 7/10

combo big (pf/c...post play/ guards weakside + defensive anchor/rim protector)
--Aldridge
--Metu

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 7/10
*Aldridge is shouldering the rating here

strict center (defensive anchor/ rim protector)
--Poetl
--Eubanks

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 8/10
*Poetl is shouldering the defense rating




Notes:

-It makes sense that the Spurs value combo guards. If we lose one to injury or free agency, its hard to replace players who know the Spurs playbook and also has the talent to run the plays
-wings (sg/sf) were our weakest link so its good they addressed that through the draft
-strict sf (Bertans) is probably our least valuable need. Bertans needs to be traded as he has proven he can't do anything beyond shooting.
-if i were to guess what free agent they would go for next, it would be either wing (sg/sf) or big forward (sf/pf). Wings is a weak part of our roster since we cant give DeMar much rest because Beli stinks and Johnson probably wont get minutes.
-Same can be said about big forward (sf/pf), we need someone to spell Gay when he needs rest and Samanic may not be ready (unless he takes the Kawhi route and just gets it) and Moore isnt that talented (though per Jabari the Spurs are still high on him)
-strict sg is our other weakest link. Though I guess theres still room for improvement between Forbes and Quinndary. Mills needs to GO

I made this thread because I'm tired of the "omg! We didnt address our biggest need! Who is going to guard Kawhi, LeBron, Durant in the long run!?!". The Spurs' answer is Samanic.

[Dejounte]

Would also like to add what my opinion would be, possible line-up configurations heading into next season:

Starters:
Combo guard (pg/ sg),
wing (sg/ sf),
big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/ c),
strict center (c)

In my opinion, this is the best line-up configuration we can put out in the beginning of the game to set the tone with our defense, and simply because this line-up may have the best synergy.

Optimal players used for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Wing: DeMar
Big forward: Gay (eventually Samanic)
Combo big: Aldridge
Strict Center: Poetl

The next line-up I would call "beautiful game" which I think would be the best line-up for ball movement and shooting. This would be our ideal bench.

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
strict sg (sg) OR combo guard (pg/sg),
wing (sg/sf),
strict sf OR big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/c)

Optimal players for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Derrick White
Strict SG: Forbes OR Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Wing: Belinelli (then eventually Keldon Johnson)
Strict SF: Bertans OR Big forward: Samanic (eventually Gay)
Combo big: Aldridge (then eventually Metu)

Third line-up configuration I would suggest is small ball, since that is popular these days

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Wing (sg/sf),
big forward (sf/pf)

Optimal line-up with this configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte
Combo guard: White
Combo guard: Lonnie
Wing: DeMar (then eventually Keldon)
Big forward: Gay (then eventually Samanic)

[mudyez]

"modern"

Someone didn't get the memo about positionless basketball being the future of this sport.

[Dejounte]

"modern"

Someone didn't get the memo about positionless basketball being the future of this sport.

So you're saying future...and i'm saying modern. We're not there yet.

Here's a popular line-up config. many posters here suggest for a starting line-up:

Combo guard (pg/sg)
Combo guard (pg/sg)
Wing (sg/sf)
Big forward (sf/pf)
Combo big (pf/c)

Optimal line-up:
Combo guard: Murray
Combo guard: White
Wing: DeMar
Big forward: Gay
Combo big: Aldridge

My problem with this is there are way too many ball handlers that focused on the first 8 minutes of the game. Also i'm just not sure if Aldridge's body can effectively bang with the strict centers of the league anymore.

With those starters, the bench would then look like this:

Combo guard (pg/sg)
Strict sg
Wing (sg/sf)
Strict sf (since i'm sure neither Samanic or Metu are ready to be the first off the bench yet)
Strict center

So the optimal players coming off the bench would be:

Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Strict SG: Either Mills or Forbes
Wing: Belinelli
Strict SF: Bertans
Strict C: Poetl

The balance between the starters and the bench doesnt seem to fit. The bench would have to rely on Lonnie to guide the second team and run the plays, but im not sure hes there yet. The other option would be to have a strict sg, or a player that clearly has no business running plays, in Forbes or Mills to run the second group. Then you have terrible defense between Bertans and Beli, which you would hope to address by having our rooks replace their minutes or signing a free agent that would take theirs.

[nyspurguy]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

[nyspurguy]

Is there any way we can get Tobias Harris?......
(How the mighty has fallen)

[lmbebo]

Is there any way we can get Tobias Harris?......
(How the mighty has fallen)

will get max from philly, at least double the mle. no real way without creating space

[Bonner]

Look all you want, PATFO will sign a combo guard and an ancient forward and call it an offseason as always

[bluebellmaniac]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

A cokehead and a guy who will have a really short NBA career? Why?

[rogcl1]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

Sure, a cokehead and a 7 footer with foot problems . A sure recipe for success.

[John B]

Lakers don’t worry me because 5 guys can get tired easily, until they figure to sign their 3rd Star and build a deep bench with 23 mil. Still Spurs need to address how to defend Davis, Jokic, Town, Porzingis, Capela. Poeltl needs help. Are they bringing Milutinov?

[pad300]

Lakers don’t worry me because 5 guys can get tired easily, until they figure to sign their 3rd Star and build a deep bench with 23 mil. Still Spurs need to address how to defend Davis, Jokic, Town, Porzingis, Capela. Poeltl needs help. Are they bringing Milutinov?

