Woj: Westbrook to Houston for CP3

[John B]

Missing out on Morris, can Spurs PATFO help facilitate CP3 trade to Miami (or any team) with a 1st round pick and get Winslow or Adebayo?

[cjw]

Missing out on Morris, can Spurs PATFO help facilitate CP3 trade to Miami (or any team) with a 1st round pick and get Winslow or Adebayo?

Great question:

1.) Miami is hardcapped so basically would need to shed salary in any trade
2.) OKC is only going to look to shed salary to get below tax, and there is the complication that CP3 cannot be packaged with another player in a trade for 60 days
3.) Spurs are far enough below apron where they can take on additional salary in a trade, but limited to:
- 175% of outgoing salary plus $100k if sending $6.53mm or less
- Outgoing salary plus $5mm if sending up to $19.6mm
- 125% of outgoing salary if above that

So as parameters, OKC would only send out Westbrook and the Heat would need to send out at least his salary equivalent plus a bit to account for roster holds if going below 12 players. They’re currently at 14.

So one that works as a strawman:

OKC gets James Johnson, Courtney Lee and Belineli (expiring) and Justin Jackson - save $1.3 million
MIA gets CP3 - save $7.3 million
SAS gets Olynyk - costs $4.0 million more this year
DAL gets Dragic and Metu - costs $4.6 million more this year

OKC: gets off CP3 for expiring contracts, some of which may have value at the deadline. Jackson could be replaced or supplemented by someone more exciting. Should help get them below tax

MIA: turn their crap sandwich into a better player

SAS: Olynyk is a decent floor spaced but significantly overpaid, and not expiring for another year. Spurs would free up a roster spot in the process plus get draft pick compensation to facilitate. I’d want at least one first rounder in that deal. Could also swap Olynyk for Winslow; basically same salary and length remaining

DAL: upgrade at PG and Doncic’s countryman

[poopbox]

at people saying this is a lateral move.

Chris Paul was damaged goods that could barely be counted on to last a full playoff run. Westbrook is a massive upgrade just by virtue of the fact that he can be counted on to stay healthy.

The rockets want to shoot a lot of 3's and they traded for arguably the worst volume 3 point shooter in the league...

So for this to work they have to change their offense pretty drastically...

Do you think harden is going to be okay with that? i don't...

Whenever Chris had the ball Harden was just kind of standing around doing nothing...not sure how that changes now that westbrook is in houston and he has th ball...

So it seems like you run the offense like Harden wants to and you are okay with a terrible shooter jacking up catch and shoot 3's from harden all game...

Or change it to suit westbrook and harden is just standing around watching westbrook do stuff...

I wouldn't want either one of those alternatives...

[mo7888]

Great question:

1.) Miami is hardcapped so basically would need to shed salary in any trade
2.) OKC is only going to look to shed salary to get below tax, and there is the complication that CP3 cannot be packaged with another player in a trade for 60 days
3.) Spurs are far enough below apron where they can take on additional salary in a trade, but limited to:
- 175% of outgoing salary plus $100k if sending $6.53mm or less
- Outgoing salary plus $5mm if sending up to $19.6mm
- 125% of outgoing salary if above that

So as parameters, OKC would only send out Westbrook and the Heat would need to send out at least his salary equivalent plus a bit to account for roster holds if going below 12 players. They’re currently at 14.

So one that works as a strawman:

OKC gets James Johnson, Courtney Lee and Belineli (expiring) and Justin Jackson - save $1.3 million
MIA gets CP3 - save $7.3 million
SAS gets Olynyk - costs $4.0 million more this year
DAL gets Dragic and Metu - costs $4.6 million more this year

OKC: gets off CP3 for expiring contracts, some of which may have value at the deadline. Jackson could be replaced or supplemented by someone more exciting. Should help get them below tax

MIA: turn their crap sandwich into a better player

SAS: Olynyk is a decent floor spaced but significantly overpaid, and not expiring for another year. Spurs would free up a roster spot in the process plus get draft pick compensation to facilitate. I’d want at least one first rounder in that deal. Could also swap Olynyk for Winslow; basically same salary and length remaining

DAL: upgrade at PG and Doncic’s countryman

If you subs ute Winslow for olynyk we'd have to do that. Even then, I think we have to give next years 1st to get it done.

