Per Woj, Kent Bazemore Being Traded

[gambit1990]

Why would you want that?

[EricB]

In fact, if ATL is looking for 1) A back up PG & 2) A vet that will be a positive influence on all the youth, I wonder if they would do Mills+Beli+1st for Evan Turner?

Mills. Isn’t. Getting. Traded.

[kobyz]

Why didn't we offer Bertans and Bellinelli for Baze?

[DAF86]

I feel like ST got collectively more silly. It’s a salary dump. You aren’t trading Mills and getting a useful player. You are only getting an expiring deal at best.

Sorry you don’t love Turner; neither do I. But ATL needs leadership, a back up PG (why they traded for Turner) and has the ability to absorb Mills remaining years.

I don’t know what’s so hard to understand tbh..No matter who you dump Mills to, you are going to have to give up a first rounder; whether you get a player back or not.

Mills and Belinelli >> Turner

I would even argue that each of those Spurs individually > Turner

What's the point of salary dumping semi-serviceable regular season players while giving up a 1st round pick? Mills contract/situation isn't so bad to give up a 1st round pick just to get rid of him. Sorry, but there's no reason to spin that trade into something not completely re ed, tbh.

[DAF86]

Why didn't we offer Bertans and Bellinelli for Baze?

Because Bertans alone >>> Bazemore

[kobyz]

Because Bertans alone >>> Bazemore

bertans sucks, even he said he's not worth the money spurs gave him

[DPG21920]

Mills and Belinelli >> Turner

I would even argue that each of those Spurs individually > Turner

What's the point of salary dumping semi-serviceable regular season players while giving up a 1st round pick? Mills contract/situation isn't so bad to give up a 1st round pick just to get rid of him. Sorry, but there's no reason to spin that trade into something not completely re ed, tbh.

What? You are missing the point entirely hence you acting silly.

Mills and Beli are better than Turner, yes. However, Mills and Beli aren’t better than Lonnie/Forbes/Murray/White. Removing Beli/Mills opens up minutes for those guys that are better than Mills/Beli/Turner. This is not hard to comprehend. At all.

Beyond that, knowing you want to give those guys minutes (Lonnie/Forbes/Murray/White), removing a guy with a higher/multi-year contract is why you pay the first.

That would instantly allow SA NEXT season, to have immense flexibility mostly under their control to re-shape the team via free agency/draft.

I really don’t get how you can’t see this basic concept tbh..

[DPG21920]

Also, not living in a bubble, there are only so many teams A) with contracts like this B) In a great cap position next year to take on 13M & C) In need of a back up vet PG.

So while ya, I would like someone better than Turner, it’s not realistic since there aren’t a ton of teams that meet ABC in this fictional scenario.

[DAF86]

What? You are missing the point entirely hence you acting silly.

No, I'm not missing . Stop underrating other people's capacity to comprehend stuff son. It's not a good look, tbh. Especially not when you are out there spouting less than conventional opinions.

Mills and Beli are better than Turner, yes. However, Mills and Beli aren’t better than Lonnie/Forbes/Murray/White. Removing Beli/Mills opens up minutes for those guys that are better than Mills/Beli/Turner. This is not hard to comprehend. At all.

Beyond that, knowing you want to give those guys minutes (Lonnie/Forbes/Murray/White), removing a guy with a higher/multi-year contract is why you pay the first.

That would instantly allow SA NEXT season, to have immense flexibility mostly under their control to re-shape the team via free agency/draft.

I really don’t get how you can’t see this basic concept tbh..

You don't need to be giving up ing first round picks to play your best guys, tbh.

Just man up, stop being a hypocrite, get over your "culture" thing and play your best guys without caring if the feelings of your veterans get hurt.

And let's say Pop won't do this simple thing. You don't really need to give up a first round pick to dump either of Beli (in fact, we might get a 2nd for his shooting and expiring 6 millions) or Mills (like you said previously, a team with cap space and in need of a veteran guard who can shoot would consider taking him without asking for any further asset).

I really don’t get how you can’t see this basic concept tbh..

[DAF86]

bertans sucks, even he said he's not worth the money spurs gave him

Well, how much you think Bertans sucks, Bazemore sucks even more.

