Why Democrats are Pushing Socialism

[Winehole23]

I presume you're not a poster or propagandist like some here. What's your take on your own OP?

[ElNono]

There's no "truth" there. It's the same old tired "bootstrap" myth that if you just work hard enough, the riches will flow. Conservative lips get tighter than a drum when the clear "truth" is brought up that this country had much more balanced wealth distribution and a lower poverty level when the richest Americans were taxed at a 70 percent marginal rate. This is the "great" time period Trump appeals to and his base supposedly wants to return to.

Back to debunking the bootstrap myth. Truth: Most people never rise above the economic bracket into which they were born. "The study's takeaway, according to Chetty and Hendren, is the environment one is raised in determines his or her economic mobility."

https://www.newsweek.com/why-rich-st...ay-poor-363611

Why does this happen? It's easy enough to infer kids born into wealthier families have much more stable rearing environments (which improves cognitive development, even at the pre-natal level) and money for things like tutors, private schools, and brand name colleges. Furthermore, wealthy families have connections that allow for their children to get a leg up on the compe ion through all manners of nepotism and cronyism. The event that should've exploded the ty bootstrap myth was that college admissions scandal.

More "truth." To afford the national average monthly rent/mortgage cost, you need to make 22.00 an hour. The federally mandated minimum wage is 7.25 hr. Even the state with the highest minimum wage (where cost of living is higher) is only about 14 an hour. The conserva response to this is that minimum wage jobs are there for teenagers who want some pocket money or job experience and not intended to be a career. This is horse . We're a service economy now, so more and more people have no choice but to rely on minimum wage restaurant and cashier jobs as their means of income (in the "great America," the job market was dominated by relatively high paying factory work that you could get fresh out of high school). Combine this truth with truth number 1, and you can see how immensely difficult upward mobility is.

The only people who trumpet the bootstrap myth are those that were fortunate enough to buck the odds, and I find it a highly arrogant position to say, "Well, if I could do it, so can you. Just work harder!" There's plenty of janitors and fast food workers working plenty hard, but they won't find the same opportunity path as the bootstrapper who speaks in Horatio Alger clichés. Every person's situation is different.

Well, now, now... don't get facts in here, we're talking about a YouTube video

[rmt]

rmt

Asking you to explain what you're pushing forward as the truth is a legit ask.

What's the truth of the vid you posted, as you see it?

Didn't I already say that I swallowed (agreed with) the video - hook, line and sinker.

[rmt]

Oh well polls had Hillary defeating Trump. We all know how that turned out . Time will tell. The only way I don't see Bernie winning is if the delegates or DNC screw Bernie again. My biggest fear is Elizabeth Warren. Her talk is good but her track record is all over the place.

And Biden will win any state (the South) with a significant black electorate. Neither Bernie nor Warren appeal to blacks.

[Winehole23]

Didn't I already say that I swallowed (agreed with) the video - hook, line and sinker.

Vomiting the bait back up whole suggests you did not digest it.In your own words, what did you agree with?Can you be specific? Hit the high points for us.Are you afraid to provide your own commentary on your own OP?

[rmt]

Vomiting the bait back up whole suggests you did not digest it.In your own words, what did you agree with?Can you be specific? Hit the high points for us.Are you afraid to provide your own commentary on your own OP?

I agree with everything, all the sentiments in the entire video - how much plainer can I get?

[Winehole23]

I agree with everything, all the sentiments in the entire video - how much plainer can I get?

You could mention the things mentioned in the vid, point out what you agreed with.

So far we have no evidence you even watched it.

[ElNono]

Vomiting the bait back up whole suggests you did not digest it.In your own words, what did you agree with?Can you be specific? Hit the high points for us.Are you afraid to provide your own commentary on your own OP?

You're asking for critical thinking, introspection and intellectual growth from somebody that's clearly dogmatic and proudly ignorant about both the topic and it's history. You're going to get more dogma and perfunctory analysis. C'est la vie.

[Winehole23]

You're asking for critical thinking, introspection and intellectual growth from somebody that's clearly dogmatic and proudly ignorant about both the topic and it's history. You're going to get more dogma and perfunctory analysis. C'est la vie.

I like to give people a sporting chance. Sometimes rmt is more generous with her own thoughts.

Not here, it seems.

[Winehole23]

CC and Chris keep saying Rep. Omar is anti Semitic, but cannot pull a single quote.

Pure handwaving, like here.

[Spurtacular]

Because they have nothing & want to share it.

Troof bomb

[rmt]

You could mention the things mentioned in the vid, point out what you agreed with.

So far we have no evidence you even watched it.

You want me to re-watch the video, and post individually the things mentioned in the video and say I agree with x, y, and z points? - sorry I'm not wasting my time doing that. I already said that I agree with all the sentiments in the video.

Why would I post a video I hadn't even watched? To get even more crucified by some of you?

[rmt]

And there is evidence that I watched it. My second post was that I recommend The Millionaire Next Door that she mentions in the video.

[Winehole23]

You want me to re-watch the video, and post individually the things mentioned in the video and say I agree with x, y, and z points? - sorry I'm not wasting my time doing that. I already said that I agree with all the sentiments in the video.

Why would I post a video I hadn't even watched? To get even more crucified by some of you?

I'm just asking questions about what you watched. It's odd you consider having something to say about what you posted a crucifixion.