[JeffDuncan]

Have people seen this?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...lable-For-Sale

Want to buy part of the Thunder?

[gambit1990]

cp3 is a buyout away from at least a conference finals.

[buujness]

Great question:

1.) Miami is hardcapped so basically would need to shed salary in any trade
2.) OKC is only going to look to shed salary to get below tax, and there is the complication that CP3 cannot be packaged with another player in a trade for 60 days
3.) Spurs are far enough below apron where they can take on additional salary in a trade, but limited to:
- 175% of outgoing salary plus $100k if sending $6.53mm or less
- Outgoing salary plus $5mm if sending up to $19.6mm
- 125% of outgoing salary if above that

So as parameters, OKC would only send out Westbrook and the Heat would need to send out at least his salary equivalent plus a bit to account for roster holds if going below 12 players. They’re currently at 14.

So one that works as a strawman:

OKC gets James Johnson, Courtney Lee and Belineli (expiring) and Justin Jackson - save $1.3 million
MIA gets CP3 - save $7.3 million
SAS gets Olynyk - costs $4.0 million more this year
DAL gets Dragic and Metu - costs $4.6 million more this year

OKC: gets off CP3 for expiring contracts, some of which may have value at the deadline. Jackson could be replaced or supplemented by someone more exciting. Should help get them below tax

MIA: turn their crap sandwich into a better player

SAS: Olynyk is a decent floor spaced but significantly overpaid, and not expiring for another year. Spurs would free up a roster spot in the process plus get draft pick compensation to facilitate. I’d want at least one first rounder in that deal. Could also swap Olynyk for Winslow; basically same salary and length remaining

DAL: upgrade at PG and Doncic’s countryman

Thank you for your breakdown of the trade rules and cap situations.

But why in the would the Spurs want Olynyk? Complete waste of assets and time, to be frank. The only reason for the Spurs to be involved in a trade like this would be to get a significant upgrade, so it would have to be Winslow. Or, find it in their guts to trade Mills for James Johnson. Otherwise, they would be making a move without moving the needle.

[spurraider21]

its a complete desperation move by HOU... sure they wanted to move off CP3 but when considering fit/defense, westbrook is barely even an upgrade for him. plus OKC got a lot of picks.

for OKC, they were a treadmill team with russ's triple doubles, so nice to move off him and get a bunch of picks. if they can re-route paul for more value, they will have done well for themselves in a vacuum

[Fusternino]

OKC won every part of this trade. Will go down as worse than the Kawhi trade, tbh.

[cjw]

Thank you for your breakdown of the trade rules and cap situations.

But why in the would the Spurs want Olynyk? Complete waste of assets and time, to be frank. The only reason for the Spurs to be involved in a trade like this would be to get a significant upgrade, so it would have to be Winslow. Or, find it in their guts to trade Mills for James Johnson. Otherwise, they would be making a move without moving the needle.

Yeah, I was trying to get a first rounder routed back to the Spurs. Olynyk is a decent floor spacer, but agree not my favorite use of Beli’s contract.

Mills/Johnson is more interesting. Basically, try constructing a trade where (1) CP3 is dealt alone, (2) OKC and Heat shed money and (3) Spurs don’t take on more than $5mm extra (give or take depending on money going out)

[Sean Cagney]

I feel bad for CP3. He is so desperate for a ring and now has to end up on a team in rebuild mode. He should have stayed on the Clippers.

Agreed.....

[JuneJive]

Westbrook kinda has a fit in the Moreyball system as he feeds the paint and corners a lot.

Staggerring his and Hardens minutes should do the trick in having an offensive dynamo yet again.

[cjw]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2019/7/16/20695381/houston-rockets-russell-westbrook-james-harden


Pretty damning numbers here on Russ and the horrible fit. But we all knew this

[gambit1990]

rockets are the second best team in the league now.

if kawhi gets hurt, they're champs.

[Mr. Body]

rockets are the second best team in the league now.

if kawhi gets hurt, they're champs.

Last year proved to me they have no chance. Harden is the least clutch player since Karl Malone. He was just at the end of this last series and now they added another terrible clutch performer.