It's a good question. It's highly influenced by available money (currently the full MLE + vet min contracts) and roster spots (currently 1, would have to trade to make more) (assuming Gay is resigned). Assuming we can make a trade or cut Metu to add a roster spot, the tradeoff looks like this.
a) Milutinov (at at least $4M/year) + maybe another low-level vet (with the remainder of the MLE)
vs.
b)A full MLE Wing + vet min big
or
c) a full MLE Big + vet min wing

Hard to call without strong knowledge of how the FO asses Milutinov and the various markets. What I'd try, is use Milutinov's rights + a player to make a roster spot, pushing us to B or C. As I think there are going to be some pretty decent bigs for the vet min (Noah, Boban, ???) as they are undervalued right now, I would go with B to produce the strongest team next year...

[spurraider21]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

[rogcl1]

It's a good question. It's highly influenced by available money (currently the full MLE + vet min contracts) and roster spots (currently 1, would have to trade to make more) (assuming Gay is resigned). Assuming we can make a trade or cut Metu to add a roster spot, the tradeoff looks like this.
a) Milutinov (at at least $4M/year) + maybe another low-level vet (with the remainder of the MLE)
vs.
b)A full MLE Wing + vet min big
or
c) a full MLE Big + vet min wing

Hard to call without strong knowledge of how the FO asses Milutinov and the various markets. What I'd try, is use Milutinov's rights + a player to make a roster spot, pushing us to B or C. As I think there are going to be some pretty decent bigs for the vet min (Noah, Boban, ???) as they are undervalued right now, I would go with B to produce the strongest team next year...

Interesting to see the possible paths to filling out the teams needs. First of all I just don't think that Mills will be traded. or if there is a market for him. I do think some form of a true small forward and a big or combo c/pf with emphasis on the c, are the teams most glaring needs. How to get there, that is the question.
I just don't think breaking up the mle will do the trick. A given I believe is that Gay will be resigned with Bird rights.
Next.

1.Sign sf with full mle.
2. Package rights to Milutinov and some asset like Belinelli for a big that could be used in situational matchups.
3. Not sure if spurs will be able to secure a decent player through the trade route so option B might be the most viable path. I do believe Marco should be the odd man out. no D, old, injury prone. A trade involving him and Milutinov might net a usable player.

[JeffDuncan]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

He's invented a modern lineup for Modern Times.



And yes, Bertans is a Power Forward.

[Dejounte]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

I was reluctant to label him as a SF, dude is a major liability as a PF and he doesnt have the game as a PF...either offensively or defensively. Bertans is a specialist in every definition of the word. This is why I think he either needs to become more well-rounded or needs to be used as a trade chip so he can go. Otherwise, unless hes satisfied with his minutes... I dont foresee him getting much more next year

These reasons are especially why he didnt get minutes in the playoffs.

[Dejounte]

To further elaborate...Bertans is a unique case. Has the height of a power forward, offensive skills of a small forward, defensive quickness of a center, strength of a point guard. Bertans only role on this team should be one where we are trying to build on a lead when we're already up and trying to bury the other team by 20 points. He simply cannot be relied on to get stops. And for this fact, he will not be getting many minutes ever because of his lack of versatility.

[Dejounte]

He's invented a modern lineup for Modern Times.



And yes, Bertans is a Power Forward.

Talk basketball with me. Explain more why he is. Discussions like this are what i love about forums.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

I don't ever see Bol Bol ever being able to play more 60 games a season and more than 20 minutes a game.

[K...]

Bertans is a tweener who sucks at both his natural positions. Might as well call him a tall small guard since that's what his skills correspondence to. The dude had talent, but he's hard to give minutes to. Good reason to trade him to a team that night figure him out.

It's funny because when Kyle left we assumed pafto had an idea about using bertans, but I guess he got poetled out of his role lol

[GreekSpursfan]

Bertans showed promise the previous season and Pop thought he could take the D.Green role, thats why he let Danny go imo but he let him and all of us down this season. Yes he's a tweener but if he could hit the 3 in a consistant basis he would be a plus but somehow he lost it.

[JeffDuncan]

Talk basketball with me. Explain more why he is. Discussions like this are what i love about forums.

To further elaborate...Bertans is a unique case. Has the height of a power forward, offensive skills of a small forward, defensive quickness of a center, strength of a point guard. Bertans only role on this team should be one where we are trying to build on a lead when we're already up and trying to bury the other team by 20 points. He simply cannot be relied on to get stops. And for this fact, he will not be getting many minutes ever because of his lack of versatility.

Your post is a pretty good summary of him. Defensively, he lacks muscle mass. NBA officiating still permits heavy contact in some cases, and Bertans can't handle that. Players like Milsap and Jockitch will simply push him aside.

Bertans' major skill is his 3pt shooting. Unless the Spurs intend to shoot a higher volume of 3s next season, he should be traded. I think. He shouldn't be so difficult to trade. According to average attempts, every other team in the league values 3pt shooting more than the Spurs do.

[Fusternino]

Just here to remind everyone that KA was that elusive guy who could legit defend both forward positions.

Thanks.

[Dejounte]

Just here to remind everyone that KA was that elusive guy who could legit defend both forward positions.

Thanks.

No doubt about it. But his ceiling was low and he probably saw his best year with us. Samanic has a chance to be a lot better.

[Dejounte]

Could we be looking at another Richard Jefferson / Kawhi Leonard scenario where Samanic takes the reins from Gay halfway through the season?