If you can't relate one or two or three things you liked about it, maybe you weren't really paying attention.

[Winehole23]

I thought you wanted to talk about it; my bad.

[spurraider21]

You'd want $1k a month to Zuckerberg, Gates and Bezos? Don't think that'd go down well.

but you're ok with slashing their taxes by millions

god forbid another 12k

[Trill Clinton]

Trump s doing everything they can to avoid discussing El Paso.

This.

[Winehole23]

And there is evidence that I watched it. My second post was that I recommend The Millionaire Next Door that she mentions in the video.

Ok, what's that about?

[rmt]

Ok, what's that about?

It's like the bus driver she mentions who saves (invests) $1 million for his kids' education - low skilled, low paying job but ends up the millionaire next door.

[Winehole23]

It's like the bus driver she mentions who saves (invests) $1 million for his kids' education - low skilled, low paying job but ends up the millionaire next door.

Cool story.

How did he/she do it and how does that relate to your initial post in this thread?

[midnightpulp]

That's communism, and implicitly includes both an economic and political component. And yeah, it's misused all the time, really an education problem. However, it would be silly to overlook a number of generations indoctrinated about the socialist boogeyman, tbh.

Communism is a completely stateless society. Socialism, which is supposed to be an intermediate step toward Communism, still requires a centrally planned economy. Both are ideologies in any event, so the boogeyman is a bit justified. But the re ation comes from how Hannity et al are labeling the ideas of the Democrats, which is just a bog standard mixed economy model that Hannity himself grew up in and that republicans also promote (they just simply want the tax dollars going toward their beloved military) as "evil Socialism."

[boutons_deux]

Communism is a completely stateless society. Socialism, which is supposed to be an intermediate step toward Communism, still requires a centrally planned economy.

Both are ideologies in any event, so the boogeyman is a bit justified. But the re ation comes from how Hannity et al are labeling the ideas of the Democrats, which is just a bog standard mixed economy model that Hannity himself grew up in and that republicans also promote (they just simply want the tax dollars going toward their beloved military) as "evil Socialism."

Repugs/Fox/rightwing hate media, all tools of, some financed by, Capitalists, have framed, yet again, the idea of socialism to slime and slander what the progressives are talking about.

First, no Dem is talking about naked, text-book, state-owns-everything, oppressive socialism, but democratic socialism following the many SUCCESSFUL examples around the world, nearly all of those coutries MORE successful than USA's predatory, sociopathic unregulated Capitalism.

Not one of those, after DECADES of development, has proven to be a path towards Soviet-style Communism.

Even at its very best period, 1945-1975, America was not a mixed economy and 30%+ Americans were enslaved (no freedom) in poverty. Some progress was made, War on Poverty, end of Jim Crow, white man's rights extended to non-whites.

But since 1975, the oligarchy/VRWC/Capitalists launched and won the Class War on the non-oligarchy, degrading America back to the 1920s or earlier Robber Baron period.

America is ed and un able, and don't give me any "swinging penudulum" bull . The pendulum is stuck in favor of the oligarchy.

[pgardn]

I think Nono has already been through this. We are socialist already. We would have to define all aspects of socialism and compare with other countries. Difficult. The definition below allows me to take one aspect and that is the idea of social ownership. We do this. We have to do this. So rmt must be upset because our system of highways need to be privatized as well as water routes for commerce.

Yeah. I can see the red team going for the destruction of the flow of goods within our economy.
And I want to personally own a public stop light as a checkpoint. My little business. I will decide on the timing, nothing but good comes from privatization.






Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,^[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.^[11] Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.^[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,^[13] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.^[5][14][15]

[Thread]

Repugs/Fox/rightwing hate media, all tools of, some financed by, Capitalists, have framed, yet again, the idea of socialism to slime and slander what the progressives are talking about.

First, no Dem is talking about naked, text-book, state-owns-everything, oppressive socialism, but democratic socialism following the many SUCCESSFUL examples around the world, nearly all of those coutries MORE successful than USA's predatory, sociopathic unregulated Capitalism.

Not one of those, after DECADES of development, has proven to be a path towards Soviet-style Communism.

Even at its very best period, 1945-1975, America was not a mixed economy and 30%+ Americans were enslaved (no freedom) in poverty. Some progress was made, War on Poverty, end of Jim Crow, white man's rights extended to non-whites.

But since 1975, the oligarchy/VRWC/Capitalists launched and won the Class War on the non-oligarchy, degrading America back to the 1920s or earlier Robber Baron period.

America is ed and un able, and don't give me any "swinging penudulum" bull . The pendulum is stuck in favor of the oligarchy.

But, they said the word.

They got to stand by it,,,the old man will see to it.

[pgardn]

But, they said the word.

They got to stand by it,,,the old man will see to it.

Its not a little bit embarrassing for the red team that people don’t understand it?
You seem like a well read person and actually do understand that socialism already is entrenched to a certain level.
The blue team is beating you guys in pointing out these types of fallacies in THEMSELVES.
Got to be a little bit disappointed.

Thread is a fighter. He would be fine with ignorance on his team if it gives him a W. In fact ignorance is probably preferable.
There is no shame because you got a W. The red team understands the S word will conjure this up.
Just like the blue team and the occasional misuses of the R (racism) word. But the blue team will grapple with the real definition.