[Chillen]

I wouldn't count Houston out but Harden is going to have to play unselfish in clutch situations and get his teammates involved more. He usually just makes some flashy move and chucks up a hero 3. If Houston wants to win the NBA le they have to go all in and play smart the same way the Toronto Raptors did with Kawhi. It's got to be about the team and the stars take the shots when needed instead of trying to stat pad. They could turn the corner this time and be hungry and have a great season.

[sasaint]

Last year proved to me they have no chance. Harden is the least clutch player since Karl Malone. He was just at the end of this last series and now they added another terrible clutch performer.

Swapping CP3 for Westchuck is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. CP3 was clutch and unselfish compared to Westchuck. Rockets are doubling down on selfish, unclutch stat-padders.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I wouldn't count Houston out but Harden is going to have to play unselfish in clutch situations and get his teammates involved more. He usually just makes some flashy move and chucks up a hero 3. If Houston wants to win the NBA le they have to go all in and play smart the same way the Toronto Raptors did with Kawhi. It's got to be about the team and the stars take the shots when needed instead of trying to stat pad. They could turn the corner this time and be hungry and have a great season.

I watched Harden hold the ball and dribble out entire shot clocks, over and over, and chuck it toward the rim at the buzzer. I've seen selfish play before, but never anything to compare to that. It was like Harden was the only player on the offensive end for long stretches. I swear he doesn't care about winning, if he's not the one doing it.

I did see a story today that CP3 will at least be starting the season with OKC. A free agent who signs a new contract can't be traded until Dec. 15, so I'm sure the pool of potential matching salaries is limiting the chances of making a deal before then.

[gambit1990]

the ST doubt in regards to the rockets is pretty silly. and that’s coming from someone who hates harden.

[hombre]

Houston are front runners from the coach down.

[exstatic]

the ST doubt in regards to the rockets is pretty silly. and that’s coming from someone who hates harden.

Harden has huge usage numbers, and hardly moves at all when the ball is not in his hands.

Westbrook has huge usage numbers, hardly moves without the ball, can’t shoot, and has a knee that has had multiple surgeries on it and is a ticking time bomb.

There is only one ball.

[Harry Callahan]

Thats what happens when you murder your business partners, allegedlly supposidly.


Clay Bennet is a mob boss.

Sounds like a case of Arkancide. That used to happen a lot in the 1990s.

[baseline bum]

I watched Harden hold the ball and dribble out entire shot clocks, over and over, and chuck it toward the rim at the buzzer. I've seen selfish play before, but never anything to compare to that. It was like Harden was the only player on the offensive end for long stretches. I swear he doesn't care about winning, if he's not the one doing it.

I did see a story today that CP3 will at least be starting the season with OKC. A free agent who signs a new contract can't be traded until Dec. 15, so I'm sure the pool of potential matching salaries is limiting the chances of making a deal before then.

Westbrook is even worse tbh.

[baseline bum]

Harden has huge usage numbers, and hardly moves at all when the ball is not in his hands.

Westbrook has huge usage numbers, hardly moves without the ball, can’t shoot, and has a knee that has had multiple surgeries on it and is a ticking time bomb.

There is only one ball.

[Trueblood]

the ST doubt in regards to the rockets is pretty silly. and that’s coming from someone who hates harden.

I don't clarify it as doubt, it's an educated guess.

Harden is a ball dominant player who thrives in isolation, doesn't pass or play defense, pads his stats at the expense of winning and has a history of choking when it matters most.

Westbrook is a ball dominant player who thrives in isolation, doesn't pass or play defense, pads his stats at the expense of winning and has a history of choking when it matters most.

The only difference is their name.

Either one would thrive on a team filled with three and D players with high basketball iq that could get them the ball in good situations and spread the floor with their shooting. But together this just doesn't seem like a combination that will work (on paper at least). Maybe we're wrong, but the evidence points against it.

Houston's owner reminds me of a bad fantasy manager that drafts off names instead of numbers.

Edit: While I recognize that Westbrook gets enough assist to get those triple doubles he loves so much his poor shooting percentage proves that he shoots far more than he should and doesn't pass enough. So while I digress to the fact that he does pass I believe he only does enough of it to pad his stats.