[Mugen]

Also, not living in a bubble, there are only so many teams A) with contracts like this B) In a great cap position next year to take on 13M & C) In need of a back up vet PG.

So while ya, I would like someone better than Turner, it’s not realistic since there aren’t a ton of teams that meet ABC in this fictional scenario.

I understand what you're saying but again Turner is the rare guy in the league that might actually make the Spurs worse than Patty/Beli (two guys I hate tbh) and would take away touches from Dejounte/DWhite/Lonnie (also lol @ including Bryn in your list).....

I'd rather just keep that 1st rounder to target a better fit/player. I also don't think anybody worth their salt is coming to the Spurs in free agency for a long, long time so I don't care too much about Fatty's extra year...that's probably where we differ most tbh.....

[DAF86]

Also, not living in a bubble, there are only so many teams A) with contracts like this B) In a great cap position next year to take on 13M & C) In need of a back up vet PG.

So while ya, I would like someone better than Turner, it’s not realistic since there aren’t a ton of teams that meet ABC in this fictional scenario.

Again: who ing cares about Turner? It's giving up the first round pick that is awfully re ed.

You are contradicting yourself son. Is it a salary dump or not? If it is, then why do you care what player we get?

[timvp]

I agree with DPF that the Hawks would request a first rounder to absorb Mills' contract (if not two). Would I do it? Tbh, I'd trade a first rounder only if it created salary cap space this year AND cleared a logged jam (so preferably not get back a high salary player like Turner). Clearing a log jam by itself isn't enough ... unless DeRozan is also traded and the Spurs are opening up salary cap space next summer.

[DPG21920]

No, I'm not missing . Stop underrating other people's capacity to comprehend stuff son. It's not a good look, tbh. Especially not when you are out there spouting less than conventional opinions.

This doesn’t even make sense. You not being able to articulate the basics of the logic of what I proposed is what leads me to believe you can’t comprehend it.

You can disagree with it if you express you understand the “why” but you never did that and with you I’m not assuming anything

You don't need to be giving up ing first round picks to play your best guys, tbh.

You aren’t giving up a first just to free up minutes for your best players. That is ONE aspect of the deal, but not the only.

Just man up, stop being a hypocrite, get over your "culture" thing and play your best guys without caring if the feelings of your veterans get hurt.

You believe that will happen? Not just in the nba in general, but with Spurs? Mills and Beli played minutes, even in the playoffs. There is a clear logjam and limited roster spots too. Freeing up at least one roster spot would be a big deal IMO, along with guaranteeing a for sure path to minutes for the younger and way higher upside youth.

We just saw ATL do this for that exact reason. Many teams do. Sure, they didn’t give up a pick, but that is because the deal was net neutral and they already have a ton of cap space anyways.

And let's say Pop won't do this simple thing. You don't really need to give up a first round pick to dump either of Beli (in fact, we might get a 2nd for his shooting and expiring 6 millions) or Mills (like you said previously, a team with cap space and in need of a veteran guard who can shoot would consider taking him without asking for any further asset).

I really don’t get how you can’t see this basic concept tbh..

Pop has never done that simple thing and on top of that there is a major logjam now. Beyond that, the other aspect is giving SA a ridiculous amount of flexibility next year. If SA waits, which they could, and needed that cap space next season they could use a first then and dump Mills. But either way they are using the first and this way gets you two other benefits: opens a roster spot (or two if you buyout ET) and clears the path for minutes with the better younger player.

All of that for one first is worth it to me. ET is really not relevant to the equation in the real world.

Beyond that your silly logic of “team may need a back up PG and give you something!” For Mills is the only “less than conventional” thing in this exchange.

ATL already got their back up PG (ET) for Baze. We would be asking them to take on 13M in salary next year when ET has none. Hence the need for an asset.

I dont doubt Beli might fetch a 2nd rounder in a second deal, but if he allows SA to match salaries, keep the outgoing assets to one pick vs multiple to dump Mills, then I am ok with that since it kills so many birds with one stone.

I know it’s unlikely to happen, but I don’t get all the hubbub about it unless you are really truly confident Mills/Beli will be buried in the rotation. If that is the case? Sure, just wait until next year and waive/stretch Mills if you need more cap space.

I am not sold on Mills making that much money to be Pondexter. You hardly EVER see the 12-15 man making 13M - you just don’t pay that player that much money.

[DPG21920]

I understand what you're saying but again Turner is the rare guy in the league that might actually make the Spurs worse than Patty/Beli (two guys I hate tbh) and would take away touches from Dejounte/DWhite/Lonnie (also lol @ including Bryn in your list).....

I'd rather just keep that 1st rounder to target a better fit/player. I also don't think anybody worth their salt is coming to the Spurs in free agency for a long, long time so I don't care too much about Fatty's extra year...that's probably where we differ most tbh.....

ET would not be playing. MIlls/Beli due to role on team/POP would be; that’s the point. ET would ride the bench because Pop has no loyalty to ET unlike Mills/Beli.

[DPG21920]

I understand what you're saying but again Turner is the rare guy in the league that might actually make the Spurs worse than Patty/Beli (two guys I hate tbh) and would take away touches from Dejounte/DWhite/Lonnie (also lol @ including Bryn in your list).....

I'd rather just keep that 1st rounder to target a better fit/player. I also don't think anybody worth their salt is coming to the Spurs in free agency for a long, long time so I don't care too much about Fatty's extra year...that's probably where we differ most tbh.....

Did you see what Atl did with their cap space and how many extra first they got for taking on just one year of salary? It’s not just about who will come; especially if you already have a good team. Sometimes it can net you big assets.

[DPG21920]

I agree with DPF that the Hawks would request a first rounder to absorb Mills' contract (if not two). Would I do it? Tbh, I'd trade a first rounder only if it created salary cap space this year AND cleared a logged jam (so preferably not get back a high salary player like Turner). Clearing a log jam by itself isn't enough ... unless DeRozan is also traded and the Spurs are opening up salary cap space next summer.

DPA+ more like it.

Im fine with wanting cap space this year, but I think 1 first to ensure a cleared up rotation, with the most upside and ability to add more (since you get an extra roster spot) + the ability for cap space next year is worth it.

I am assuming in this type of scenario DeRozan is also moved or not extended which means a likely opt out next season.

[kobyz]

Well, how much you think Bertans sucks, Bazemore sucks even more.

No, stop being a homer, it's disgusting!

[DAF86]

This doesn’t even make sense. You not being able to articulate the basics of the logic of what I proposed is what leads me to believe you can’t comprehend it.

You can disagree with it if you express you understand the “why” but you never did that and with you I’m not assuming anything





You aren’t giving up a first just to free up minutes for your best players. That is ONE aspect of the deal, but not the only.



You believe that will happen? Not just in the nba in general, but with Spurs? Mills and Beli played minutes, even in the playoffs. There is a clear logjam and limited roster spots too. Freeing up at least one roster spot would be a big deal IMO, along with guaranteeing a for sure path to minutes for the younger and way higher upside youth.

We just saw ATL do this for that exact reason. Many teams do. Sure, they didn’t give up a pick, but that is because the deal was net neutral and they already have a ton of cap space anyways.



Pop has never done that simple thing and on top of that there is a major logjam now. Beyond that, the other aspect is giving SA a ridiculous amount of flexibility next year. If SA waits, which they could, and needed that cap space next season they could use a first then and dump Mills. But either way they are using the first and this way gets you two other benefits: opens a roster spot (or two if you buyout ET) and clears the path for minutes with the better younger player.

All of that for one first is worth it to me. ET is really not relevant to the equation in the real world.

Beyond that your silly logic of “team may need a back up PG and give you something!” For Mills is the only “less than conventional” thing in this exchange.

ATL already got their back up PG (ET) for Baze. We would be asking them to take on 13M in salary next year when ET has none. Hence the need for an asset.

I dont doubt Beli might fetch a 2nd rounder in a second deal, but if he allows SA to match salaries, keep the outgoing assets to one pick vs multiple to dump Mills, then I am ok with that since it kills so many birds with one stone.

I know it’s unlikely to happen, but I don’t get all the hubbub about it unless you are really truly confident Mills/Beli will be buried in the rotation. If that is the case? Sure, just wait until next year and waive/stretch Mills if you need more cap space.

I am not sold on Mills making that much money to be Pondexter. You hardly EVER see the 12-15 man making 13M - you just don’t pay that player that much money.

I literally said "a team with cap space and in need of a veteran guard who can shoot would consider taking him without asking for any further asset" not that they "may give you something", tbh. And I'm the one having problem with comprehension.

Dude, giving up a first to salary dump Mills isn't worth it. Some of the last Spurs' first round picks: Kawhi, Cory, Anderson, Murray, White, Walker. All worth a lot more than a 12/15 millions per year salary dump.

I think you may get to trade Mills without giving up a pick (or maybe just a 2nd round one) but if you can't, I would rather not trade him at all than to give up a first round pick. I value that pick a lot more than dumping a Patty Mills that will he off the books in a couple of years.

[DAF86]

No, stop being a homer, it's disgusting!

I suggest you doing a little research. Not an extensive one, just a little is enough.

[DPG21920]

I literally said "a team with cap space and in need of a veteran guard who can shoot would consider taking him without asking for any further asset" not that they "may give you something", tbh. And I'm the one having problem with comprehension.

Dude, giving up a first to salary dump Mills isn't worth it. Some of the last Spurs' first round picks: Kawhi, Cory, Anderson, Murray, White, Walker. All worth a lot more than a 12/15 millions per year salary dump.

I think you may get to trade Mills without giving up a pick (or maybe just a 2nd round one) but if you can't, I would rather not trade him at all than to give up a first round pick. I value that pick a lot more than dumping a Patty Mills that will he off the books in a couple of years.

That is reasonable. I am not opining using a first to just dump Mills for the sake of it though. I agree not using a first just for that. But if that first would allow SA to be better this year, allow the youth to develop more and lead to a truly good free agent/re-shaping the team next year too? That’s where my head is at.

I know Timvp wants capspace this year for that to be worth it but capspace next year is equally valuable to me.

[kobyz]

I suggest you doing a little research. Not an extensive one, just a little is enough.

I know more about Bertans than you, he's hardly an NBA material no matter how much meaningless regular season threes he's having, he's robotic, soft, slow minded player, that should never see one minute of playoff basketball...

[DAF86]

I know more about Bertans than you, he's hardly an NBA material no matter how much meaningless regular season threes he's having, he's robotic, soft, slow minded player, that should never see one minute of playoff basketball...

Are you implying you watched more Euro Bertans than me? Maybe. Although I've watched enough Euro Bertans to know what he's capable of when given confidence and a steady role, tbh.

You calling him "robotic", "slow minded", "soft" gives me the impression that you are a bit of a hater though. I could easily debunk each and every one of those remarks you made about him, but I don't feel like getting into so much trouble.

Anyway, you are missing the point: Bazemore isn't as good as you think he is. By any objective metric, he was a far less efficient player than Bertans on pretty much every category last season.

[tonight...you]

Are you implying you watched more Euro Bertans than me? Maybe. Although I've watched enough Euro Bertans to know what he's capable of when given confidence and a steady role, tbh.

You calling him "robotic", "slow minded", "soft" gives me the impression that you are a bit of a hater though. I could easily debunk each and every one of those remarks you made about him, but I don't feel like getting into so much trouble.

Anyway, you are missing the point: Bazemore isn't as good as you think he is. By any objective metric, he was a far less efficient player than Bertans on pretty much every category last season.

And keep in mind that debating with that old boy would be the equivalent of arguing with a Dollar Store Teddy Ruxpin made in a country you've never heard of.

[kobyz]

Are you implying you watched more Euro Bertans than me? Maybe. Although I've watched enough Euro Bertans to know what he's capable of when given confidence and a steady role, tbh.

You calling him "robotic", "slow minded", "soft" gives me the impression that you are a bit of a hater though. I could easily debunk each and every one of those remarks you made about him, but I don't feel like getting into so much trouble.

Anyway, you are missing the point: Bazemore isn't as good as you think he is. By any objective metric, he was a far less efficient player than Bertans on pretty much every category last season.

I watched him some also when he played in Spain, even in euroleague play he was very underwhelming and not an impact player, he was in and out of the rotation even there...
And I'm not thinking bazmore is something special, he's average player and not very consistent, but still he's at least 2 level above Bertans, don't looked only on the numbers, Bertans is in perfect situation and still can't have real impact...
We could really use this type of game winning skill when we face Lakers next season: